China’s dream of ‘powerful currency’ runs Into Trump’s return

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Chinese leader Xi Jinping wants a "powerful currency” that is stable enough to play a rising role in global trade. Donald Trump’s return looks set to challenge that ambition.

The yuan risks years of downward pressure during the second Trump presidency, and the threat of another trade war is already fueling bets against the currency. Analysts expect the yuan to break a 17-year low against the dollar in 2025, with the most bearish observers predicting a decline of around 10%.

The yuan is more vulnerable than it was during the last trade war. Chinese government bond yields are well below those in the Unites States. Foreign companies are pulling back investments. Economic growth is patchy, and the specter of deflation may drag interest rates even lower.

"The downward pressure is likely to intensify,” said Adam Wolfe, emerging markets economist at Absolute Strategy Research. The People’s Bank of China "will likely continue to support the yuan for a while given its financial stability concerns about a bigger devaluation. But if a trade war does kick off, the PBOC might allow more depreciation to protect China’s exports and improve its negotiating position.”

That logic is encouraging traders to ramp up bets against the currency. The onshore yuan traded at an intraday low of around 7.248 on Nov. 14, its weakest level in three months, and options traders are betting on a further decline. The offshore rate was around 7.237 on Friday.

BNP Paribas expects the dollar-yuan to stabilize around 7.5 if Trump follows through on his pledge to impose 60% tariffs on Chinese goods, while UBS forecasts a rate of 7.60-7.70 next year and Societe Generale expects 7.40 in the second quarter. These forecasts all point to the onshore yuan breaching its low last year of 7.351, the weakest level since 2007.

Some analysts go even further: Jefferies Financial Group expects daily yuan fixings of around 8 yuan per dollar in 2025. The last time the yuan was at that level, in 2006, George W. Bush was president, Twitter was only a few months old and China’s economy was smaller than Germany’s.

Analysts say letting the yuan weaken is the path of least resistance, and one that benefits Chinese exports should the U.S. hike tariffs. But the real debate is about how much — and how fast — the PBOC will allow the currency to depreciate.

Beijing engineered a yuan devaluation in 2015, when the PBOC allowed a one-off 1.9% decline in the daily fixing rate. That triggered massive capital outflows and shrank China’s foreign currency reserves. It also strengthened U.S. arguments that the nation was a ‘currency manipulator,’ a designation that was made official in Trump’s first term.

"Devaluation of the yuan would mean further economic pressures and debt woes, as well as a threat of being tagged as a currency manipulator,” said Charu Chanana, chief investment strategist at Saxo Markets. She said the move would put further strains on the already tense relationship between China and the U.S.

More likely is the PBOC accepting a slow and steady depreciation — and relying on less direct measures to fight back.

In the past few years, the PBOC has refined its toolkit, as rapid interest-rate hikes by the Federal Reserve hit currencies across the world. China’s current FX playbook includes setting stronger daily fixings, which limit the trading range of its onshore currency each day; adjusting the amount of foreign exchange banks need to hold in reserve against deposits; and encouraging state-owned banks to manage liquidity in the offshore market.

The PBOC set the yuan’s reference rate at a level stronger than expected between Wednesday and Friday, signaling its discomfort with the recent decline, while state-owned banks sold dollars onshore. Traders are now keeping a close eye on offshore yuan funding markets, where expectations are building that state banks’ overseas units could tighten the supply of yuan to squeeze bearish wagers.

The PBOC unleashed a domestic stimulus blitz in late September, and other arms of China’s government have since followed with their own initiatives. Economists say if the stimulus is successful, it would help cushion the economy against shocks from U.S. tariffs.

Ironically, China’s aim to stem the yuan’s slide against the dollar may get support from Trump himself. The president-elect favors a weaker dollar, which would make U.S. goods cheaper for the rest of the world, although Wall Street banks think he’s unlikely to get his wish.

China has for years been promoting the internationalization of its currency, part of Xi’s broad ambition to turn the country into a global financial power. The government has had some success in spreading the overseas use of the currency, but Beijing sees a stable yuan — without extreme moves in either direction — as being key to further success.

"The worst case scenario for the CNY in my view would be if policymakers give up on the currency stability objective and allow for the CNY to rapidly depreciate,” said Lynn Song, chief Greater China economist at ING Bank NV. "This sort of decision will have to come from a change of thinking from the top, maybe a pivot away from the long term renminbi internationalization goals to focus more on short-term issues.”

