Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[falcon34]

Whats that black circle on RV for.

 

[TallGuy]

Iran's experience with Israel has limited use for us.
Iran carried out a mass conventional strike. Since it has no real air arm to speak of. We do. The kind of strikes they employ BM for, we use aircraft.
Our main focus for BM, outside of corps level fires, is the nuclear role and for that Iranian penetration rate of about 1/3 to 1/2 is unacceptable.

sir, with all due respect with current IADS employed PAF will not be able to operate under 10% attrition.

PAF is not a offensive force - its a defensive offensive tailored.

we need a conventional BM systems that can produce saturation effects on wide veraity of targets 600km from the border

thats a big task. we have seen how missile shower system worked. all we need to do is develop high accuracy BM systems

INDIA IS NO ISRAEL ITS BIG. they can cover all of india conventionally but with Conventional BM and in numbers

India will come immediately on the table. i am amazed why this battle tested concept is unacceptable.

 

[Sparten]

sir, with all due respect with current IADS employed PAF will not be able to operate under 10% attrition.

A direct war with India is going to see eye eatering atrrition on all sides. So no matter.

PAF is not a offensive force - its a defensive offensive tailored.

Which will be news to PAF , especially the deep strike penetration boys and girls, armed with long range ALCM and stand off missiles and bombs

we need a conventional BM systems that can produce saturation effects on wide veraity of targets 600km from the border

So we need something which is **checks notes** less effective than **checks notes again** PAF air capability today?

thats a big task. we have seen how missile shower system worked. all we need to do is develop high accuracy BM systems

40 BM RV. Of about 500 KG weight each. Or appromixmatkey a flight and a half of Thunders and a 2 ship F10 formation?

INDIA IS NO ISRAEL ITS BIG. they can cover all of india conventionally but with Conventional BM and in numbers

Big. So it has huge border and therefore gaps in coverage and protection we can exploit

India will come immediately on the table. i am amazed why this battle tested concept is unacceptable.

Horse archers are also battle tested. Why don't we use those.

 

[Ali_Baba]

at the very minimum its 10s of thousand our airforce has max standoff range of 600 kms. There is a reason why there is an emphasis on precision if our missiles would be purely for nuclear strikes a INS guidance systems would have sufficient but we do know by the details of tests there has been an increased emphasis on precision guidance for All the Shaheen series of missile, deep conventional strikes over 600 km will definitely be carried out by these shaheen series of missiles. S1A 2021 test statement
"The successful flight test is aimed at re-validating various design and technical parameters of the weapon system including advanced navigation system"

I cannot see Pakistan being able to afford to build tens of thousands of ballistic missiles. A few low hundreds of each type is probably more accurate given Pakistan limited finances!

 

[Sparten]

Oh we could build tens of thousands. The biggest cost is R&D, and production facilities, both costs we have aleady incurred. Once design is set, the tooling is in place and the workforce trained, building many thousands is fairly straight forward.
We don't do so since we don't need it.
In addition nuclear BM. need to be much more robust and reliable than conventional ones. The Iranian have a 90% launch success rate for systems which were launched, which is fine for cionventional strikes but not for nuclear ones.

 

[falcon34]

I cannot see Pakistan being able to afford to build tens of thousands of ballistic missiles. A few low hundreds of each type is probably more accurate given Pakistan limited finances!

Nope, Its not about finances since your making everything in house. India is target rich country and given their investment in AD PAF can't really penetrate indian air space without taking attrition thats why they've resorted to bvr engagements, According to your logic we let everything slide inside india beyond 600km, Every military wants to cover entire depth of the enemy with its conventional force americans can do that with their bomber fleet whilst we can't so its natural that we'd be using ballistic missile for that purpose and atleast few thousand or 10s thousand can only make any substantial effect in any high intensity conflict. anyhow the number is in thousands how many, that we can only guess.

 

[TallGuy]

A direct war with India is going to see eye eatering atrrition on all sides. So no matter.

Which will be news to PAF , especially the deep strike penetration boys and girls, armed with long range ALCM and stand off missiles and bombs

So we need something which is **checks notes** less effective than **checks notes again** PAF air capability today?

40 BM RV. Of about 500 KG weight each. Or appromixmatkey a flight and a half of Thunders and a 2 ship F10 formation?

Big. So it has huge border and therefore gaps in coverage and protection we can exploit

Horse archers are also battle tested. Why don't we use those.

Sir, I beg to differ. your answers or opinion are very naïve.

i thought my posts are bad!

 

[falcon34]

sir, with all due respect with current IADS employed PAF will not be able to operate under 10% attrition.

PAF is not a offensive force - its a defensive offensive tailored.

we need a conventional BM systems that can produce saturation effects on wide veraity of targets 600km from the border

thats a big task. we have seen how missile shower system worked. all we need to do is develop high accuracy BM systems

INDIA IS NO ISRAEL ITS BIG. they can cover all of india conventionally but with Conventional BM and in numbers

India will come immediately on the table. i am amazed why this battle tested concept is unacceptable.

Thats why they've introduced this new series of Fattah BMs.
While shaheen series will be responsible for conventional strikes beyond 1000kms. Its the people here that have misunderstood paks approach to BMs. I've look up ISPRs statements regarding BMs and they've talked about accuracy from like 2010s onwards, why on earth you would need accuracy, if you just want nuke a country with the said missile, INs equipped BM with CEP of about 2-300m can get the job done. why develop advanced navigation systems if your not going to use them for conventional strike.

