How Many Fighter Jets Does China Produce Annually? Concerns arise about China surpassing the US Air Force in fighter jet production

[j_hungary]

All airborne assets will be unmanned and fully autonomous flown by AI.

I don't know what you know about AI........

But until human can find a way to physically limit AI, AI isn't that much useful in military technology.

 

[Alter_Ego]

You can't train 1000 pilot in 4 years.....then you need to have 1000 trainer to have that 1000 pilot put into training...Which makes "adding 1000 planes a year" quite pointless.

You are talking about a 4-year aviation degree with another 3 to 4 years flight training.

And US made more than 222 plane a year, that number only counted how many plane US was taking up, US also sell jet internationally......

Many of them will simply replace older aircrafts right ?

 

[Alter_Ego]

I think this is just the beginning.

China has yet to produce large number of modern fighters for export.

Until recently, i think, aircraft engine was a major bottle neck. Now that chinese engine are reasonably good, the production number will be ramped up.

 

[j_hungary]

Many of them will simply replace older aircrafts right ?

You still need to retrain the pilot to fly these new aircrafts.

You can't put a F-7 pilot on a J-16 directly.........In case of the Ukrainian MIG pilot trained to F-16 standard, they need 1 year to retrain. Again, usually it takes 3.

Another point being, China do not have 3000 old aircraft to replace to begin with.......

 

[Nuffle]

And you think China doesn't train pilots? Nope China recently shortened the training of the pilots and took students right from High school accelerated the training of pilots and assigned them to their brigades for further training

Chinese fighter pilot training was very similar to USAF training in the early 1960s. So only now has the PLAAF started to train like a modern air force. The USAF is testing pilots to go straight from the T-6 Texan, move to the simulator and go to the F-35. This is what an F-35 pilot himself said, and he has a YouTube channel: Hasard Lee

 

[Michael]

Being a pilot means you have to be trained on a plane.

I am not disputing the fact that China have 1000 pilot, I am saying China can't train 1000 pilot EVERY 4 YEARS considering it take up to 7 (4 years for an aviation degree + 3 years flight school) to become a fighter pilot, which mean you need a bigger student pool with a lot more resource than just 1000 trainer to train 1000 pilot every 4 years.

Your military expertise is vast, but your knowledge of China leaves a lot to be desired.

PLA rules: Only personnel are allowed to wait for equipment, Equipment is not allowed to wait for personnel.------"只能人等装备，不能装备等人！"

I don't know how many fighter pilots China actually has. But I can give you one piece of information you don't know.

Many years ago, the PLA worked with many high schools in China to establish pilot classes in those schools. They select the best students (15 years old) to enter the pilot class (40+ students/class). From the time they enter the pilot class, these students begin basic military exercise and learning.
These students (18 years old) graduate from high school and go directly to Air Force/Naval Aviation University. They skip the basic military training and go straight to their specialized knowledge. Their college graduation exam is to fly a fighter jet alone. Upon graduation they are assigned directly to the military where they are given intensive training to strengthen their skills in handling fighter jets.

This is a program that the PLA has been working on for many years now. I don't know how many pilots they have trained in total, but it must be well over 250 pilots per year. The high school my son used to attend was one of those in the program, so I am more than aware of the program.

However, the program is only one of the PLA pilot recruitment programs.

Sichuan Mianyang High School. PLAAF presented the school with a decommissioned fighter jet, which was used to attract students to enroll in the school's pilot class.

 

[j_hungary]

Your military expertise is vast, but your knowledge of China leaves a lot to be desired.

PLA tradition. Only personnel are allowed to wait for equipment, not equipment for personnel.

I don't know how many fighter pilots China actually has. But I can give you one piece of information you don't know.

Many years ago, the PLA worked with many high schools in China to establish pilot classes in those schools. They select the best students (15 years old) to enter the pilot class (40+ students/class). From the time they enter the pilot class, these students begin basic military exercise and learning.
These students (18 years old) graduate from high school and go directly to Air Force/Naval Aviation University. They skip the basic military training and go straight to their specialized knowledge. Their college graduation exam is to fly a fighter jet alone. Upon graduation they are assigned directly to the military where they are given intensive training to strengthen their skills in handling fighter jets.

This is a program that the PLA has been working on for many years now. I don't know how many pilots they have trained in total, but it must be well over 250 pilots per year. The high school my son used to attend was one of those in the program, so I am more than aware of the program.

However, the program is only one of the PLA pilot recruitment programs.

Dude, and you have 2 wrong assumptions.

1.) EVERYONE got into training graduated as air force pilot
2.)The Cadet program means anything.

