A Look Inside Huawei’s Phone Shows How China’s Chip Advance Has Stalled


China already has a EUV prototype in sight.


Once they get that down, it will be over for ASML.


Patent is just that, a patent. Many patents have never worked out. A patent is not an EUV machine
 
Actually this is false. Bored housewives do not file any patent because patenting is a rather expensive legal process for an individual.

It only costs a few hundred dollars for an individual to file for a patent in the US.


The expensive fees are charged by patent attorneys that companies would use. Bored housewives and cranks will DIY their patent application.

Its the companies that file most and a lot of frivolous patents.

As someone who holds 7 patents for my employer, I know their motivation to file patent is rather very different. Companies file patents to ensure other companies are not able to threaten them. Having patents allows one major thing: it allows you to cross license patents and negotiate a deal out of legal threat of stopping the introduction of your product.

This is why likes of IBM are such a prolific patent filing company. Patents are primarily a tool for negotiation. Their working or not working or how well they are working is not that important. What is important is that your so called invention is interpreted so broadly that you can threaten others about violation of your patents if they threaten you with IPR violations lawsuits.

Any 'real' patent must stand up in court because companies will sue if they feel there is infringement. There are law firms that specialize in this type of litigation and a frivolous patent will not deter a competent law firm.

I used to (not any more) own stock in a tiny Australian company that is suing JP Morgan for patent infringement of their blockchain technology. JPM is playing the usual moneybags games of deflection and delay but the law firm handling the case, also American, knows the tricks.
 
It only costs a few hundred dollars for an individual to file for a patent in the US.

https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/USPTO-fee-schedule_current.pdf
The expensive fees are charged by patent attorneys that companies would use. Bored housewives and cranks will DIY their patent application.
You have to do a patent search to ensure that your invention is not a "prior art" ie already existing. Otherwise, it will end up being denied or cancelled later.

Any 'real' patent must stand up in court because companies will sue if they feel there is infringement. There are law firms that specialize in this type of litigation and a frivolous patent will not deter a competent law firm.

I used to (not any more) own stock in a tiny Australian company that is suing JP Morgan for patent infringement of their blockchain technology. JPM is playing the usual moneybags games of deflection and delay but the law firm handling the case, also American, knows the tricks.
There is no LEGAL requirement for a patent to be working or working well enough. Only novelty, non obviousness, usefulness, sufficient details in patent are the requirement. If a patent is not working or poorly working, it will still be granted if it is a new application and that will still stand in court of law.

This is very important in fabrication technology because fabrication technology is supposed to produce a certain yield to be effective to be commercially used. One can get a patent on EUV and it will even stand in court if it is noval application but it will be non viable if the yields are low. It will still be useful if your competitor introduces a real EUV solution and your lawyers can claim they have some parts similar to your patent. At the minimum it can derail their fundings etc. Or they to cut a deal with you, let you have some money or, more importantly, cross license the technology.

And yes, the tricks that JPM is playing are very important. Delaying a company from indroducing a product or increasing its legal cost is often the prime motive behind a patent. If you have enough patents, you can force someone to license their technology to you because you can delay their other customers. IBM does it very often.
 
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Patent is just that, a patent. Many patents have never worked out. A patent is not an EUV machine
Calm down China has completed first EUV light source prototype. China now has its own DUV lithography machines and a patent has been filed for EUV.Lmao China is also leading in photonic chips (analogue as they are known) which uses light instead of transistors.
These are 20,000 times more powerful and thousands of times less power as well.
1734558064808.jpeg
Success doesn't come overnight. All u little sissies need to calm your tits. Be patient!
 
Shanghai Microelectronics has recently applied for 6 EUV core patents in Germany, covering multiple aspects such as extreme ultraviolet light source, optical path and exposure system
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Huawei makes it extremely EZ for Xiaomi to steal market share in 2025. All who wants 3nm as opposed to 7nm self-designed chips raise their hand!
 
You have to do a patent search to ensure that your invention is not a "prior art" ie already existing. Otherwise, it will end up being denied or cancelled later.

The cost for filing the patent itself is only $64 for an individual. The 'few hundred dollars' I mentioned is precisely for the requisite search and determination fees. All told, it only takes a few hundred dollars to file for a US patent if you do it yourself.

There is no LEGAL requirement for a patent to be working or working well enough. Only novelty, non obviousness, usefulness, sufficient details in patent are the requirement. If a patent is not working or poorly working, it will still be granted if it is a new application and that will still stand in court of law.

This is very important in fabrication technology because fabrication technology is supposed to produce a certain yield to be effective to be commercially used. One can get a patent on EUV and it will even stand in court if it is noval application but it will be non viable if the yields are low. It will still be useful if your competitor introduces a real EUV solution and your lawyers can claim they have some parts similar to your patent. At the minimum it can derail their fundings etc. Or they to cut a deal with you, let you have some money or, more importantly, cross license the technology.

And yes, the tricks that JPM is playing are very important. Delaying a company from indroducing a product or increasing its legal cost is often the prime motive behind a patent. If you have enough patents, you can force someone to license their technology to you because you can delay their other customers. IBM does it very often.

I agree. A patent by itself is not a proof of viability or even correctness. My point was that companies will not file a patent for a technology unless they are prepared to back it up in court.

For a fabrication technology, a patent does not mean the process is commercially feasible or workable, but it means the company feels it is promising enough to protect it, just in case.

