J-35 Over J-10C? How Bangladesh’s Choice Could Redefine Its Air Power

[Cookie Monster]

I think J-10's for a major buy then a smaller group of J-35's as force multipliers.

Ppl don’t understand that a majority of countries on earth can’t make up numbers with only 5th gen…this is a luxury for the few top economies that can have 5th gen jets in hundreds. For the rest it means 4+ gen for numbers and some 5th gen as tip of the spear or for missions where stealth is necessary.

 

[UKBengali]

Ppl don’t understand that a majority of countries on earth can’t make up numbers with only 5th gen…this is a luxury for the few top economies that can have 5th gen jets in hundreds. For the rest it means 4+ gen for numbers and some 5th gen as tip of the spear or for missions where stealth is necessary.

For BD it is not about "making up numbers".


It will probably only have 80-100 fighter aircraft in total and so with such small numbers it needs to make every plane count.

Splitting such a small number of planes between two completely different aircraft will have huge logistics, training and infrastructure costs. It may as well buy all J-35A fleet than splitting between J-10C and J-35A as the final costs will be similar. As an example the engines in the two fighters are not even the same and not in the same thrust class - WS-10B in J-10CE and WS-21 in J-35A.


PAF makes sense to split as it is much larger airforce(~300 fighter aircraft) and anyway it already has a large 4th generation fleet(F-16/JF-17/J-10CE) and so will can now add J-35A as a "spear" with 60-80 planes.


BAF has practically no 4th generation aircraft and by the time J-35A arrives, it will be time to retire its 8 Mig-29s.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Why would China sell 5th Gen tech to Bangladesh?

Because arguably Bangladesh is more important to secure for China than Pakistan…

 

[Michael Corleone]

Bangladesh air chief is open to pursuing 5th gen according to his statements. Everything comes down to political will. I don’t have high hopes for j35 in Bangladesh service but won’t be surprised if China arms bd with j35 either. If anything, two squadron of j35 is all the jet bd will ever need. They can focus the rest with loyal wingman like platform china is developing. Besides Bangladesh has shown interest in building up UAV capacity from west and turkey and arming with nato standards ground strike missiles. So yeah j35 with more upfront cost makes sense if you want to kill two bird with one stone… ie attain major capability against rival Air Force and build up capacity without focusing on number or worrying about bridging generational gap.

 

[Oscar]

Because arguably Bangladesh is more important to secure for China than Pakistan…

Not necessarily - nor is China there to “secure” anything. There are opportunities and every nation is looking to keep them in mind.

However, Bangladesh has to be secure for Bangladeshis bases on their interests and not relating to either China, India or other regional players.

Bangladesh air chief is open to pursuing 5th gen according to his statements. Everything comes down to political will. I don’t have high hopes for j35 in Bangladesh service but won’t be surprised if China arms bd with j35 either. If anything, two squadron of j35 is all the jet bd will ever need. They can focus the rest with loyal wingman like platform china is developing. Besides Bangladesh has shown interest in building up UAV capacity from west and turkey and arming with nato standards ground strike missiles. So yeah j35 with more upfront cost makes sense if you want to kill two bird with one stone… ie attain major capability against rival Air Force and build up capacity without focusing on number or worrying about bridging generational gap.

5th Gen really does not serve the needs for BD’s situation - having a pure 5th gen fleet is expensive and not scalable - moreover for Area denial roles 5th gen is ill suited and the electronic environment over BD means that the effectiveness of “hiding” a 5th gen wont really be useful.

BD needs a very dense layered and extremely mobile AD before it gets a fighter.
The lessons of 71 may still be pertinent - mobile LOMADS - SHORADs - protecting a few “forts” of HIMADs mixed in with interceptors.

For the foreseeable future any potential adversary does not have LO coming - it will come down to attrition.

You CANNOT prevent a much larger adversary from eventually coming in especially if they surround you from multiple sides. However, you can make the cost so expensive to them that they need to really consider if they could wage war on another front if they undertake an operation against you

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

While it is good to discuss BD does not even have a "real" government yet.

Earliest we will see a puchase for fighters is 2027/2028.

When was the last time Bangladesh actually placed an order for fighter aircrafts?

