Chinese UAVs News & Discussions

But the video also shows a P90 gun which is relatively cheap and it has a high firing rate of cheap AHEAD munition
Agree with most of content of your post. Except one:
AHEAD is extreamly expensive munition. It's not cheap at all. Thus, it's ROI is very bad also.
P90 is sitting duck, even PLA abandoned it decades ago.
 
Last edited:
It is feasible to use Hongqi-17 to attack swarm drone. Replace its 156kg fragmentation warhead with an electromagnetic pulse warhead, and detonate it in the middle of the drone swarm. a drone has EMP proof ability will be very very expensive. the tactic has high cost-effectiveness ratio.

War is art, victory or defeat lies in one thought

by the way, PLA do have high-energy electromagnetic pulse (HEMP) weapons and high-power microwave (HPM) weapons and one type of HPM have obtained export licenses, and new types of directed energy weapons that can be exported will soon be seen.

View attachment 73909
The chief drawback to the HQ-17 is its high cost, which averages $26 million per unit

You can take a look at my previous post before making such kind of bold statement.

HQ-17A is expensive, the Tor missile system is very expensive. You need IFF array, radar, and other electronics, operators. How many Tor missle system you can offer for one brigage? Very limited. That's my point, ROI is bad. Meaningless in future, completely outdated concept and designed. Very limited potential to improve.

I am not talking about the current situation only today. I read some research paper, I think PLA must look beyond horizon. We can't afford the same sacrifice in Taiwan Strait conflict as Russians in Ukraine War. We must plan the war of tomorrow, of 10 years later.

I was ICT engineer, I am sure AI will develop faster and faster in all spectrum of human life, including warfare. We must take this into account.

Swarm with self-awareness, object identification, Ad-Hoc Network(decentralized network), is a reality already, and it will be much more powerful and threathening in coming years.

Long distance is not a problem for swarm. Midium size UAV can be powered by mini turbofan engine, working as power station. Midium size UAV can be spreader, offload swarm near the frontline. Midium size UAV can carry solar panels, and fuels, chargers, and many other things.

Those are not pipedeam, it's reality already.


【前沿动态】全球聚焦反无人机之战:挑战与创新并行(上)
在整个冲突期间,乌克兰和俄罗斯一直使用传统防空系统来对抗无人机。这些系统的优势在于,它们已经被大多数军队部署和理解。即使是被认为过时的防空系统也在反无人机的角色中找到了第二次生命,比如Gepard高射炮,它于1980年停产。不足之处在于,众多传统防空系统在应对小型无人机时,尤其是在远距离情况下,显得不够经济实惠。中程和远程防空系统,如爱国者、NASAMS或S-400,其操作和补给成本比除最昂贵的无人机之外的所有无人机都要高出一个数量级。较新的动能系统,如L3 VAMPIRE价格较低但射程较短,这意味着军队必须采购和使用许多此类武器才能覆盖与更先进平台相同的区域。攻击者可以将这些弱点转化为优势。俄罗斯使用大规模无人机袭击不断轰炸乌克兰的基础设施,迫使乌克兰防御者在低价值无人机上花费昂贵的弹药,并将防空系统远离前线以保护后方。



【前沿动态】全球聚焦反无人机之战:挑战与创新并行(下)
然而,定向能并非万能药。激光和微波各有优缺点,为适应性战术、技术和程序创造了机会。这两种系统的一个显著弱点是有效射程通常较短。虽然较短的射程可能适合战略目标的点防御,但其价值可能对区域防御有限。此外,激光通常需要几秒钟才能对目标造成伤害,而空气中的颗粒物(如雨水或烟雾)会破坏这一过程。例如,美国军队在测试安装在Stryker上的激光时发现该系统在恶劣条件下难以在移动车辆上运行。为了利用这些弱点,攻击者可能会在雨天或雾天部署无人机,依靠无人机更高的环境耐受力。虽然恶劣天气也可能抑制无人机上的视觉导航和瞄准系统,但对于已知位置的静态目标来说,这可能无关紧要。海军研究办公室有几项旨在对抗定向能武器的研究,包括材料硬化。同样,未来的反辐射导弹可能会有能够瞄准定向能系统的导引头。这可能是一个巨大的挑战。

