PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[Oscar]

There is this thing called as selling from your own inventory. Depending upon situation, it can be arranged, for a fee ofcourse.

And btw, the same applies to Pakistan as well. If India decides to ramp up its fifth gen with a 120 billion dollar infusion, what will Pakistan do? Rather what can Pakistan do?

Nothing.

So yes, India can indeed buy fighters like chocolates.

Even if you sell from your own inventory - it takes time to train humans which unless you also intend to buy mercenaries you cannot.

The same goes for infusions of funds / it’s not instant and needs ramp up - sure it will be nigh impossible for Pakistan if and when the ramp finally hits but seeing the history of Indian procurement your point is nothing more than self delusional fantasy.

Now you can continue with your jingoistic nonsense but let’s agree to disagree and not waste my time.

 

[AjayGhatak]

Even if you sell from your own inventory - it takes time to train humans which unless you also intend to buy mercenaries you cannot.

The same goes for infusions of funds / it’s not instant and needs ramp up - sure it will be nigh impossible for Pakistan if and when the ramp finally hits but seeing the history of Indian procurement your point is nothing more than self delusional fantasy.

Now you can continue with your jingoistic nonsense but let’s agree to disagree and not waste my time.

It applies to PAF equally. Unless ofcourse you believe that somehow Pakistan can magically train 1000 pilots on J-35.

Not to mention, you are betting on a totally brand new platform. That itself will have many issues to fix.

F-35's history should tell you enough.

 

[Quwa]

You are (almost)practically saying what I am saying.

JF-17 Block 3 production will continue at 12-16 a year till they get to nearly 100 planes I imagine. It is more than sufficient to handle anything in IAF bar Rafale.

I said 40 J-10CEs and 40 J-35s as that would be sufficient to keep IAF at bay and even probably give PAF air supremacy till it gets a proper next generation fighter, as the J-35 is in another league to any version of IAF Rafale.

Nothing to match or exceed J-35 will come to IAF till Tempest is available to India in the mid to late 2030s. Yes they will become a "partner" as that is the only option they have to counter PAF J-35s and so will get it as soon as the others like UK/Italy/Japan get it. India in essence will pay billions to UK in development costs for the right to get Tempest as early as possible.

Not sure whether PAF will want to solely rely on Chinese fighters as the Turkish KAAN may potentially be available for exports in the early 2030s. The massive unknown is whether Turkey will successfully develop its own engine. If KAAN is not available then I can see PAF getting 80-90 J-35s by the mid-2030s as you say.

Indeed, but India will not co-fund the Tempest unless it gets serious workshare, and - IMO - a workshare negotiation involving UK, Italy, Japan, and India will be, without a doubt, one of the most complicated and drawn out talks in history. Too many big industrial players with a need to keep jobs at home involved. These European NGFA consortium would prefer partners like KSA, UAE, Qatar, and Kazakhstan because, in all likelihood, these powers will give the funding and limit their workshare needs.

India's best NGFA bet is to look at home. I'm not kidding. IMO, the recurring tenders have derailed IAF modernization over and over again. They'd be better off taking a page from ROK: focus on indigenous designs, buy off-the-shelf subsystems where necessary while incentivizing the OEMs involved to set up shop in India, and move ahead with whatever works while iterating, not waiting for perfection.

I'm sure India can get the AMCA in service by the 2030s. It won't be perfect at first, and it may even fall behind the J-35A in some respects. But a fleet of AMCAs (as well as ORCAs) will give PAF planners serious pause before any adventure. Then, over subsequent years, improved (and more indigenized) variants of the AMCA and ORCA can start filling out the IAF fleet.

You need to mention timelines, otherwise people start to think its going to be like that within next 10 years.

Yep. J-10CEs from 2020 to 2030 (or as long as the production line stays open). J-35A from 2028 to 2040 (coinciding with the last of the PAF's Block-15OCU/ADF F-16s).

 

[Oscar]

It applies to PAF equally. Unless ofcourse you believe that somehow Pakistan can magically train 1000 pilots on J-35.

Not to mention, you are betting on a totally brand new platform. That itself will have many issues to fix.

F-35's history should tell you enough.

Nowhere has that been claimed - you just made that up to assuage your own flawed argument.

If anything, even if the PAF allegedly procures J-35 by 2026 - it will not be able to fully exploit their capabilities in the most effective manner for another few years.

But - it still will have a lead over India

 

[AjayGhatak]

Nowhere has that been claimed - you just made that up to assuage your own flawed argument.

But - it still will have a lead over India

How can PAF have any kind of edge over IAF if it can not even field a squadron of J-35s before 2035 or so.

J-35 is yet to finish its development. Then there is production. Remember, J-20 took almost a decade to reach large numbers.

Even if J-35 were to achieve its FoC by 2025, which is saying a lot. It wont be of much use unless you have a squadron worth of them ready to be inducted. And ramping up production is a totally different issue in itself.

PAF will not have any edge unless ofcourse India chooses to not induct any counters till 2035. If a conflict like 2019 happens, it can certainly speed up Indian willingness to accelarate procurement process.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, if you will call day as night then yeah there is nothing to argue about it.

Sir,

I am not a disrespectful poster---. So---don't take my posts in that manner.

Secondly---I hardly ever address indian posters on this forum---.

Proof is in the pudding---. If india had funds---it would have the needed aircraft.

Modi had to resort to the fake Pulwama drama to get the money for the rafales---.