 

[Foxhound]

Pakistan needs to be developing a full spectrum capabilities of technologies for local, areas/neighbours and continents (clandestinely developing the reach). It has some impressive and capable systems - which has deterred it's local adversaries. It now needs to continue deterring the menacing adversaries further away..... Deterrence is the key - if the opponent knows you have the capability to seriously damage them, they will keep away. ...
Pakistan needs to ensure that it has the capability to deter any adversary across the globe. It needs to have the capability to reach Europe, North America, Australia etc. it would be absolutely foolish to focus just on close neighbours. It needs to have this capability Via it's Submarines and land based ICBM (it needs to be confident in developing this technology).
France and the UK don't have the capability to take on the USA or Russia - but they have enough to put those countries back to the stone age....that's the deterrence!
The biggest war mongers are the military industrial complexes in the Western world - they shout that they are here for 'Peace' but have actually destroyed so many countries military and industrial capacities (Iraq, Syria,Libya etc.).
Pakistan needs to deter these global scum bags (double standards arseholes). The Zionists are cockroachs that are utilising other countries support/technology to commit genocide - who is there to deter these evil people? Hence, if you have the reach (ICBM with MIRVs) - you will see these countries being nervous and their rhetoric will be down as they will know the consequences etc.
Pakistan and it's people need to stop this inherent 'fear' of these so called powers. Clandestinely keep developing your long range strike capabilities (I hope Pakistan is continually doing this). You have achieved validated deterrence if the opponent knows that you can send them to the stone age.

 

[Sparten]

Thats why they've introduced this new series of Fattah BMs.
While shaheen series will be responsible for conventional strikes beyond 1000kms. Its the people here that have misunderstood paks approach to BMs. I've look up ISPRs statements regarding BMs and they've talked about accuracy from like 2010s onwards, why on earth you would need accuracy, if you just want nuke a country with the said missile, INs equipped BM with CEP of about 2-300m can get the job done. why develop advanced navigation systems if your not going to use them for conventional strike.

1. Nuclear weapons do need accuracy to kill hardened targets, like command bunkers and weapon storage vaults. Remember intensity drops at the *square* of the distance. 100KT detonation at 1000m is the same effects as a 10KT one at 500m.

2. MIRV means we will tend towads smaller warheads.

 

[hussain0216]

Thats why they've introduced this new series of Fattah BMs.
While shaheen series will be responsible for conventional strikes beyond 1000kms. Its the people here that have misunderstood paks approach to BMs. I've look up ISPRs statements regarding BMs and they've talked about accuracy from like 2010s onwards, why on earth you would need accuracy, if you just want nuke a country with the said missile, INs equipped BM with CEP of about 2-300m can get the job done. why develop advanced navigation systems if your not going to use them for conventional strike.

Pakistani missile program was always for conventional targeted strikes

That's because India is big, it has targets outside of the 700km range where jets and other missiles won't be able to reach

So you need cruise missiles that will eventually reach 1500km in range and accurate BMs

You can't nuke everything

 

[falcon34]

1. Nuclear weapons do need accuracy to kill hardened targets, like command bunkers and weapon storage vaults. Remember intensity drops at the *square* of the distance. 100KT detonation at 1000m is the same effects as a 10KT one at 500m.

2. MIRV means we will tend towads smaller warheads.

But not surgical.
Second if pak wants to hit a target 1000-1500 kms in india, you don't have any air launched missile and PAF can't penetrate that deep in india. so how would pak target that target other than BM.

 

[falcon34]

Pakistani missile program was always for conventional targeted strikes

That's because India is big, it has targets outside of the 700km range where jets and other missiles won't be able to reach

So you need cruise missiles that will eventually reach 1500km in range and accurate BMs

You can't nuke everything

Hell indians will put every command and control structure beyond atleast 1000-1500 km, how will we target those command centers in a conventional conflict?. it has to be through BMs and CMs.

 

[hussain0216]

Hell indians will put every command and control structure beyond atleast 1000-1500 km, how will we target those command centers in a conventional conflict?. it has to be through BMs and CMs.

And the BMs need to be very accurate i.e, 5-10m CEP and have powerful conventional warheads that could rip apart any target and cause maximum damage

You can't have a missile that does the hard work, goes through multiple Air defence systems and then has a limited or small warhead causing limited damage


I want to give the Iranians the shadow of doubt, and I believe their attacks on Israel thus far have been warnings as opposed to a out right attacks and Iranian BMs have either been used as kinetic weapons where the impact and fuel is the bomb or used lower yield warheads


Pakistan can't do that, for those who say we don't need thousands of BMs, the amount of targets beyond 700km to 1000km will be large and we can't allow India to operate with impunity

 

[falcon34]

And the BMs need to be very accurate i.e, 5-10m CEP and have powerful conventional warheads that could rip apart any target and cause maximum damage

You can't have a missile that does the hard work, goes through multiple Air defence systems and then has a limited or small warhead causing limited damage


I want to give the Iranians the shadow of doubt, and I believe their attacks on Israel thus far have been warnings as opposed to a out right attacks and Iranian BMs have either been used as kinetic weapons where the impact and fuel is the bomb or used lower yield warheads


Pakistan can't do that, for those who say we don't need thousands of BMs, the amount of targets beyond 700km to 1000km will be large and we can't allow India to operate with impunity

Every BM and has warhead of 1000 kg. And almost every test they mention something akin to sophisticated navigation system or improved accuracy. 1000kg impacting at hypersonic speeds will be an impact like 4k-5k kg warhead.