Jinnah Class Frigate | Updates & Discussion

[Awwad]

There's budget issue, each missile and each VLS costs millions of dollars. PN opted for more number of lightly armed ships Versus fewer number of heavily armed ships. This approach makes sense in a way that PN will have option to upgrade these ships in future whenever there is requirement and availability of funds.

Agreed, Pak has no desire for sea control, just essentially keeping IN at bay and off ur backs (and supply lines)

Pak should have such a desire. Atleast at the regional level. What's the use of spending most on your military, maintaining a large armed forces but having zero power projection. IMO, pakistan can cut down massive non-combat related budget of Pakistan army and spend more on Navy. IMO, the US Fleet, NATO, GCC countries, every other navy that passes by Arabian sea should feel strong presence of PN and its sea control. Gives country a lot of influence & geopolitical mileage.

PN has a very very formidable and large enemy to the East. Heavy frigates/destroyers would mean fewer ships and also juicy targets for the Indian Navy. PN investing more in area denial.

True, PN is focusing on more number of platforms right now and these are moderately armed, quite well for the time being. In due course, these platforms can be further upgraded with more advance SAMs / VLS systems. However, there is also importance of large vessels. I think PN should keep a balance in the longer run between medium size & large platforms. Once it has reached 20 major warship number then any further ship should be a destroyer size ship (or atleast the aim should be for it). Modern larger ships aren't larger on the radar owing to stealthy design. These are more difficult target because of several reasons. These ones have more space that means more layers of defense, that means more powerful EW equipment, & larger radars you can place, more number of systems and more number of missiles you can add on, plus more range & endurance and in a worst case scenario it has a more powerful super structure to even withstand the impact. Such ships can also heavily contribute in A2/AD. You will have freedom to arm these ships with larger, heavier, SSMs and can have long range SAMs, that longer reach & firepower can be a deterrence itself. Future energy based weapons will also require lot of space and larger ships. IMO, in naval platforms size still matters. I understand there are other essential priorities right now and no budget for modern destroyer but was just highlighting its importance that once current priorities are met then it should be considered.

 

[mythbuster]

There's budget issue, each missile and each VLS costs millions of dollars. PN opted for more number of lightly armed ships Versus fewer number of heavily armed ships. This approach makes sense in a way that PN will have option to upgrade these ships in future whenever there is requirement and availability of funds.



Pak should have such a desire. Atleast at the regional level. What's the use of spending most on your military, maintaining a large armed forces but having zero power projection. IMO, pakistan can cut down massive non-combat related budget of Pakistan army and spend more on Navy. IMO, the US Fleet, NATO, GCC countries, every other navy that passes by Arabian sea should feel strong presence of PN and its sea control. Gives country a lot of influence & geopolitical mileage.




True, PN is focusing on more number of platforms right now and these are moderately armed, quite well for the time being. In due course, these platforms can be further upgraded with more advance SAMs / VLS systems. However, there is also importance of large vessels. I think PN should keep a balance in the longer run between medium size & large platforms. Once it has reached 20 major warship number then any further ship should be a destroyer size ship (or atleast the aim should be for it). Modern larger ships aren't larger on the radar owing to stealthy design. These are more difficult target because of several reasons. These ones have more space that means more layers of defense, that means more powerful EW equipment, & larger radars you can place, more number of systems and more number of missiles you can add on, plus more range & endurance and in a worst case scenario it has a more powerful super structure to even withstand the impact. Such ships can also heavily contribute in A2/AD. You will have freedom to arm these ships with larger, heavier, SSMs and can have long range SAMs, that longer reach & firepower can be a deterrence itself. Future energy based weapons will also require lot of space and larger ships. IMO, in naval platforms size still matters. I understand there are other essential priorities right now and no budget for modern destroyer but was just highlighting its importance that once current priorities are met then it should be considered.

You are high on yesterday's concepts and navy is thinking about tommorow ...you are asking for blue water navy but navy is content with dominance in the Persian gulf and force projection at the entrance of red Sea .....blue water navy serves no purpose for Pakistan ....Indian ocean is too vast for Pak navy , she would be like small fish in big pond .....the way technologies are developing surface ships will become very vulnerable in coming decades ....

 

[Awwad]

You are high on yesterday's concepts and navy is thinking about tommorow ...you are asking for blue water navy but navy is content with dominance in the Persian gulf and force projection at the entrance of red Sea .....blue water navy serves no purpose for Pakistan ....Indian ocean is too vast for Pak navy , she would be like small fish in big pond .....the way technologies are developing surface ships will become very vulnerable in coming decades ....