Despite significant growth on the economic side, the country doesn't seem to have secured that economy military like other nations have.

It seems to be design like it is between Ukraine and Russia.

 

[Cookie Monster]

For BD it is not about "making up numbers".


It will probably only have 80-100 fighter aircraft in total and so with such small numbers it needs to make every plane count.

Splitting such a small number of planes between two completely different aircraft will have huge logistics, training and infrastructure costs. It may as well buy all J-35A fleet than splitting between J-10C and J-35A as the final costs will be similar. As an example the engines in the two fighters are not even the same and not in the same thrust class - WS-10B in J-10CE and WS-21 in J-35A.


PAF makes sense to split as it is much larger airforce(~300 fighter aircraft) and anyway it already has a large 4th generation fleet(F-16/JF-17/J-10CE) and so will can now add J-35A as a "spear" with 60-80 planes.


BAF has practically no 4th generation aircraft and by the time J-35A arrives, it will be time to retire its 8 Mig-29s.

Read a few posts below ur above quoted post…by Oscar regarding BD Air Force and 5th gen(post#20). I was basically going to reply in the same manner but it would just be redundant.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I was joking there.

Of course I agree that you need a mininum level of GDP growth before the government has or can justify spending so much money on advanced fighters like J-35As.

Anyway by the time an order is placed for fighters(2027/2028 at the earliest) the IG won't be there. It has no mandate to commit the nation to such a large and strategic weapons purchase that will tie BD to China for decades to some. Like I say it is not a "real' government unlike some who say otherwise.

It’s not a real government because none of its laws will be upheld by any court once it is out of power.

No conglomerate or country will sign financial/commercial deals with IG knowing no international arbitration will uphold those agreements/treaties.

It’s akin to your neighbour getting their party wall agreement signed by your teenage child lol

Planning office will just flash it down the toilet!

 

[BananaRepublic]

Because arguably Bangladesh is more important to secure for China than Pakistan…

Secure for what?

China is clever enough to know BD airforce will never engage Indian airforce. Because it would be absolutely suicidal.

Hence primary use is against the Burmese junta. A junta that China allies with in order to keep USA and India out.

Will China supply parts in a war with Burma?

@UKBengali for that reason I believe BD needs to buy Turkish.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Not necessarily - nor is China there to “secure” anything. There are opportunities and every nation is looking to keep them in mind.

However, Bangladesh has to be secure for Bangladeshis bases on their interests and not relating to either China, India or other regional players.

What I mean by this is for China to counter India strategically they’ll need Myanmar and Bangladesh. China still has border disputes with Indians in north east and these regions aren’t as rocky mountainous as the region with Pakistan and India. Pakistan will always remain an important partner for China as they possess a strong military and nuclear deterrent but having a strong bangladesh allied to China guarantees India always struggles with rivalry against China.

5th Gen really does not serve the needs for BD’s situation - having a pure 5th gen fleet is expensive and not scalable - moreover for Area denial roles 5th gen is ill suited and the electronic environment over BD means that the effectiveness of “hiding” a 5th gen wont really be useful.

BD needs a very dense layered and extremely mobile AD before it gets a fighter.
The lessons of 71 may still be pertinent - mobile LOMADS - SHORADs - protecting a few “forts” of HIMADs mixed in with interceptors.

For the foreseeable future any potential adversary does not have LO coming - it will come down to attrition.

You CANNOT prevent a much larger adversary from eventually coming in especially if they surround you from multiple sides. However, you can make the cost so expensive to them that they need to really consider if they could wage war

That’s the whole point. Bd doesn’t need scale with an advanced platform. Rn what I’m seeing BAF focus is more on unmanned platforms… money is being spent on research of strike capable UAVs instead of a homegrown manned jet aircraft of any kind. You’ve a point about detection though… that would make it questionable on its viability in bd context.

SHORADs yes bd is focusing on this and short range. However I would like if bd expands into medium and long range air defence systems.

Any potential war with India will be decided in the air… especially for bd. Multiple Indian generals have concluded why invading bd would be unsuccessful. There’s no way any nation wins a conventional war on Bangladeshi land… the geography doesn’t permit it. If they want maximum damage they’ll need air superiority and ground strikes to debilitate the nation.