虽然激光和微波的单次发射成本较低,但它们的单系统成本往往很高:Epirus从美国陆军获得了一份价值6610万美元的合同,交付四台“列奥尼达”原型机,每台约1650万美元。如果对手能够以可承受的价格瞄准并摧毁这些系统,低成本优势可能会变成高成本风险。此外,定向能通常需要大量电力,而这些电力可能会中断或耗尽。攻击者可能会使用胶合板和泡沫塑料等廉价诱饵来消耗系统存储的电力,然后再发动更大规模的攻击。


美空军实验室重点研究可相互“通信”的蜂群无人机
空军正在研究协作式分布自主系统,这些系统可以相互通信,以更有效地定位目标系统。第二个领域是扩大远程系统的覆盖范围。空军必须确保这些远程支援系统具有足够的生存能力和杀伤力。最后一个重点领域是快速技术植入,需启用开放式架构,特别是陆地开放系统架构,以实现现有系统和未来系统的弹药系统升级。

DARPA拟开发自主滑翔技术以减少小型无人机飞行能耗
DARPA将于10月2日举办“信天翁”计划的提案者日活动,该计划旨在开发用于小型无人机的自主滑翔技术,实现减少75%的小型无人机飞行能耗的目标。滑翔即利用高空气流来减少能源消耗,增加小型无人机航程和续航能力。

低慢小,大威胁:反无人机的技术与方法
大多数军用雷达的系统特性都是针对比小型无人机更大、更快的威胁而优化的。因此,更高频率的雷达常被用于探测无人机,尤其是Ku波段雷达和Ka波段雷达(频率分别为12至18千兆赫和26.5至40千兆赫)。使用这些较高频率雷达的缺点是大气衰减会增加,尤其是在下雨天,这将缩小系统的最大探测距离。关于雷达系统对小型无人机的有效探测距离,不同的文献众说纷纭,因为在实际应用中,理论上能够达到的最大探测距离有可能导致令人无法接受的高虚警率。在理想条件下,即假设雷达对目标的视线畅通无阻,雷达的有效探测距离在2至8公里之间。

激光探测与测距(LADAR)系统与雷达类似,但使用的是激光照射目标。与光电/红外系统一样,这种系统也很容易受到雨雾的影响。实际上,最新研究表明,LADAR系统探测30米开外的小型无人机的成功率不高,如此短的探测距离远不足以支持现代反无人机任务,但随着激光系统及其数据处理能力的不断改进,预计未来LADAR系统的性能将迎来提升。

尽管导弹和火炮在对付无人机方面效果显著,但在非战斗区域使用有可能造成极高的附带伤害。即使在战斗区域内使用,也需要协调火力弧和空域管制,以避免误伤友军。此外,此类武器以摧毁单架飞机为主,面对无人机群可能无法形成可观的防御效果。为有效对抗无人机群,可能需要使用弹仓深度深、可快速交战并具有区域杀伤性的武器系统。

然而,激光武器的效用有可能随着大气水蒸气的增多而降低,因为特定的激光波长有可能被水蒸气吸收,这在湿度较高的环境中尤为明显。高能激光对于对付其附近区域的目标具有极高的精确度。然而,被激光击毁的目标会以难以预测的方式坠落,有可能对地面建筑或人员造成伤害。高能激光的作战概念还必须考虑其对远处传感器(如在该区域内运行的本方机载传感器)可能产生的附带影响,以及激光在攻击目标时对暴露于目标镜面反射下的人体造成的危害,散射激光能或将对人眼造成永久性伤害。