My brother is a Marine Aviator (He flew F-18 and AV-8 with the USMC and with the RN in exchange) Basic training in the Airforce mean nothing, not even the army standard, you can teaches pilot cadet all day and try to indoctrinate them and trying to have them get into the pilot program, but that doesn't mean A.) They are going to get their place) B.) They are going to graduate.

There are several stages to train a pilot

-Basic Military Training (To get basic military life)
-Physical Training (To prepare for Flight School)
-Ground School (To prepare for Flight School)
-Flight School (To get aviation certification with Trainer aircraft)
-Specialisation Training (to decide whether you fly Fighter Jet, Transport or Drone)

The pipeline is not exactly the same as "High School Cadet" the US Civil Air Patrol have their own high school cadet corps .That does not mean US have access to millions of pilots........

Youth in Cadet Program

www.gocivilairpatrol.com

That does not make these high school student "Pilot" in the air force, not even pilot for general aviation (so you can fly Cessna). If you want to be an air force pilot, you need to go thru all 5 stages with the Air Force, and they train you ground up, and that takes several year and muilti-million dollars training, You have to be really naive to think these student cadet pilot leads anywhere.........

 

[Michael]

Dude, and you have 2 wrong assumptions.

1.) EVERYONE got into training graduated as air force pilot
2.)The Cadet program means anything.

My brother is a Marine Aviator (He flew F-18 and AV-8 with the USMC and with the RN in exchange) Basic training in the Airforce mean nothing, not even the army standard, you can teaches pilot cadet all day and try to indoctrinate them and trying to have them get into the pilot program, but that doesn't mean A.) They are going to get their place) B.) They are going to graduate.

There are several stages to train a pilot

-Basic Military Training (To get basic military life)
-Physical Training (To prepare for Flight School)
-Ground School (To prepare for Flight School)
-Flight School (To get aviation certification with Trainer aircraft)
-Specialisation Training (to decide whether you fly Fighter Jet, Transport or Drone)

The pipeline is not exactly the same as "High School Cadet" the US Civil Air Patrol have their own high school cadet corp. That does not mean US have access to millions of pilots........

Youth in Cadet Program

www.gocivilairpatrol.com

That does not make these high school student "Pilot" in the air force, not even pilot for general aviation (so you can fly Cessna). If you want to be an air force pilot, you need to go thru all 5 stages with the Air Force, and they train you ground up, and that takes several year and muilti-million dollars training, You have to be really naive to think these student cadet pilot leads anywhere.........

I don't know if it's a matter of linguistic expression or ideology. It seems you didn't get my point.

What I was expressing was. China is training pilots in large numbers and at a rapid pace. These people are already fighter pilots by the time they graduate from college, and they get their fighter pilot certification exams.
It's just that they are at a lower level at this point. Perhaps, we can describe them as junior fighter pilots, but they really are already fighter pilots.
After actually entering the army, they gradually upgrade to intermediate/advanced fighter pilots through intensive training to further improve their maneuvering abilities.
In other words, they are already fighter pilots at the age of 22. PLA military research institutes have also streamlined the pilot training process by using technology to reduce the difficulty of manually maneuvering the aircraft.
We know from many interviews that most of the young mature pilots of the J20 and J15 are now only 24-25 years old.

This is like the fact that there is no comparison between car drivers of a few decades ago and those of today.

 

[j_hungary]

I don't know if it's a matter of linguistic expression or ideology. It seems you didn't get my point.

What I was expressing was. China is training pilots in large numbers and at a rapid pace. These people are already fighter pilots by the time they graduate from college, and they get their fighter pilot certification exams.
It's just that they are at a lower level at this point. Perhaps, we can describe them as junior fighter pilots, but they really are already fighter pilots.
After actually entering the army, they gradually upgrade to intermediate/advanced fighter pilots through intensive training to further improve their maneuvering abilities.
In other words, they are already fighter pilots at the age of 22. PLA military research institutes have also streamlined the pilot training process by using technology to reduce the difficulty of manually maneuvering the aircraft.

This is like the fact that there is no comparison between car drivers of a few decades ago and those of today.

lol, nobody, I repeat, NOBODY was already a fighter pilot when they graduate from college, if you do that in China, then all I can say is the quality of your pilot is going to be shit.........

Even the prestigious USAF Academy in Colorado Spring, the people who commissioned as 2LT and graduated pilot training program only able to fly T-38 Talon (T-8 Texas now) They aren't trained for Fighter jet, that was done in squadron level when they were assigned a squadron.

People who graduated from flight school in college have the equivalent of Commerical Pilot License with Jet certification, people who graduate from cadet program have nothing.