That would be "very short-sighted and ineffective,” he said.
 
The yuan has already depreciated significantly since Trumps election.

This will drive Chinas GDP further down as US GDP continues to pull further away from China.
 
The yuan has already depreciated significantly since Trumps election.

This will drive Chinas GDP further down as US GDP continues to pull further away from China.

Yes US and their paper gdp of pot holed roads and healthcare. While the devalued Yuan economy is growing with better infrastructure and industry. Lololol
 
The yuan has already depreciated significantly since Trumps election.

This will drive Chinas GDP further down as US GDP continues to pull further away from China.

Trump keep saying that China is deliberately keeping it's currency down. So you saying that China will not be able to "appreciate and strengthens" it's currency against USD because trump is now in office who have multiple times declared china currency manipulator keeping it's currency undervalued to gain benefit in trade. ????

Now I understand your point.

Screenshot_20241202-195925.jpg
 
Yes US and their paper gdp of pot holed roads and healthcare. While the devalued Yuan economy is growing with better infrastructure and industry. Lololol

The US has simply hit another gear in growth, productivity, and innovation post COVID. Combine that with the near $2T strategic investment in the Chips, infrastructure, and clean energy bills and the US is pulling away from everyone economically.

Americans are simply more productive and innovative than Chinese.

2024 GDPs:

US- $29.2T
China- $18T
 
2024 GDPs:

US- $29.2T
China- $18T

I really admire USA as it has been on the forefront of innovation for about 80+ years. That being said, you can actually visually see Chinas $18T in Chinese cities, streets, and infrastructure. I don't think same is the case with USA's $29.2T . And many here will agree with me, maybe even you
 
I really admire USA as it has been on the forefront of innovation for about 80+ years. That being said, you can actually visually see Chinas $18T in Chinese cities, streets, and infrastructure. I don't think same is the case with USA's $29.2T . And many here will agree with me, maybe even you

A that’s the problem, you’re looking at shiny Chinese skyscrapers, while you should be looking at the American suburbs.

The average Chinese lives in a 600 sqft apartment, while the average American lives in 2,200 sqft homes.

The average American is far wealthier
 
China has been artificially keeping the value of Yaun low for many years. A further decline infact helps China as its an export economy and also helps its $1trn plus dollar holdings. Chinese are expecting trade wars with Trump, the irony will be IMO Trump will undo the positive economic development biden did and will increase inflation for the average american. At the end of his tenor Americas will be worser off.
 
A that’s the problem, you’re looking at shiny Chinese skyscrapers, while you should be looking at the American suburbs.

The average Chinese lives in a 600 sqft apartment, while the average American lives in 2,200 sqft homes.

The average American is far wealthier
You're wrong. The average American lives in a home that's 2,20000 square feet. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
1733159413185.png
 
A that’s the problem, you’re looking at shiny Chinese skyscrapers, while you should be looking at the American suburbs.

The average Chinese lives in a 600 sqft apartment, while the average American lives in 2,200 sqft homes.

The average American is far wealthier

"Shiny" Chinese Skyscrapers, Bullet trains connecting whole country, motorways and highways connecting whole country, war against desertification, push towards energy neutrality by increasing solar and wind energy on war footing, building whole new cities, water diversion projects diverting water from 1000s of kms away to cities, and what not.

On the other hand you only got example of suburb from USA, which by the way is majorly developed by private investments and firms. People spend millions to buy those properties. It's not like government is giving those "accomodations" to citizens for free.

GDP is something that is a bit different than purchasing power. The point I want to make is that USA may still be country of "wealthy" people. And wealth of those people you can see. But if I want to look at the wealth of America as a whole/nation, I just see a poor country, not someone with a GDP of $29.2 Trillion. Your universities are charging 100K+ USD in fees, citizens still have to pay thousands for a small surgery even after having insurance. These things matter
 
"Shiny" Chinese Skyscrapers, Bullet trains connecting whole country, motorways and highways connecting whole country, war against desertification, push towards energy neutrality by increasing solar and wind energy on war footing, building whole new cities, water diversion projects diverting water from 1000s of kms away to cities, and what not.

