J-35 Over J-10C? How Bangladesh’s Choice Could Redefine Its Air Power

[UKBengali]

The RAF was deployed throughout Europe and empire.

Not just U.K..

So not a good analogy.

How large is the Dutch airforce with a land area 1/3rd that of BD?

They have 40 F-35s and 18 more on order. Yes they are part of Nato but no-one expects Netherlands to protect them. As long as they can safeguard their ownspace that is good enough for the rest of Nato.

 

[BananaRepublic]

How large is the Dutch airforce with a land area 1/3rd that of BD?

They have 40 F-35s and 18 more on order. Yes they are part of Nato but no-one expects Netherlands to protect them. As long as they can safeguard their ownspace that is good enough for the rest of Nato.

Again! Dutch airforce is scaled for NATO. So, not analogous to BD.

But at max they will still have less than 50 active fighters.

Dutch also love getting involved in Middle East wars.

And have some dependent territories.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Loyal wingman’s are going to replace fourth gen fleets in all major air forces in the future. Chinese 6th gen aircraft also points to that philosophy

That’s a distant future for the air forces of developing countries. Only air forces with huge budgets and those countries with the capability to develop such stuff can try it out…for the rest…add another decade for them to get their hands on such stuff.
In general air forces with limited budgets will not want to put their limited amount of money on the line to try something out first…until it has been fully fleshed out and proven.
Secondly countries developing such stuff and introducing it in their own air force…would of course build such things for their air force first…rather than focus on exporting it.

 

[Michael Corleone]

That’s a distant future for the air forces of developing countries. Only air forces with huge budgets and those countries with the capability to develop such stuff can try it out…for the rest…add another decade for them to get their hands on such stuff.
In general air forces with limited budgets will not want to put their limited amount of money on the line to try something out first…until it has been fully fleshed out and proven.
Secondly countries developing such stuff and introducing it in their own air force…would of course build such things for their air force first…rather than focus on exporting it.

Which is why countries with limited finances are seeking UAV instead. I recently learnt that Bangladesh has integrated Turkish ground attack missiles on falcon drones from Leonardo. Those weren’t even designed for attack missions

 

[Strider]

Which is why countries with limited finances are seeking UAV instead. I recently learnt that Bangladesh has integrated Turkish ground attack missiles on falcon drones from Leonardo. Those weren’t even designed for attack missions

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[Oscar]

I very agree with this proposal of prioritizing IADS over fighter procurement, if India was to be our sole concern. However, BD India tension doesn't have military aspect yet. (No matter what online folks says) So that's why will likely prioritize fighter procurement. Because there's an ungrency of gaining qualitative edge over Myanmar.

As for your point on 5th gen fighter I disagree.

I gave it as a scenario of preparing for any scenario - Myanmar is tackled by a purchase of Gripens. They are in my view the ideal assets - ~36(even 28) split between two squadrons.

 

[Quwa]

I gave it as a scenario of preparing for any scenario - Myanmar is tackled by a purchase of Gripens. They are in my view the ideal assets - ~36(even 28) split between two squadrons.

IMO... Bangladesh should lean into South Korea.

While the Gripen (especially E/F) is a very good aircraft, the FA-50 offers better scalability. It has more users, uses South Korea's native industrial capacity (rather than a network of 3rd-party suppliers), and draws on different munitions suppliers (giving the end-user lots of choice).

I also think the BAF can probably field around 3 squadrons of FA-50s (2 full-time combat and 1 dual-combat/LIFT + OCU) for the cost of 2 Gripen units. Poland paid an all-in cost of around $65 m per FA-50, while the Gripen E/F clears over $100 m a unit.

ROK is even developing a single-engine variant of the FA-50. So, there's really no hang-up to acquiring the FA-50. The BAF can plausibly order 48 such aircraft for $3.5 billion US (at $75 m per unit): x3 combat squadrons and x1 dual-LIFT/OCU unit.

I'm sure the ROK government would extend a credit line. Heck, they can even tie it into a bunch of offsets whereby South Korean companies invest in Bangladesh, possibly even in critical sectors like semiconductor fab work and the like.

From a technical standpoint, I'm sure Leonardo and MBDA would gladly arm said FA-50s with the Grifo-E AESA radar and Meteor AAM, respectively. If not the Meteor AAM, then the South Koreans can probably provide a credible solution. Bangladesh can speak to either Turkiye or Pakistan for SOW options, be it PGBs or ALCMs.

The next step after a FA-50 purchase would be to seek the KAI KF-21; that platform could form their longer-ranged reach (maritime A2/AD, deep strike, etc).