For the Chinese company in question, the patent is merely the first step. In biotech, commercialization can happen more than a decade after the initial patent is filed, so I agree that filing a patent does not mean China has a working, commercially viable EUV machine today. However, given the past track record of Chinese tech companies, that day is not far off.
 
China hasn’t proven anything. China has hit the DUV wall, and it has no EUV machines to advance to the next stage of development.

China only wants to purchase its domestic AI chips AKA Huawei Ascend 910C.


Biden has already banned its allies to sell the DUV machines to China, and China got its indigenous DUV.

Soon the indigenous EUV will be available anywhere between 2025-2027.

 
The chinos keep ignoring that huawua gets CCP subsidies and would not exist on its own.

China should learn from USA by making Huawei as a public company.

Then pouring billions of money so it never be called as "subsidies".
 
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In the tense geopolitical rivalry between China and the United States for control of advanced technology, Huawei is often in the middle.

The Chinese telecommunications giant is a main target of a U.S. trade blacklist and other controls intended to keep Chinese companies from buying or making advanced computer chips. Officials in Washington say these tiny chips, used to power chatbots and smartphones, are also essential for China’s efforts to build its military might.

Huawei is determined to prove that Washington’s trade barriers cannot hold it back. Last year, the company released a line of smartphones, the Mate 60, with chips more advanced than any previously made in China.

But Huawei’s new series of phones, the Mate 70, released last month, indicates that the company has made little progress toward more advanced chips in the past year, according to a new analysis. The chips inside Huawei’s latest devices appear to have been made using the same manufacturing processes as the ones in last year’s phones, said Alexandra Noguera, an analyst at TechInsights, a Canadian research firm.

Ms. Noguera and her colleagues examined the chips inside two models of the Mate 70 series and concluded that they were made by China’s top chipmaker, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation, known as SMIC.

The analysts compared the chips with others made by SMIC, including those in Huawei’s breakthrough Mate 60 phone. “Every dimension fits exactly what we have seen for the past two years,” Ms. Noguera said.

That is not a surprise: SMIC is the only company in China that can make such chips. The finding is notable, however, because it suggests that U.S. restrictions are at least stalling the country’s advances in chip technology.

“The primary impact of the export controls has not been reversing China’s progress, it has been making it very difficult for SMIC to increase production capacity,” said Gregory C. Allen, a technology expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank.

SMIC did not respond to a request for comment. Huawei declined to comment.

The Chinese government has made the manufacturing of computer chips and other advanced technology a major policy priority. China has poured billions of dollars into its chip industry, helping to fund a major expansion of factories.

SMIC, which has close ties to the government, has built factories at a blistering pace. It has grown into one of the largest contract chipmakers in the world, making products that are designed by its clients, including Huawei.

U.S. officials have progressively tightened restrictions to slow SMIC’s progress by limiting the kinds of chip-making tools it can buy from other countries. They have pushed Dutch and Japanese officials to stop their companies from supplying crucial machinery and equipment to SMIC’s most advanced factories.

That means SMIC depends on dated machinery. It is making even its most advanced chips using a manufacturing process that the world’s leading chipmaker, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, had perfected by 2018.

The latest Huawei devices do not contain more advanced chips because SMIC is probably unable to make them at a large enough scale, Ms. Noguera said.

“If they could, they would have,” she said.

Huawei’s devices are hugely popular in China. Its sales have grown faster than any other brand in China during the past year, according to Counterpoint Research, which analyzes the smartphone market.

But widespread commercial success for Huawei’s latest devices will depend in part on its ability to secure a steady supply of chips from SMIC.

And experts say SMIC is already pushing the limits of its outdated tools and factory processes to make enough chips for Huawei’s existing phones — a costly strategy that results in a high number of faulty chips.

In part to further slow SMIC’s advances, the Biden administration this month announced broader restrictions on advanced technology that can be sent to China. The updated rules add more than 100 Chinese companies, many of which make the tools and machinery needed to manufacture chips, to a restricted trade list.

Since the Mate 60 Pro was launched last year, Huawei has been eating into Apple’s yearslong dominance in China. In 2022, three-quarters of high-end smartphones sold in China were iPhones. This year, the portion was about half, as Huawei’s share more than doubled, according to Canalys, a market research firm.

“SMIC, like Huawei, has obviously suffered from U.S. restrictions,” said Dan Wang, a fellow at the Paul Tsai China Center at Yale Law School. “But what matters for Beijing is not its yield rate or profitability as much as whether it is able to deliver the technology that China needs.”
Yes it has. Now get your poms poms and cheer for America dude! LOL
 
From January to October this year, China's semiconductor exports reached 931.77 billion yuan, with an average monthly export of around 93 billion yuan. From the data of the past three years, the fourth quarter of each year is still the peak season for China's semiconductor exports. According to this trend, China's chip exports are expected to exceed one trillion yuan by November of this year.

today's exchange rate: 7.3 yuan = 1 dollar
 
By 2024, China's chip production is expected to exceed 400 billion pieces.
China is still the world's largest exporter of chips. According to the latest data released by the General Administration of Customs on December 10th, China's integrated circuit exports exceeded 1.03 trillion yuan for the first time in the first 11 months, with a year-on-year growth of 20.3%.
Many people's understanding of chips may be limited to chips such as mobile phones and computers. In fact, these are not the most important, but rather industrial, engineering, automotive, and home appliance chips. These chips are completely self-sufficient and cheaper. Some automotive grade chips used to cost thousands of yuan for imports, but now domestic ones only cost 1 yuan.
 

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