J-35 Over J-10C? How Bangladesh’s Choice Could Redefine Its Air Power

[Michael Corleone]

BD is rich enough to afford 80-100 J-35As or a mix of J-35A/KAAN.

Not happening bro particularly without an elaborate defence industry. Pakistan can afford because they sell their arms to other nations, we hardly ever had any customers and our manufacturing is no where near Pakistan. Also bd can’t afford 80-100 jets. Not with a defence budget of 1% of gdp. 40 or so jets Pakistan is buying would still cost 4 bln dollars accounting for already having existing infrastructure, armaments etc. Bangladesh can hardly afford 1 squadron with current budget.

I wouldn’t expect anything substantial like j35 unless we 2x our budget.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Not happening bro particularly without an elaborate defence industry. Pakistan can afford because they sell their arms to other nations, we hardly ever had any customers and our manufacturing is no where near Pakistan. Also bd can’t afford 80-100 jets. Not with a defence budget of 1% of gdp. 40 or so jets Pakistan is buying would still cost 4 bln dollars accounting for already having existing infrastructure, armaments etc. Bangladesh can hardly afford 1 squadron with current budget.

I wouldn’t expect anything substantial like j35 unless we 2x our budget.

More to the point - is BD’s sky big enough for more than 40-50 jets?

Unless you want them used for offence deep into enemy territory?

BD should aim for a small number of the best jets with plenty of spare parts capacity.

Airforce should be used to shell hostile Burmese junta positions around border - particularly to deter ethnic cleansing.

BD airforce should have a specific limited remit.

 

[UKBengali]

Not happening bro particularly without an elaborate defence industry. Pakistan can afford because they sell their arms to other nations, we hardly ever had any customers and our manufacturing is no where near Pakistan. Also bd can’t afford 80-100 jets. Not with a defence budget of 1% of gdp. 40 or so jets Pakistan is buying would still cost 4 bln dollars accounting for already having existing infrastructure, armaments etc. Bangladesh can hardly afford 1 squadron with current budget.

I wouldn’t expect anything substantial like j35 unless we 2x our budget.

Well Awami League allowed BD defence budget to fall from historical average of 1.3% of GDP all the way down to 0,9%.

Just allowing it to rise back to long term average will increase defence budget from 4 to 6 billion dollars a year.

Those 80-100 J-35As/KAAN would be paid off over a period like 15-20 years.

As long as BD is serious about defence then it is affordable. If they go back to BNP 2001-2006 and also AL 2009-2024 then “No way Jose!”.

The money Pakistan makes from defence sales is exaggerated and most of the revenue from sales such as JF-17 goes to China/Russia which supply the most expensive sub-systems and weapons like radar, engine and missiles.

@BananaRepublic Of course BD skies is “big enough” for 80-100 fighter aircraft as it has a landmass that of England and Wales and there is also the Bay of Bengal.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Well Awami League allowed BD defence budget to fall from historical average of 1.3% of GDP all the way down to 0,9%.

Just allowing it to rise back to long term average will increase defence budget from 4 to 6 billion dollars a year.

Those 80-100 J-35As/KAAN would be paid off over a period like 15-20 years.

As long as BD is serious about defence then it is affordable. If they go back to BNP 1996-2001 and also AL 2009-2024 then “No way Jose!”.

The money Pakistan makes from defence sales is exaggerated and most of the revenue from sales such as JF-17 goes to China/Russia which supply the most expensive sub-systems and weapons like radar, engine and missiles.

@BananaRepublic Of course BD skies is “big enough” for 80-100 fighter aircraft as it has a landmass that of England and Wales and there is also the Bay of Bengal.

Using percentage of GDP as measure is a bit mischievous. Very unlike you.

Hasina spent more on defence than the two military idiot presidents put together.

Remember the ramshackle crap that used to be paraded under Zia and Ershad. Truly embarrassing.

We now have subs, war ships, advanced artillery and tanks.

Btw, U.K. airforce is mainly for defence of nato. Not for U.K. airspace. Oh! And cowering the Arabs lok

 

[Cookie Monster]

I don’t agree with that analysis.

BD can protect its fighters using hardened underground shelters and under some hilly and mountainous areas.