It doesn't matter how streamline you are, you aren't going to be able to mass train fighter pilot, because it take 3 fighter aircraft to train a single fighter pilot, 1 for ground school, 1 for flight school and 1 for maintenance rotation, which mean if you train 1000 pilot in the 4 years Airforce Academy, you are going to need 3000 fighter aircraft to train that 1000 pilot. Because for you have "Pilot Candidate" coming over from different stage in that 4years, some are in ground school, some are in flight school and you need to leave 1 for the maintenance rotation.

 

[Michael]

lol, nobody, I repeat, NOBODY was already a fighter pilot when they graduate from college, if you do that in China, then all I can say is the quality of your pilot is going to be shit.........

Even the prestigious USAF Academy in Colorado Spring, the people who commissioned as 2LT and graduated pilot training program only able to fly T-38 Talon (T-8 Texas now) They aren't trained for Fighter jet, that was done in squadron level when they were assigned a squadron.

People who graduated from flight school in college have the equivalent of Commerical Pilot License with Jet certification, people who graduate from cadet program have nothing.

It doesn't matter how streamline you are, you aren't going to be able to mass train fighter pilot, because it take 3 fighter aircraft to train a single fighter pilot, 1 for ground school, 1 for flight school and 1 for maintenance rotation, which mean if you train 1000 pilot in the 4 years Airforce Academy, you are going to need 3000 fighter aircraft to train that 1000 pilot. Because for you have "Pilot Candidate" coming over from different stage in that 4years, some are in ground school, some are in flight school and you need to leave 1 for the maintenance rotation.

Actually, these pilots aren't bad. You're not sure about the Chinese management and teaching model.

These students, at the age of 15, begin militarized training and management and are exposed to some basic military education. They are part of the military from that point on. formal military training begins at 18 when they enter college. Simulator training, trainer training, are all done at this stage. The university final exam is to fly a real fighter jet.
Only, at this point, they could only skillfully maneuver one type of fighter jet. They could use some basic tactical maneuvers. More advanced tactical maneuvers and more models of fighter jets would be intensively trained after they actually entered the army.

If you ask any random Chinese person who has received a complete Chinese-style education, you'll know about Chinese-style education. It is completely different from American style education.

Today, most of the pilots who are in regular contact with US forces in the East and South China Seas are trained in this model. So far, they have not shown any unprofessional behavior.

In China, commercial pilots belong to a completely different system, and they are completely different from the military pilot system. Even when military pilots retire, they have to be retrained and retested to get a commercial pilot's license. They are not a system.
The Civil Aviation Flight Academy of China (CAFC) is the training and testing organization for commercial pilots in China, and it's in my city!

 

[j_hungary]

Actually, these pilots aren't bad. You're not sure about the Chinese management and teaching model.

These students, at the age of 15, begin militarized training and management and are exposed to some basic military education. They are part of the military from that point on. formal military training begins at 18 when they enter college. Simulator training, trainer training, are all done at this stage. The university final exam is to fly a real fighter jet.
Only, at this point, they could only skillfully maneuver one type of fighter jet. They could use some basic tactical maneuvers. More advanced tactical maneuvers and more models of fighter jets would be intensively trained after they actually entered the army.

If you ask any random Chinese person who has received a complete Chinese-style education, you'll know about Chinese-style education. It is completely different from American style education.

Today, most of the pilots who are in regular contact with US forces in the East and South China Seas are trained in this model. So far, they have not shown any unprofessional behavior.

Again, it's one thing to fly a Gulfstream 550 after one of these certification, it's another thing to fly aircraft like F-16 or F-35 in combat. It's like saying I finished basic infantry training and I am proficient with Air Assault. What's the different I mean, aren't both just assault the enemy with your guns?

And as I mentioned before, it wouldn't matter how early you start your pilot training, it wouldn't make you an airforce pilot until you went thru the 5 stages, and you aren't starting in 15 or you are to believe you are pulling 9 Gs when you are 15??

This is not about "Chinese Style Education" or "Western Style Education" This is about resource put into training a pilot, if you have $2000 and 10 months, you can hire a cessna and train to be a private pilot and fly solo on a 4 seater Cessna, you need 7 years of training, thousand of aircraft, and hundred of flight hours EACH, to be a fighter pilot. You aren't talking about Mike in Friends doing this

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You need an actual piano to train a pianist, and you need an actual fighter jet to train a fighter pilot. Something you don't get access to at a very early age. You can start ground school and flight principal as early as you want, but you can't be a pilot without getting on one of those jet......

