PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[guangdongt]

That $90-100 million number for J-35 doesn't add up. F35A costs around $82 mn. I refuse to believe China with it's manufacturing and labor cost advantages would be putting together an arguably inferior platform at same or even more expensive of a cost in actual dollar terms that their american counterparts.

All components going into J-35 are local, there's no licensing or import expenses associated with it. Even with markup and low production numbers, the export value of an J-35 should not exceed $80 mn max, I'd reckon it's in the $70-$75 mn region.

The large-scale production of F35 has obvious cost advantages

 

[studsmart]

is Pakistan trying to get locally produced J31/j35? some where i read that the firm order of 100 to 144 is in the pipe line with local production. can more knowledgeable participants confirm it please

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

is Pakistan trying to get locally produced J31/j35? some where i read that the firm order of 100 to 144 is in the pipe line with local production. can more knowledgeable participants confirm it please

Thora ziyada nahi ho gaya bhai ...........

 

[UKBengali]

That $90-100 million number for J-35 doesn't add up. F35A costs around $82 mn. I refuse to believe China with it's manufacturing and labor cost advantages would be putting together an arguably inferior platform at same or even more expensive of a cost in actual dollar terms that their american counterparts.

All components going into J-35 are local, there's no licensing or import expenses associated with it. Even with markup and low production numbers, the export value of an J-35 should not exceed $80 mn max, I'd reckon it's in the $70-$75 mn region.

"Arguably inferior"?

It will be able to supercruise at high Mach-1 speeds due to twin 100-110kN engines and have absolute aerodynamic supremacy over the F-35 at medium to high altitudes.

It will fly faster and higher than F-35 and so will be able to impact more energy to its missiles and also escape missiles and combat theatres better.

We can argue about radar and electronics but there is likely to be little between them.

A lot of military enthusiasts do not even consider F-35 to be 5th generation as it cannot supercruise.

 

[Irfan Usmani 1977]

is Pakistan trying to get locally produced J31/j35? some where i read that the firm order of 100 to 144 is in the pipe line with local production. can more knowledgeable participants confirm it please

Wishful thinking we can't produce 100% JF-17 locally and we need to built infrastructure first to produce J31/35 locally and it will be expensive jet 36-72 is enough for Pakistan 100+ J31/35 will not needed it will be overpower for PAF, 36-72 J31/35 with 100 + J10C and probably 50-100 block III JF17 will be enough for PAF

 

[SaadH]

"Arguably inferior"?

It will be able to supercruise at high Mach-1 speeds due to twin 100-110kN engines and have absolute aerodynamic supremacy over the F-35 at medium to high altitudes.

It will fly faster and higher than F-35 and so will be able to impact more energy to its missiles and also escape missiles and combat theatres better.

We can argue about radar and electronics but there is likely to be little between them.

A lot of military enthusiasts do not even consider F-35 to be 5th generation as it cannot supercruise.

US military planes are a gold standard and any newcomer has a lot to prove. It all sounds nice in abstract but US fighter planes have a proven track record of absolute dominance. I will still hold F-35 to be superior to J-35, albeit slightly. J-35 has twin engines, but ultimately it is the T/W ratio that counts. J-35 will have higher speeds, but most combat happens at lower speeds and rarely do fighter planes push the speed to the maximum.

 

[UKBengali]

US military planes are a gold standard and any newcomer has a lot to prove. It all sounds nice in abstract but US fighter planes have a proven track record of absolute dominance. I will still hold F-35 to be superior to J-35, albeit slightly. J-35 has twin engines, but ultimately it is the T/W ratio that counts. J-35 will have higher speeds, but most combat happens at lower speeds and rarely do fighter planes push the speed to the maximum.

Dominance against whom?

One generation old Soviet Planes flown by Arabs that are known to be weak pilots.

Last time US fought a true peer adversary they were matched by the Germans plane for plane and pilot for pilot in WW2.

Just think why both China and USA are going for planes with massive twin engines for 6th generation. It is because they known aerodynamic manuverability is crucial in air combat.

Literally no-one thinks that a non supercruise plane makes for a good air superiority fighter.

F-35 is a level down from F-22, J-20 with either WS-10C/WS-15 and also J-35 with WS-19. It cannot supercruise and so will be a "lumbering" laggard in the high speed and high energy war fighting

 

[Irfan Usmani 1977]

Dominance against whom?

One generation old Soviet Planes flown by Arabs that are known to be weak pilots.

Last time US fought a true peer adversary they were matched by the Germans plane for plane and pilot for pilot in WW2.

Just think why both China and USA are going for planes with massive twin engines for 6th generation. It is because they known aerodynamic manuverability is crucial in air combat.

Literally no-one thinks that a non supercruise plane makes for a good air superiority fighter.

F-35 is a level down from F-22, J-20 with either WS-10C/WS-15 and also J-35 with WS-19. It cannot supercruise and so will be a "lumbering" laggard in the high speed and high energy war fighting

But before 5th gen jets all air superiority jets were subsonic same goes to F35 as 4.5th gen jets, Mainly F35 is a strike and CAS support jet with secondary capability of air superiority, for all 5th gen jets supercruise is not necessary

 

[SaadH]

Dominance against whom?

One generation old Soviet Planes flown by Arabs that are known to be weak pilots.

Last time US fought a true peer adversary they were matched by the Germans plane for plane and pilot for pilot in WW2.