激光和高功率微波武器都有相应的反制措施。对于激光武器而言,使用烟雾或其他遮蔽物可以阻挡激光束的路径,减少激光器对目标的直接照射;加固无人机意味着在无人机设计中采用能够反射或吸收激光的材料(这通常有助于减缓激光效果产生的进程,而非完全抑制其效果)。另一种反制措施是使用大量无人机进行压制,这能有效分散激光武器的注意力和火力,使其难以锁定真正的目标。此外,激光武器需要在多次发射之间进行冷却和/或再蓄力,无人机可利用这个时间窗口进行反击。对于高功率微波武器而言,无人机可通过加固电子设备进行防御,例如使用特殊的屏蔽材料来防止电磁脉冲进入飞机的电子系统。



美国海军发布“沉默蜂群2025”无人系统实验通知
“沉默蜂群”是一系列多域无人系统(UxS)的电磁频谱作战(EMSO)能力实验。“沉默蜂群2025”计划于2025年7月举行,重点关注自适应、模块化无人系统的协调性、一致性与反应能力,尤其是在偏海洋条件的高移动多域集成环境中。



反无人机集群态势感知应对策略研究
实际上由于无人机集群具有很强的突防能力和高度的协同性,反无人机集群的关键是进行区域拒止防御,而要实现该目标,关键在于尽早感知敌集群态势,从而为摧毁敌集群运载释放平台和地面站,干扰敌通信链路等预留时间窗口。因此,针对当前研究不足,本文以反无人机集群态势感知应对策略为研究对象,首先对反无人机集群联合多域探测手段进行阐述介绍,然后分别以集群目标的融合跟踪和意图识别为例对分级式融合结构进行分析讨论。



【研究报告】美军无人机反制装备能力现状及发展趋势研究报告
摘要

美军最全反无人机装备体系!!!


为解决低空空域控制权夺取问题,有效应对小型无人机威胁,美国近年来逐步加大对无人机反制技术的研究深度,着眼于近期、中期、远期三个阶段,美军成体系规划设计,研制了大量无人机反制装备,据开源情报统计分析约160余型。其中,综合指控系统属于无人机反制系统的神经中枢,主要包括ADSI、FAAD—C2、MEDUSA等3型系统,可以兼容24型无人机目标探测识别系统、36型干扰反制系统、14型作战指挥系统,并在不断的拓展完善。

本报告区分综合指控、目标探测、电子干扰、激光打击、微波打击、网式捕捉、火力打击、综合集成、无人反制无人等九大类型,对其研发公司、产品性能、功能特征、技术参数、测试运用等进行了详细介绍与剖析。报告最后还从美军无人机反制市场预测、发展挑战、发展特征、发展态势及重点出发,对美军无人机反制装备未来发展趋势做了简要剖析
View attachment 73448
 
Last edited:
I really don't like such a PR demo. Such a concentration of equipment is very vulnerable to cluster bombing.
Most of the PR video looks either odd or staged.
 
Agree with most of content of your post. Except one:
AHEAD is extremely expensive munition. It's not cheap at all. Thus, it's ROI is very bad also.
P90 is sitting duck, even PLA abandoned it decades ago.
Not according to the Army Recognition website It is more efficient meaning you can do with fewer rounds than a conventional shell. Maybe the P 90 model is a bit outdated but I am sure the next iteration will be updated using most of the technology of P 90 like this Rheinmetall Sky next AHEAD system

Each round of Rheinmetall's 35mm x 228 Oerlikon Ahead airburst ammunition contains a lethal payload of heavy metal spin-stabilized subprojectiles, unleashed in the path of an oncoming target at a programmable, predefined point in time. A short burst of Ahead ammunition produces a dense cloud of lethal subprojectiles. These penetrate the outer skin of the target, causing catastrophic damage to its interior.