Navy can't become blue water navy by adding 2 destroyers. Even that I suggested to happen after existing priorities. In the nutshell you completely missed the crux of my post.

Lastly, Warships are going to be even more important in future. The Electronic warfare, energy based weapons are dependent on surface platforms. Without presence of surface fleet the navy will diminish its presence and most of roles. You can't participate in defense of ports, you can't look for so many interests. Every platform has its own value. Submarines have its own critical value so is the warships. Look at the global trend, look how many warships are being constructed. How developed nations are focusing on next gen frigates and destroyers. They are not fools. You just think a platform is exposed so is vulnerable, its not. Its extremely mobile, very fast and stealthy and gives you incredible amount of flexibility to achieve your goals.

 

[blueboy7862]

Based on the above specifications, the Jinnah is more of a corvette than a frigate with a displacement slightly heavier than the Babur corvettes. Also, 16 cells for SAM is quite atrocious.

Totally underwhelming specs.

16 cell VLS might be quad packed. So lot of fire power (64missiles). Moreover, it exactly suits PN' s requirements for Multi- Role platform with cost effectiveness .

 

[MastanKhan]

You are high on yesterday's concepts and navy is thinking about tommorow ...you are asking for blue water navy but navy is content with dominance in the Persian gulf and force projection at the entrance of red Sea .....blue water navy serves no purpose for Pakistan ....Indian ocean is too vast for Pak navy , she would be like small fish in big pond .....the way technologies are developing surface ships will become very vulnerable in coming decades ....

Hi,

Thank you---.

Excellent post---.

 

[studsmart]

16 cell VLS might be quad packed. So lot of fire power (64missiles). Moreover, it exactly suits PN' s requirements for Multi- Role platform with cost effectiveness .

JFC ANTI AM is not quad pack

 

[blueboy7862]

JFC ANTI AM is not quad pack

Even then we have CIWS & 76mm dual purpose gun which has anti-aircraft/ missile capabilities. So it is very capable design. Although there is room for more advanced weapons & sensors like 4-D radar with some sort of Towed -Array sonar amongst others.

 

[hussain0216]

JFC ANTI AM is not quad pack

We don't know what the navy will do, because this is the navy's own project they can do what they like and going forward anything is possible as long as finance is available and their is enough space on the Jinnah class

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Jamie]

16 cell VLS might be quad packed. So lot of fire power (64missiles). Moreover, it exactly suits PN' s requirements for Multi- Role platform with cost effectiveness .

But from the model and render it appears the Jinnah hull enables room for deeper VLS tubes yet they didn’t capitalize on it. It should have been 32vls minimum. 16 missiles of a single type like camm-er and 16 of another.
And we still don’t know if it’s going to be quad packed. Will camm-er be approved for the turkish vls? American option is closed.

 

[CSAW]

"
“Based on experience gained during the construction of MILGEM Class Ships, the Pakistan Navy is planning to build JINNAH Class Frigates which will be our first ever indigenously designed and built frigate-sized warship,” he said.



Speaking in an interview, Admiral Ashraf outlined that the 'Jinnah Class Frigates' will be designed to address the full spectrum of modern naval threats, including surface warfare, anti-submarine operations, and air defence.

These multi-role ships, typically between 100 and 150 meters in length and weighing 2,000-4,000 tons, are equipped with a range of weaponry, including guns, missiles, torpedoes, and anti-submarine rockets."

Pakistan to strengthen naval defence with its first frigate-sized warship | The Express Tribune

Multi-role ships, 100-150m long and 2,000-4,000 tons, armed with guns, missiles, torpedoes, and anti-submarine rockets

tribune.com.pk

"....Third, ASFAT A.Ş. will assist Pakistan in designing an original frigate. In 2018, a PN official said the fourth ship will be “the first Jinnah-class frigate,” but Turkish defence media have indicated the entire line of ships are of the Jinnah-class.[33][34] However, either way, the fourth ship will be different from the first three vessels. In October 2020, the PN CNS confirmed that the Jinnah-class frigate will actually be a new line of ships separate of the four modified corvettes."

Babur-Class Corvette | Pakistan Navy MILGEM Program

Comprehensive review of the Pakistan Navy's MILGEM program, which involves four Babur-class corvettes and the design work for the Jinnah-class frigate.

quwa.org

 

[CSAW]

Could the PN JCF further phases evolve into a 6000 - 8000 ton Frigate / Destroyer ....