 

[Michael]

Again, it's one thing to fly a Gulfstream 550 after one of these certification, it's another thing to fly aircraft like F-16 or F-35 in combat. It's like saying I finished basic infantry training and I am proficient with Air Assault. What's the different I mean, aren't both just assault the enemy with your guns?

And as I mentioned before, it wouldn't matter how early you start your pilot training, it wouldn't make you an airforce pilot until you went thru the 5 stages, and you aren't starting in 15 or you are to believe you are pulling 9 Gs when you are 15??

This is not about "Chinese Style Education" or "Western Style Education" This is about resource put into training a pilot, if you have $2000 and 10 months, you can hire a cessna and train to be a private pilot and fly solo on a 4 seater Cessna, you need 7 years of training, thousand of aircraft, and hundred of flight hours EACH, to be a fighter pilot. You aren't talking about Mike in Friends doing this

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You need an actual piano to train a pianist, and you need an actual fighter jet to train a fighter pilot. Something you don't get access to at a very early age. You can start ground school and flight principal as early as you want, but you can't be a pilot without getting on one of those jet......

We're talking about the Chinese model of military aircraft pilot training, not the American model of training.

In the past, Chinese fighter pilots usually started with a series of trainers, then J6/J7, J8, J10 ...... This escalates up step by step, and by the time they get to flying the J20, they are no longer young.
Now they start learning to fly trainers proficiently at military school and are required to be familiar with the J10 fighter and must be able to fly the J10 and complete basic tactical maneuvers on their own by the time they graduate from military school.
When they enter the military they learn advanced tactical maneuvers in the J10 and fly the J20. after 2-3 years they are proficient in advanced tactical maneuvers in the J20.
In the past, due to financial factors, there were very few airplanes and the army couldn't afford to do intensive training. Now, the Chinese army has been training very intensively in recent years. Many residents living near military airports are used to these situations.

According to feedback from pilots, China's main fighters are now very easy to maneuver. More of their energy is spent on analyzing and judging data rather than maneuvering the aircraft. It takes very little time for them to learn how to maneuver these planes, and more time is spent studying and learning tactics.

It's like: the time and effort it takes to learn to drive an old manual transmission car. The time and effort it takes to learn to drive a Tesla. There is no comparison between the two.

 

[j_hungary]

We're talking about the Chinese model of military aircraft pilot training, not the American model of training.

In the past, Chinese fighter pilots usually started with a series of trainers, then J6/J7, J8, J10 ...... This escalates up step by step, and by the time they get to flying the J20, they are no longer young.
Now they start learning to fly trainers proficiently at military school and are required to be familiar with the J10 fighter and must be able to fly the J10 and complete basic tactical maneuvers on their own by the time they graduate from military school.
When they enter the military they learn advanced tactical maneuvers in the J10 and fly the J20. after 2-3 years they are proficient in advanced tactical maneuvers in the J20.
In the past, due to financial factors, there were very few airplanes and the army couldn't afford to do intensive training. Now, the Chinese army has been training very intensively in recent years. Many residents living near military airports are used to these situations.

Okay,let's talk about Chinese model for Pilot Training.

How many trainers aircraft China process to begin with? Because everyone whether they are fighter pilot or transport pilot would have to been in one of those for hundreds of hours during initial flight stage. How many J-10, J-20, or J-whatever you can spare to get those candidate air time? And then how many fighter aircraft do the Chinese have? You need at least 1/3 of your stock dedicated to train Chinese Pilot?

I have taken class in flight principal in college and I have a private Pilot License, that does not mean I can go to Royal Australia Air Force and US Air Force and request to be seated in a F-16 or F-18, those training are different, it didn't matter where you are, you can't train to be a pilot with verbal instruction, attend class and so on, and you aren't putting a 15 years old in a J-10 and start tactical training.........

This is not something you can "Clamp" into, it taken years of actual practice and actual flight instruction to be a military pilot, again, if you count, I can be called a pilot, as I can fly a Piper PA-28 by myself. but I am in no way, shape the same league as my brother, who was qualified to fly T-34, F-18 and AV-8B. Those are different in term of pilot training. And no, this is not a Chinese or Western things, and I spend 20 + year in China and study in Hong Kong and Shenzhen, so I know how Chinese Education system works......

 

[Michael]

Okay,let's talk about Chinese model for Pilot Training.

How many trainers aircraft China process to begin with? Because everyone whether they are fighter pilot or transport pilot would have to been in one of those for hundreds of hours during initial flight stage. And then how many fighter aircraft do the Chinese have? You need at least 1/3 of you stock dedicated to train Chinese?