Ahead airburst ammunition can bring down targets at greater distances with fewer rounds fired, making it a much more cost-effective solution than conventional ammunition. The technology can be used in ammunition ranging in caliber from 30mm to 76mm. Ahead technology is suitable for ground, air force and naval applications. As an alternative option, Ahead rounds can also be fired in non-fused mode, in which they behave like frangible rounds upon impact and are able to penetrate and destroy hard targets very effectively. In effect, Ahead is actually two types of ammunition in one.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
"wrong thread?"

not, it shows the strength of PLA drone defence, ‘攻守兼备’ is adhering to the principle of having both offense and defense, meaning that the strength of attack and defense is balanced and equal.

"Such a concentration of equipment is very vulnerable to cluster bombing."

whether you like or not, it is just a staged training, not tactic performance exhibition.

"The chief drawback to the HQ-17 is its high cost, which averages $26 million per unit"
No one knows its exact cost,
As far as I know, the price of one HQ17 missile is about several hundred thousand yuan, less than 100,000 US dollars, not that expensive, it is produced in China.

'Expensive' is a product characteristic, while 'affordable' is a consumer characteristic. If you can't afford it, you can't blame the product for being too expensive, you can only blame yourself for not having money or ability.

There are many types of HQ missiles and other high, medium, and low range missiles in China, but it seems that you only know HQ17. It's your problem, not PLA's problem.

and, Modern warfare is a systemic war, not a competition of individual weapons.
 
Without a doubt, a missile equipped with an electromagnetic pulse ( EMP ) warhead can definitely destroy a large group of drones. many Chinese missile warheads are EMP warhead.

"The principle of action of electromagnetic pulse weapons is to use high-energy electromagnetic pulses generated by the launching device to destroy the target equipment. The characteristics of this pulse are high frequency, broadband, and high peak power. According to different application requirements, electromagnetic pulse weapons can be divided into two categories: high-energy electromagnetic pulse (HEMP) weapons and high-power microwave (HPM) weapons. The former is mainly used for large-scale electromagnetic pulse attacks, while the latter is mainly used for precise strikes on electronic devices

The power of this weapon mainly lies in its ability to destroy electronic systems. When a powerful electromagnetic pulse passes through the circuit of a device, it can instantly destroy or damage the electronic components of the target device, making it unable to function properly

The commercial multi rotor unmanned aerial vehicle killer developed by China has arrived, which is the high-power microwave weapon. According to the journal "Strong Laser and Particle Beam" cited by the South China Morning Post, a Chinese team has developed a high-power microwave weapon driven by four small Stirling engines. The high-frequency electromagnetic waves emitted by it can not only suppress drones, but also fighter jets, bombers, and satellites, to the point of being so powerful that they have no friends."

China has singed and issued an Export Consent for one kind of such weapon. you may see such weapon in the next month Shenzhen Air&weapon show.
 
Not according to the Army Recognition website It is more efficient meaning you can do with fewer rounds than a conventional shell. Maybe the P 90 model is a bit outdated but I am sure the next iteration will be updated using most of the technology of P 90 like this Rheinmetall Sky next AHEAD system

Each round of Rheinmetall's 35mm x 228 Oerlikon Ahead airburst ammunition contains a lethal payload of heavy metal spin-stabilized subprojectiles, unleashed in the path of an oncoming target at a programmable, predefined point in time. A short burst of Ahead ammunition produces a dense cloud of lethal subprojectiles. These penetrate the outer skin of the target, causing catastrophic damage to its interior.

Ahead airburst ammunition can bring down targets at greater distances with fewer rounds fired, making it a much more cost-effective solution than conventional ammunition. The technology can be used in ammunition ranging in caliber from 30mm to 76mm. Ahead technology is suitable for ground, air force and naval applications. As an alternative option, Ahead rounds can also be fired in non-fused mode, in which they behave like frangible rounds upon impact and are able to penetrate and destroy hard targets very effectively. In effect, Ahead is actually two types of ammunition in one.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Type 625E SHORAD abandoned AHEAD
 
Notice E or export variant Anyway new laser-mounted armor from Norinco
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Country Watch Latest

Back
Top