TF-2000 AAW Destroyer Project​

A total of 8,300 tons is planned for the TF-2000 destroyers, which will be the largest ships built under the MILGEM Program. The destroyers will have an overall length of 149 meters with a beam of 21.5 meters, and a draft of 5.75 meters.


TF-2000 destroyer will feature a formidable array of weapon systems, ensuring its versatility and combat effectiveness in various operational scenarios.

Its primary gun will be a 127mm main gun, providing powerful fire support for surface engagements, as well as naval gunfire support.

Heavy Weapons Factory of MKE, based in Kırıkkale, provides solutions in line with the large-calibre weapon requirements of the Turkish Armed Forces. According to the Court of Accounts report, the “127 mm Naval Gun Barrel” is also “produced in the factory facilities with competent personnel and high technology.”




The destroyer will also be equipped with a 96-cell (32+64) indigenous Vertical Launch System (MİDLAS), capable of launching a variety of advanced munitions.







Among the munitions deployable from MİDLAS are indigenous surface-to-air missiles, potentially from the SIPER air defense system, and the highly anticipated GEZGİN land-attack missiles.


Additionally, the destroyer will carry 16 ATMACA anti-ship missiles (AshM) for engaging naval and coastal targets.

For close-in defense, the destroyer will be fitted a RAM-like point defence missile system (probably Roketsan’s Levent or Aselsan’s Göksur) and Gökdeniz Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) will provide a critical layer of protection against incoming threats such as missiles and drones.

The TF-2000 is also expected to be armed with lightweight torpedoes for ASW, likely the Aselsan ORKA, to enhance its underwater combat capabilities.

ROKETSAN & ASELSAN Orka Yeni Nesil Hafif Torpido

2020 yılının son günlerinde ROKETSAN'nın ana yüklenici, ASELSAN'nın alt yüklenici olduğu Orka 275 mm Yeni Nesil Hafif Torpido Projesi başlatılmıştır.

mavivatan.net

Complementing these systems will be stabilized remote weapon systems, such as the ASELSAN STAMP and/or STOP, offering flexible and precise firepower for a range of scenarios.



The primary sensor for air survellience will be CAFRAD, a fixed face GaN AESA radar which can track more than 2000 contacts within 450 km range. It will also feature an LPI navigational radar, EO directors, integrated sonar system including bow mounted and towed array sonars (Aselsan Düfas), coupled to ADVENT combat management system.

 

[CSAW]

INS TUSHIL & Tri-Comissioning across the border


On January 15, 2025, the Indian Navy commissioned three frontline combatants into its fleet: INS Nilgiri, the lead ship of the Project 17A class frigates; INS Surat, the fourth and final ship of the Project 15B class destroyers; and INS Vaghsheer, the sixth and final submarine of the Scorpene-class project

INS Nilgiri of Project 17A has two 30 mm AK-630M CIWS, two L&T triple torpedo launchers, two L&T Indigenous Rocket Launchers for ASW rockets, eight BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles and 32 Barak-8 / MRSAM surface to air missiles.

The induction of these warships comes after Talwar class frigate INS Tushil was commissioned into the Indian Navy on December 9, 2024 at Yantar Shipyard in Russia. The ship was constructed at the Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad and has undergone various trials, including Factory Sea Trials, State Committee Trials, and Delivery Acceptance Trials. The ship reached a top speed of over 30 knots during these tests.

Indian Navy commissioned INS Tushil at Yantar Shipyard in Russia on December 9, 2024. INS Tushil is the first of two upgraded additional follow-on ships ordered by India, for which the contract was signed in October 2016 between JSC Rosoboronexport, the Indian Navy and the Government of India.



The contract for the two vessels was signed for around $1 billion in 2016 with another contract for two frigates signed in October 2018 for 14,100 crore ($1.95 billion). The second contract includes the cost of upgrading the facilities at Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL) and the licensing fee as they are being built in India.



The ship was laid down in July 2013 for the Russian Navy but faced issues with the supply of the ship’s engine as Ukraine sanctioned Russia for the invasion in 2014. Two of the Project 1135.6 frigates were then bought by India to supplement the growth of its fleet. It was launched in October 2021 and sailed out for maiden sea trials in January 2024. The ship completed its final trial on September 24, 2024, but commissioning was delayed due to the availability of senior officials for the ceremony. The second ship built at Yantar is expected to be delivered around March 2025.