I have taken class in flight principal in college and I have a private Pilot License, that does not mean I can go to Royal Australia Air Force and US Air Force and request to be seated in a F-16 or F-18, those training are different, it didn't matter where you are, you can't train to be a pilot with verbal instruction, attend class and so on, and you aren't putting a 15 years old in a J-10 and start tactical training.........

This is not something you can "Clamp" into, it taken years of actual practice and actual flight instruction to be a military pilot, again, if you count, I can be called a pilot, as I can fly a Piper PA-28 by myself. but I am in no way, shape the same league as my brother, who was qualified to fly T-34, F-18 and AV-8B. Those are different in term of pilot training. And no, this is not a Chinese or Western things, and I spend 20 + year in China and study in Hong Kong and Shenzhen, so I know how Chinese Education system works......

The army has a variety of dedicated trainers such as the JL8, JL10, etc. The J10AS is also one of the trainers. There used to be the J6/J7, which are now largely retired. These airplanes provide basic flight training for cadets.

Cadets do not receive pilot training at the high school level (15-18 years old). They only receive basic military training and they are still taught primarily in cultural classes.
The advantage of this model is that they have already passed the physical and political tests and do not need to be screened for university entrance. At the same time, they are already sufficiently willing to do so themselves. Ordinary high school students entering military schools need 3-6 months of military acclimatization training, which they do not need. They are top students at the high school level, so their college culture program is very intensive and a lot of time is spent training.

When my son was in high school, he was in the top class. They took all three years of high school in their freshman year of high school and spent the remaining two years preparing for the top universities in China.

In the past, the military mandated that fighter pilots be able to fly many types of fighters, and the military tested pilots by that ability. Now, pilots are no longer required to have this ability. It is sufficient that they are very proficient in flying one mainstream fighter in a variety of tactical maneuvers.
This is a change in the system. At the same time, technology has made fighter jets easier to maneuver, which is a technological change.

As a matter of fact, most of the mainstream fighter pilots in China are now around 25 years old.

 

[j_hungary]

The army has a variety of dedicated trainers such as the JL8, JL10, etc. The J10AS is also one of the trainers. There used to be the J6/J7, which are now largely retired. These airplanes provide basic flight training for cadets.

Cadets do not receive pilot training at the high school level (15-18 years old). They only receive basic military training and they are still taught primarily in cultural classes.
The advantage of this model is that they have already passed the physical and political tests and do not need to be screened for university entrance. At the same time, they are already sufficiently willing to do so themselves. Ordinary high school students entering military schools need 3-6 months of military acclimatization training, which they do not need. They are top students at the high school level, so their college culture program is very intensive and a lot of time is spent training.

When my son was in high school, he was in the top class. They took all three years of high school in their freshman year of high school and spent the remaining two years preparing for the top universities in China.

In the past, the military mandated that fighter pilots be able to fly many types of fighters, and the military tested pilots by that ability. Now, pilots are no longer required to have this ability. It is sufficient that they are very proficient in flying one mainstream fighter in a variety of tactical maneuvers.
This is a change in the system. At the same time, technology has made fighter jets easier to maneuver, which is a technological change.

As a matter of fact, most of the mainstream fighter pilots in China are now around 25 years old.

Dude, again, you can't study a program and become a military pilot.

It's about hands on experience, you first start with basic flight training, which you train with one of those propeller aircraft, you log a hundred hours on that thing and then you graduate to advance flight training either single jet or turbo prop trainer, and you get another 250 hours in that thing, and finally you get to train with dual seater fighter jet.

You don't get to start from early age and there are only limited flight hours you can get a year, because there is a limited trainer aircraft and instructor available. So that flight training alone is going to set you back 5 to 7 years.

What your son did in High School is nothing if that's only 6 months, that's not even able to finish ground school (International IATA standard - 10 months, China is included) and your son is not a pilot and cannot get on a J-10 and fly it, no matter how advance your technology is, otherwise as I said, if your son is allow to sit in a J-10 after college, then I can only say quality of PLAAF pilot is less than questionable.......

It seems to me you have absolutely no idea how aviation works, it does not work with civil aviation (again, universal standard) and it certainly wouldn't work in military aviation as that is multiple time specialise than civ-air.

And only half the job for Fighter Pilot is push the button, the other half is to build you up to withstand physics, so you don't get vertigo when you have no reference point and so you can pull +/-9 G turns, those training takes time and aircraft familiarisation takes time, and it's naive to assume you can just jump from one platform to another without re-training and re-certification, this is not how aviation works. Otherwise, everyone who plays Microsoft Flight Sim could be a pilot, you don't need to sit in a A320 to actually certify to fly it........