On the other hand you only got example of suburb from USA, which by the way is majorly developed by private investments and firms. People spend millions to buy those properties. It's not like government is giving those "accomodations" to citizens for free.

Americans will always prefer to drive or fly. High speed rail is not a priority for Americans.

The US interstate system has existed for decades.

US solar and wind capacity investment and deployment is at record highs. China CO2 emissions represents a third of the world. The US under 15%.

The US has invested $1.5T in infrastructure and clean energy upgrades. Over $600B has been allocated. That will take years to work through the economy.
 
"Shiny" Chinese Skyscrapers, Bullet trains connecting whole country, motorways and highways connecting whole country, war against desertification, push towards energy neutrality by increasing solar and wind energy on war footing, building whole new cities, water diversion projects diverting water from 1000s of kms away to cities, and what not.

On the other hand you only got example of suburb from USA, which by the way is majorly developed by private investments and firms. People spend millions to buy those properties. It's not like government is giving those "accomodations" to citizens for free.

GDP is something that is a bit different than purchasing power. The point I want to make is that USA may still be country of "wealthy" people. And wealth of those people you can see. But if I want to look at the wealth of America as a whole/nation, I just see a poor country, not someone with a GDP of $29.2 Trillion. Your universities are charging 100K+ USD in fees, citizens still have to pay thousands for a small surgery even after having insurance. These things matter

Here is a breakdown by state of infrastructure investments from the Biden $1T infrastructure bill:

 
"Shiny" Chinese Skyscrapers, Bullet trains connecting whole country, motorways and highways connecting whole country, war against desertification, push towards energy neutrality by increasing solar and wind energy on war footing, building whole new cities, water diversion projects diverting water from 1000s of kms away to cities, and what not.

On the other hand you only got example of suburb from USA, which by the way is majorly developed by private investments and firms. People spend millions to buy those properties. It's not like government is giving those "accomodations" to citizens for free.

GDP is something that is a bit different than purchasing power. The point I want to make is that USA may still be country of "wealthy" people. And wealth of those people you can see. But if I want to look at the wealth of America as a whole/nation, I just see a poor country, not someone with a GDP of $29.2 Trillion. Your universities are charging 100K+ USD in fees, citizens still have to pay thousands for a small surgery even after having insurance. These things matter

You only see a “poor” country because that’s what you want to see. The reality is much different:

​

Household Net Worth​

The net worth of households and nonprofit organizations increased by $2.8 trillion to $163.8 trillion in the second quarter. The change in household net worth reflects gains on both real estate holdings and corporate equity assets. The value of real estate on the household balance sheet increased by $1.8 trillion in the second quarter, while the value of directly and indirectly held equity rose by $0.7 trillion.

1733163177144.png


The US is far and away the wealthiest nation in human history.
 
As long as the rich folks are after $s to earmark the safety and security of their wealth, the US can keep on printing $ that can buy real stuffs from around the world. It's the plan....

As for the poor folks, the Chinese goods would be more purchasable. Not to mention the Chinese investments in those poor countries and liquidating their banks so that the imports from China keep on pouring in....

Looks like a win-win for the rich and the poor. But, the problem is those in the middle....
 
Americans will always prefer to drive or fly. High speed rail is not a priority for Americans.

The US interstate system has existed for decades.

US solar and wind capacity investment and deployment is at record highs. China CO2 emissions represents a third of the world. The US under 15%.

The US has invested $1.5T in infrastructure and clean energy upgrades. Over $600B has been allocated. That will take years to work through the economy.


Let's take example of bridges.

This was 2021 ASCE report.

ASCE's 2021 Infrastructure Report Card
https://infrastructurereportcard.org › ...PDF
Bridges

Screenshot_20241202-235641.jpg

And this is 2024.

Screenshot_20241202-235819.jpg

According to 2024 bridges condition, USA will need $400 billion just to repair these bridges. This is one aspect of infrastructure.

The US has invested $1.5T in infrastructure and clean energy upgrades. Over $600B has been allocated. That will take years to work through the economy

Exactly my point. Your current $29.2 Trillion doesn't seems to be equal to (or better than) Chinas $18 trillion when it comes to modern national infrastructure. Now, you had that edge in the past, and you may have it again in future, but today .. you don't have it.
 

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