There is no 5th gen out there available for india till 2035-2040.

India won't buy the F35---because of the strings / kill switches / restrictions / servicing protocols attached.

 

[MastanKhan]

Nowhere has that been claimed - you just made that up to assuage your own flawed argument.

If anything, even if the PAF allegedly procures J-35 by 2026 - it will not be able to fully exploit their capabilities in the most effective manner for another few years.

But - it still will have a lead over India

Hi,

It will take 5-10 years plus to be able to accommodate the J35's in the Paf.

 

[MastanKhan]

How can PAF have any kind of edge over IAF if it can not even field a squadron of J-35s before 2035 or so.

J-35 is yet to finish its development. Then there is production. Remember, J-20 took almost a decade to reach large numbers.

Even if J-35 were to achieve its FoC by 2025, which is saying a lot. It wont be of much use unless you have a squadron worth of them ready to be inducted. And ramping up production is a totally different issue in itself.

PAF will not have any edge unless ofcourse India chooses to not induct any counters till 2035. If a conflict like 2019 happens, it can certainly speed up Indian willingness to accelarate procurement process.

Hi,

The J20 had less #'s because there was no established powerplant for it---. The chinese focus was on the EW and weapons package.

Now that the power plant of the J20 is in service---the production has gone up---& numbers I believe close to or more than 200.

 

[AjayGhatak]

Sir,

I am not a disrespectful poster---. So---don't take my posts in that manner.

Secondly---I hardly ever address indian posters on this forum---.

Proof is in the pudding---. If india had funds---it would have the needed aircraft.

Modi had to resort to the fake Pulwama drama to get the money for the rafales---.

There is no 5th gen out there available for india till 2035-2040.

India won't buy the F35---because of the strings / kill switches / restrictions / servicing protocols attached.

Well,

I highly doubts funds are the issue here. India is buying quite a few Rafale-Ms for its carrier and they are planning to buy 114 more 4th generation ones. So money is certainly not the issue here.

If pushed into a corner, they have many options however.

Just like Turkey they can also mothball S-400 with a promise to sell it at a later date. Given they are working on an indian version of S-400 under so called "Project Kusha", they can choose to put more money in accelarating that project, may be with some help from Israel in fire control radar department. Heck they can also promise to deactivate and mothball S-400 when first F-35s arrives. That will give them enough time to accelarate their own SAM development.

If I were to bet between a fifth gen development and a SAM development, I will bet on SAM. Much less things to screw up. Especially if they get Israel's help in fire control radars.

With that they can go for 4 squadrons of F-35s and remaining F-16 or F-18 in that 114 jets procurement. Given Indian adversories will be Pakistan and China, I doubt US will pull the kill switch when it comes to fight involving those two.

This will give India 4 squadron of F-35s by 2035 or so. Later when their AMCA arrives by 2070 or 2080 (this is HAL we are talking about ofcourse), they can finally stop using F-35s completely.

 

[Dalit]

There is this thing called as selling from your own inventory. Depending upon situation, it can be arranged, for a fee ofcourse.

And btw, the same applies to Pakistan as well. If India decides to ramp up its fifth gen with a 120 billion dollar infusion, what will Pakistan do? Rather what can Pakistan do?

Nothing.

So yes, India can indeed buy fighters like chocolates.

Give it up dude.

 

[iblini]

The folding wing version of PL-15E is here, J35 export version can carry 6 of these missiles in the built in magazine.

 

[UKBengali]

Indeed, but India will not co-fund the Tempest unless it gets serious workshare, and - IMO - a workshare negotiation involving UK, Italy, Japan, and India will be, without a doubt, one of the most complicated and drawn out talks in history. Too many big industrial players with a need to keep jobs at home involved. These European NGFA consortium would prefer partners like KSA, UAE, Qatar, and Kazakhstan because, in all likelihood, these powers will give the funding and limit their workshare needs.

India's best NGFA bet is to look at home. I'm not kidding. IMO, the recurring tenders have derailed IAF modernization over and over again. They'd be better off taking a page from ROK: focus on indigenous designs, buy off-the-shelf subsystems where necessary while incentivizing the OEMs involved to set up shop in India, and move ahead with whatever works while iterating, not waiting for perfection.

I'm sure India can get the AMCA in service by the 2030s. It won't be perfect at first, and it may even fall behind the J-35A in some respects. But a fleet of AMCAs (as well as ORCAs) will give PAF planners serious pause before any adventure. Then, over subsequent years, improved (and more indigenized) variants of the AMCA and ORCA can start filling out the IAF fleet.

Assembly line will be set up in India for the 200+ planes India will want.

They will get workshare of the stuff they can do like airframe, certain electronics etc.

I am not that optimistic on AMCA to be honest - it will be significantly inferior to J-35 and even worse than upcoming Chinese 6th generation plane in the mid-2030s.

Only Tempest can stand up against Chinese 6th generation planes and India will think of national security primarily over industrial participation.

 

[mythbuster]

Hi,

It will take 5-10 years plus to be able to accommodate the J35's in the Paf.

Pilot and maintenance crew training started coup of years ago ....please reconsider your timeline

 

[maxpane]

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[MastanKhan]

Pilot and maintenance crew training started coup of years ago ....please reconsider your timeline

Hi,

There are no short cuts to excellence---.

Well---3 pilots to an aircraft and specialized crews as well. The learning curve is going to be long---.

Someone correct me---it took the F35 close to 15 years---.