Also Pakistan is not that wide and so the problems that BAF has will also be present to some extent in Pakistan. Remember that in any hypothetical war between BAF and IAF, BAF would be looking to negate IAF assets as quickly as possible in the NE States.

BD is rich enough to afford 80-100 J-35As or a mix of J-35A/KAAN.

Time to start procuring a new type of 4th generation fighter is gone now.

If poorer Pakistan can afford 300 4+/5th generation fighters, then richer BD can afford a fleet of 80-100 5th generation fighters.

Of course BD also needs to build up an IADS but this cannot be any substitute for modern and contemporary fighters.

Well then let’s agree to disagree. I standby my opinion that any air force needs a mix of high/low fighter jets…
…whether it’s with a mix of 4th gen and 5th gen aircraft’s…or in the near future with more drones being involved(forming the low in the high low) working in tandem with a fighter jet(s).
As of yet I have never seen an air force with a high/high type of make up for its fighter jets.

 

[UKBengali]

Using percentage of GDP as measure is a bit mischievous. Very unlike you.

Hasina spent more on defence than the two military idiot presidents put together.

Remember the ramshackle crap that used to be paraded under Zia and Ershad. Truly embarrassing.

We now have subs, advanced artillery and tanks.

Yes I know but not buying a SINGLE 4th generation fighter or even MRSAM battery in 15 years is why I said AL were weak on defence. Not having a deterrent/defence against Myanmar is shameful for BD

They were really good in 1996-2001 when they wanted to buy 32 F-16s and so when this was turned down they placed an order for 16 +16 Mig-29s

The idiot BNP cancelled after only 8 Mig-29s were delivered and even wanted to sell them saying “they were not needed”!

I should have been more fair on them and said they only dropped defence budget from historical average of 1.3% to 0.9% over last 2-3 years due to COVID-19 and Ukraine war.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Yes I know but not buying a SINGLE 4th generation fighter or even MRSAM battery in 15 years is why I said AL were weak on defence. Not having a deterrent/defence against MAG is shameful for BD

They were really good in 1996-2001 when they wanted to buy 32 F-16s and so when this was turned down they placed an order for 16 +16 Mig-29s

The idiot BNP cancelled after only 8 Mig-29s were delivered and even wanted to sell them saying “they were not needed”!

I should have been more fair on them and said they only dropped defence budget from historical average of 1.3% to 0.9% over last 2-3 years due to COVID-19 and Ukraine war.

I blame the BD airforce idiots who couldn’t agree on what they wanted.

She got frustrated and spent the money on subs instead.

And BNP ofcourse are also major culprits.

If they did not cancel the migs - Rohingya eviction doesn’t happen!

 

[UKBengali]

I blame the BD airforce idiots who couldn’t agree on what they wanted.

She got frustrated and spent the money on subs instead.

And BNP ofcourse are also major culprits.

If they did not cancel the migs - Rohingya eviction doesn’t happen!

Bro, she is Commander in Chief and did not force it to happen after Rohingya were pushed into BD in 2017.

At the least start creating a MRSAM network but alas nothing.

 

[UKBengali]

Other thing people forget is that BD will want to if possible balance large weapons purchases between China and Turkey.

That is another reason that a split buy of 80-100 J-35A/KAAN makes more sense than J-10CE followed by J-35A.

Yes it is more expensive but offers more capability and also aligns with BD’s strategic objectives.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Other thing people forget is that BD will want to if possible balance large weapons purchases between China and Turkey.

That is another reason that a split buy of 80-100 J-35A/KAAN makes more sense than J-10CE followed by J-35A.

Yes it is more expensive but offers more capability and also aligns with BD’s strategic objectives.

Yes! BD is most likely to go into a war with Burma instead of India.

And China is compromised in that areana.

 

[Michael Corleone]

More to the point - is BD’s sky big enough for more than 40-50 jets?

Unless you want them used for offence deep into enemy territory?

BD should aim for a small number of the best jets with plenty of spare parts capacity.

Airforce should be used to shell hostile Burmese junta positions around border - particularly to deter ethnic cleansing.

BD airforce should have a specific limited remit.

Airspace isn’t an issue. During ww2 England with similar size airspace had to throw hundreds of thousands of aircraft’s to win Battle of Britain.

What matters is assessing the requirement of bd to deter Indian aggression and even in a defensive scenario, offensive capabilities is needed.