I wish you could understand the discussion here, the situation between India and Bangladesh and ways to tackle it militarily. Maybe the autocaptions will work.
Post in thread 'New-Chill Bangladesh Thread'
https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/new-chill-bangladesh-thread.653/post-485934

 

[UKBengali]

Secure for what?

China is clever enough to know BD airforce will never engage Indian airforce. Because it would be absolutely suicidal.

Hence primary use is against the Burmese junta. A junta that China allies with in order to keep USA and India out.

Will China supply parts in a war with Burma?

@UKBengali for that reason I believe BD needs to buy Turkish.

Myanmar can be taken care off using an IADS network composed of MRSAM and 2-3 batteries of LRSAM.

I doubt whether it can afford even 20 J-35As due to the cost and its tiny primitive economy. It may not even be correct to call it a unified country.

The whole point of buying J-35A and potentially KAAN in 2030s is to have a minimum deterrent against India.

Of course the chances are pretty remote(still non-zero by mid century) but India is the only serious threat to BD sovereignty.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Myanmar can be taken care off using an IADS network composed of MRSAM and 2-3 batteries of LRSAM.

I doubt whether it can afford even 20 J-35As due to the cost and its tiny primitive economy. It may not even be correct to call it a unified country.

The whole point of buying J-35A and potentially KAAN in 2030s is to have a minimum deterrent against India.

Of course the chances are pretty remote(still non-zero by mid century) but India is the only serious threat to BD sovereignty.

As far as I’m concerned. Myanmar seized to exist a while ago. It’s just a shogunate atm with no one party in de facto control of the state. China will make sure they don’t go out of line and steer their decision making in their favor against India. We should keep our relationship with China good, that’s all that matters… and our main focus should be India. Burma will lie down with whoever is giving it more money

 

[UKBengali]

Read a few posts below ur above quoted post…by Oscar regarding BD Air Force and 5th gen(post#20). I was basically going to reply in the same manner but it would just be redundant.

I don’t agree with that analysis.

BD can protect its fighters using hardened underground shelters and under some hilly and mountainous areas.

Also Pakistan is not that wide and so the problems that BAF has will also be present to some extent in Pakistan. Remember that in any hypothetical war between BAF and IAF, BAF would be looking to negate IAF assets as quickly as possible in the NE States.

BD is rich enough to afford 80-100 J-35As or a mix of J-35A/KAAN.

Time to start procuring a new type of 4th generation fighter is gone now.

If poorer Pakistan can afford 300 4+/5th generation fighters, then richer BD can afford a fleet of 80-100 5th generation fighters.

Of course BD also needs to build up an IADS but this cannot be any substitute for modern and contemporary fighters.

 

[BananaRepublic]

As far as I’m concerned. Myanmar seized to exist a while ago. It’s just a shogunate atm with no one party in de facto control of the state. China will make sure they don’t go out of line and steer their decision making in their favor against India. We should keep our relationship with China good, that’s all that matters… and our main focus should be India. Burma will lie down with whoever is giving it more money

Burma is the Syria of South Asia.

Far too many competing ethnicities to be a coherent country.

They don’t even have a common enemy.

 

[Afif]

Not necessarily - nor is China there to “secure” anything. There are opportunities and every nation is looking to keep them in mind.

However, Bangladesh has to be secure for Bangladeshis bases on their interests and not relating to either China, India or other regional players.


5th Gen really does not serve the needs for BD’s situation - having a pure 5th gen fleet is expensive and not scalable - moreover for Area denial roles 5th gen is ill suited and the electronic environment over BD means that the effectiveness of “hiding” a 5th gen wont really be useful.

BD needs a very dense layered and extremely mobile AD before it gets a fighter.
The lessons of 71 may still be pertinent - mobile LOMADS - SHORADs - protecting a few “forts” of HIMADs mixed in with interceptors.

I very agree with this proposal of prioritizing IADS over fighter procurement, if India was to be our sole concern. However, BD India tension doesn't have military aspect yet. (No matter what online folks says) So that's why will likely prioritize fighter procurement. Because there's an ungrency of gaining qualitative edge over Myanmar.

As for your point on 5th gen fighter I disagree.