Just think why both China and USA are going for planes with massive twin engines for 6th generation. It is because they known aerodynamic manuverability is crucial in air combat.

Literally no-one thinks that a non supercruise plane makes for a good air superiority fighter.

F-35 is a level down from F-22, J-20 with either WS-10C/WS-15 and also J-35 with WS-19. It cannot supercruise and so will be a "lumbering" laggard in the high speed and high energy war fighting

Mig 21's vs F4's in Vietnam were on par generationally, as were Mig 29's vs F15's/16's/18'sin Gulf war and Serbia. Also, SU-30MKI's were on par with F-16's over Kashmir in 2019.

 

[studsmart]

Thora ziyada nahi ho gaya bhai ...........

thora saaa i guess

 

[guangdongt]

But before 5th gen jets all air superiority jets were subsonic same goes to F35 as 4.5th gen jets, Mainly F35 is a strike and CAS support jet with secondary capability of air superiority, for all 5th gen jets supercruise is not necessary

Supersonic cruise refers to the ability of an aircraft to sustain supersonic flight above Mach 1.5 for more than 30 minutes without opening the afterburner. Although supersonic cruise is not very effective in close combat of fighter jets, it plays a crucial role in rapid breakthrough. Once a fighter jet is able to cruise at supersonic speeds, even if detected by early warning radar, it can more easily reach the mission area and complete related tasks before the defense system responds or intercepts the fighter jet before it takes off. At the same time, many infrared detection systems increase their detectable range due to the use of afterburners in fighter jets. Fighter jets with supersonic cruise capability can reduce the possibility of being detected by infrared detection systems. Supersonic cruise can effectively reduce the dangerous time spent in enemy airspace. Secondly, fighter jets sometimes need to be transferred to different war zones to carry out missions, and supersonic cruising can reduce the transfer time. Finally, opening the afterburner of the fighter jet will cause a large amount of thermal radiation, which in turn generates a large number of infrared features. Don't forget that the United States has the F22, which has not been sold to any country

 

[MastanKhan]

Sometimes I think you only agree to this nonsense since it contradicts my predictions!

Hi,

Right or wrong---I have no consideration for anyone when I make a declaration type of post---.

 

[MastanKhan]

That $90-100 million number for J-35 doesn't add up. F35A costs around $82 mn. I refuse to believe China with it's manufacturing and labor cost advantages would be putting together an arguably inferior platform at same or even more expensive of a cost in actual dollar terms than their american counterparts.

All components going into J-35 are local, there's no licensing or import expenses associated with it. Even with markup and low production numbers, the export value of an J-35 should not exceed $80 mn max, I'd reckon it's in the $70-$75 mn region.

Hi,

The $82 mil for the F35 is correct because a very large number of aircraft have been produced---which has brought the costs down---.

The original anticipated cost of the F35 was much higher---. Whatever the cost is---it incliudes profit---.

Paf's deal would be an almost or at net cost deal---.

 

[Irfan Usmani 1977]

Supersonic cruise refers to the ability of an aircraft to sustain supersonic flight above Mach 1.5 for more than 30 minutes without opening the afterburner. Although supersonic cruise is not very effective in close combat of fighter jets, it plays a crucial role in rapid breakthrough. Once a fighter jet is able to cruise at supersonic speeds, even if detected by early warning radar, it can more easily reach the mission area and complete related tasks before the defense system responds or intercepts the fighter jet before it takes off. At the same time, many infrared detection systems increase their detectable range due to the use of afterburners in fighter jets. Fighter jets with supersonic cruise capability can reduce the possibility of being detected by infrared detection systems. Supersonic cruise can effectively reduce the dangerous time spent in enemy airspace. Secondly, fighter jets sometimes need to be transferred to different war zones to carry out missions, and supersonic cruising can reduce the transfer time. Finally, opening the afterburner of the fighter jet will cause a large amount of thermal radiation, which in turn generates a large number of infrared features. Don't forget that the United States has the F22, which has not been sold to any country

I know these things bro but supercruise engine has own limitations because of excess thrust for long period of time it's more maintenance prone and engine life and MTBO (meantime between overhaul) is shorter than traditional engines

As for breaking the lock and IR and radar guided AAMs you can't break the lock of SAMs and AAMs relying only on supercruising speed and maneuverability/agility

Main weapon to breaking the lock from SAMs and AAMs are EW/ECM/ECCM and ESM not supercruising speed and maneuverability

 

[Oscar]

Wishful thinking we can't produce 100% JF-17 locally and we need to built infrastructure first to produce J31/35 locally and it will be expensive jet 36-72 is enough for Pakistan 100+ J31/35 will not needed it will be overpower for PAF, 36-72 J31/35 with 100 + J10C and probably 50-100 block III JF17 will be enough for PAF

That local production is all what PFX is about but Pakistan lacks the capability to manufacture anymore than the landing gear on the J-31.

As far as numbers are concerned keep in mind the J-31s operating costs will be 3-4 times more including the need for Climate controlled facilities - training and storage for LO appliqué and so on.

At this point other than Kamra there is no Base capable of supporting this and no tenders are in place to create such facilities.

The best Pakistan can do is produce the LO appliqué locally since it has dabbled in that from the 90s and H-8 , possibly Murree road and other inconspicuous places might be able to do very small batches.