The ship features a new setup for ship air defence with the 24 vertically launched Shtil1 (9M317ME) surface-to-air missiles replacing the single-arm launcher for Shtil (9M317E). It can house up to eight BrahMos SSM in the UVLM launcher replacing the Russian UKSK VLS in the older ships. It also has an Indian electronic warfare and communication suite. The vessel has an Indian content of around 26% by value and 33% by volume. The ship has a range of over 4,000 miles and a maximum speed of over 30 knots.

India now has 13 frigates in its fleet with 10 more under various stages of construction and trial.

The Indian Ministry of Defence has cleared the proposal for seven more frigates under Project-17 Bravo, a successor to the Nilgiri class frigates.

The Indian Navy is well placed to act as a net security provider in the Indian Ocean Region by adding more advanced ships and platforms.

Indian Navy commissions new Project 1135.6 frigate, INS Tushil

INS Tushil (F 70), the latest multi-role stealth-guided Talwar-class missile frigate, was commissioned into the Indian Navy.

www.navaltoday.com

Indian Navy Inducts New Destroyer, Frigate and Submarine - Naval News

The Indian Navy commissioned INS Nilgiri, Project 17A frigate; INS Surat, Project 15B class destroyers; and INS Vaghsheer submarine

www.navalnews.com

Indian Navy commissions the first ship of upgraded follow-on of Talwar class - INS Tushil

INS Tushil is the first of two upgraded additional follow-on ships ordered by India, for which the contract was signed in October 2016 between JSC

www.overtdefense.com

 

[Quwa]

Could the PN JCF further phases evolve into a 6000 - 8000 ton Frigate / Destroyer ....

TF-2000 AAW Destroyer Project​

A total of 8,300 tons is planned for the TF-2000 destroyers, which will be the largest ships built under the MILGEM Program. The destroyers will have an overall length of 149 meters with a beam of 21.5 meters, and a draft of 5.75 meters.

View attachment 95661
TF-2000 destroyer will feature a formidable array of weapon systems, ensuring its versatility and combat effectiveness in various operational scenarios.

Its primary gun will be a 127mm main gun, providing powerful fire support for surface engagements, as well as naval gunfire support.

Heavy Weapons Factory of MKE, based in Kırıkkale, provides solutions in line with the large-calibre weapon requirements of the Turkish Armed Forces. According to the Court of Accounts report, the “127 mm Naval Gun Barrel” is also “produced in the factory facilities with competent personnel and high technology.”

View attachment 95666


The destroyer will also be equipped with a 96-cell (32+64) indigenous Vertical Launch System (MİDLAS), capable of launching a variety of advanced munitions.

View attachment 95662

View attachment 95664



Among the munitions deployable from MİDLAS are indigenous surface-to-air missiles, potentially from the SIPER air defense system, and the highly anticipated GEZGİN land-attack missiles.


Additionally, the destroyer will carry 16 ATMACA anti-ship missiles (AshM) for engaging naval and coastal targets.

For close-in defense, the destroyer will be fitted a RAM-like point defence missile system (probably Roketsan’s Levent or Aselsan’s Göksur) and Gökdeniz Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) will provide a critical layer of protection against incoming threats such as missiles and drones.

The TF-2000 is also expected to be armed with lightweight torpedoes for ASW, likely the Aselsan ORKA, to enhance its underwater combat capabilities.

View attachment 95667

ROKETSAN & ASELSAN Orka Yeni Nesil Hafif Torpido

2020 yılının son günlerinde ROKETSAN'nın ana yüklenici, ASELSAN'nın alt yüklenici olduğu Orka 275 mm Yeni Nesil Hafif Torpido Projesi başlatılmıştır.

mavivatan.net

Complementing these systems will be stabilized remote weapon systems, such as the ASELSAN STAMP and/or STOP, offering flexible and precise firepower for a range of scenarios.

View attachment 95665

The primary sensor for air survellience will be CAFRAD, a fixed face GaN AESA radar which can track more than 2000 contacts within 450 km range. It will also feature an LPI navigational radar, EO directors, integrated sonar system including bow mounted and towed array sonars (Aselsan Düfas), coupled to ADVENT combat management system.

There'd be no 6,000 ton evolution of the JCF. A ship that large would require a new design. The PN will likely concentrate on a larger number of smaller ships, so, at most the AS3600 is plausible.

Or, if the tech allows it, go smaller with well armed 1,500 ton or less corvettes.