With j10c bd would probably require maybe a minimum of 5 squadrons to deter Indian threat but with something like j35 maybe 2-3 would be enough….

Rn the border and Rakhine region as a whole is completely under Arakan army control. This group listens to China so they’re less of a threat to us and more of a threat to India. Janta government recently launched their new frigates but they lost their naval base that’s pointed towards Bangladesh. Burma was never a real threat to bd. It’s hasina’s indecisiveness that encouraged their misadventures. Also that hag thought she would win a Nobel prize for letting in a million people. I opposed it at the time and got cussed for it but guess who’s right?

Anyways my thoughts do not reflect any plan or intention of bd buying j35. Frankly j10 is the only viable option given the economic recovery that’s needed at the moment.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Those 80-100 J-35As/KAAN would be paid off over a period like 15-20 years.

If bd invests a couple of billion in development cost in exchange of building parts of the airframe or lighter spares in projects such as the Kaan then it is very much possible to be able to afford a respectable 5th gen fleet.

The other option is getting China to convert the current overhauling facilities for j35 and have spares built here like digital avionics, rubber components etc that way j35 can completely do all fleet duties.

But more realistic is j10 especially given Bengali incompetence in envisioning a future and lack of political will. But this decision will keep us 2 generations behind perpetually.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Well then let’s agree to disagree. I standby my opinion that any air force needs a mix of high/low fighter jets…
…whether it’s with a mix of 4th gen and 5th gen aircraft’s…or in the near future with more drones being involved(forming the low in the high low) working in tandem with a fighter jet(s).
As of yet I have never seen an air force with a high/high type of make up for its fighter jets.

Loyal wingman’s are going to replace fourth gen fleets in all major air forces in the future. Chinese 6th gen aircraft also points to that philosophy

 

[BananaRepublic]

Airspace isn’t an issue. During ww2 England with similar size airspace had to throw hundreds of thousands of aircraft’s to win Battle of Britain.

What matters is assessing the requirement of bd to deter Indian aggression and even in a defensive scenario, offensive capabilities is needed.

With j10c bd would probably require maybe a minimum of 5 squadrons to deter Indian threat but with something like j35 maybe 2-3 would be enough….

Rn the border and Rakhine region as a whole is completely under Arakan army control. This group listens to China so they’re less of a threat to us and more of a threat to India. Janta government recently launched their new frigates but they lost their naval base that’s pointed towards Bangladesh. Burma was never a real threat to bd. It’s hasina’s indecisiveness that encouraged their misadventures. Also that hag thought she would win a Nobel prize for letting in a million people. I opposed it at the time and got cussed for it but guess who’s right?

Anyways my thoughts do not reflect any plan or intention of bd buying j35. Frankly j10 is the only viable option given the economic recovery that’s needed at the moment.

The RAF was deployed throughout Europe and empire.

Not just U.K..

So not a good analogy.

 

[UKBengali]

Loyal wingman’s are going to replace fourth gen fleets in all major air forces in the future. Chinese 6th gen aircraft also points to that philosophy

Also routine patrols and surveillance can be done by UAV. You do not need an expensive manned 5th generation jets to do that.

This "mixed fleet" philosophy only really applies to large airforces and those air forces that already have numbers of 4th generation fighters like USAF and PLAAF.

Due to AL incompetence and maybe malign intent, BAF now has the chance to start with a "clean sheet".

80-100 aircraft is affordable as long as BD is serious about being a proud sovereign country, but of course with ideally splitting between Turkey and China that would mean two sets of infrastructure, logistics and maintenance facilities with higher cost.

I don't think China would give any production facilities in return for buying 40-50 J-35As but Turkey may be open to it. As BD's indigenous aerospace technology progresses over the next decade with hopefully a jet trainer designed and maybe flying by the time it is ready to induct KAAN in the mid-2030s then BD would be capable of building more parts in BD as part of a purchase deal.

J-10CE serves no spurpose as it is not required for the shambolic disintegrating savages in Myanmar and they will be too few in number to be any threat to the IAF with its hundreds of Rafales and Su-30MKIs.

BAF must go for the absolute best quality that it can afford and yet again no purchase deal will be made before 2027/2028 when the current economic difficulties will probably be over.