If they need anything from Saab, it should be the GlobalEye AEW&C and possibly a custom stand-off range ECM/EA aircraft.

 

[Ak01]

IMO... Bangladesh should lean into South Korea.

While the Gripen (especially E/F) is a very good aircraft, the FA-50 offers better scalability. It has more users, uses South Korea's native industrial capacity (rather than a network of 3rd-party suppliers), and draws on different munitions suppliers (giving the end-user lots of choice).

I also think the BAF can probably field around 3 squadrons of FA-50s (2 full-time combat and 1 dual-combat/LIFT + OCU) for the cost of 2 Gripen units. Poland paid an all-in cost of around $65 m per FA-50, while the Gripen E/F clears over $100 m a unit.

ROK is even developing a single-engine variant of the FA-50. So, there's really no hang-up to acquiring the FA-50. The BAF can plausibly order 48 such aircraft for $3.5 billion US (at $75 m per unit): x3 combat squadrons and x1 dual-LIFT/OCU unit.

I'm sure the ROK government would extend a credit line. Heck, they can even tie it into a bunch of offsets whereby South Korean companies invest in Bangladesh, possibly even in critical sectors like semiconductor fab work and the like.

From a technical standpoint, I'm sure Leonardo and MBDA would gladly arm said FA-50s with the Grifo-E AESA radar and Meteor AAM, respectively. If not the Meteor AAM, then the South Koreans can probably provide a credible solution. Bangladesh can speak to either Turkiye or Pakistan for SOW options, be it PGBs or ALCMs.

The next step after a FA-50 purchase would be to seek the KAI KF-21; that platform could form their longer-ranged reach (maritime A2/AD, deep strike, etc).

If they need anything from Saab, it should be the GlobalEye AEW&C and possibly a custom stand-off range ECM/EA aircraft.

If they need anything from Saab, it should be the GlobalEye AEW&C and possibly a custom stand-off range ECM/EA aircraft.

I think this would be a waste for anything other than peacetime. They cant sufficiently protect and disperse these from Indian assets during any form of conflict. These will just be a massive strike me sign and would likely be taken out before they even get airborne sadly.

Bangladesh, IMO needs to be able to disperse its capabilities and assets. I dont like helicopter borne AEW, but, for a country like Bangladesh, with little airspace to cover and little depth, having heliborne AEW could sufficiently allow them to not only hide, but also dispatch them from anywhere and everywhere. In 4 years, crowsnest will retire. BD has quite a good opportunity to pick these up at discount prices.

Alongside crows nest, again, the issue of fighters arises.

I believe that the best bet for BD is to pick up more Yak 130s but have some integration of a BVRAAM, whether it be an R77 or whether it be procurement of the M346FA and AMRAAM/MICA, there seems to be little point in equipping BD with 48 aircraft, too much infrastructure, too little to gain IMO. Realistically, what capability against India would BD find itself gaining via the procurement of FA50's? I suspect, very little vs procuring more yaks or m346 instead.

Its likely going to be a case of delaying the inevitable, a procurement of 3 squadrons wouldnt make the conflict costly enough for India, it would only just marginally delay the Indians, the fleet would get wiped out relatively quickly.

BD is better set spending the money on a mixture of really mobile AD, mobile AShM launchers and also alot of mobile arty and MLRS systems alongside some Yaks or M346 to provide some limited air cover. Having alot of mobile AD would be significantly more effective than aircraft in Bangladesh situation IMO. Imagine coming up against HQ-17ae shooting on the move alongside similar, but longer ranged systems

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

BD should go for drones instead of high value items.

 

[Quwa]

I think this would be a waste for anything other than peacetime. They cant sufficiently protect and disperse these from Indian assets during any form of conflict. These will just be a massive strike me sign and would likely be taken out before they even get airborne sadly.

Bangladesh, IMO needs to be able to disperse its capabilities and assets. I dont like helicopter borne AEW, but, for a country like Bangladesh, with little airspace to cover and little depth, having heliborne AEW could sufficiently allow them to not only hide, but also dispatch them from anywhere and everywhere. In 4 years, crowsnest will retire. BD has quite a good opportunity to pick these up at discount prices.

Alongside crows nest, again, the issue of fighters arises.

I believe that the best bet for BD is to pick up more Yak 130s but have some integration of a BVRAAM, whether it be an R77 or whether it be procurement of the M346FA and AMRAAM/MICA, there seems to be little point in equipping BD with 48 aircraft, too much infrastructure, too little to gain IMO. Realistically, what capability against India would BD find itself gaining via the procurement of FA50's? I suspect, very little vs procuring more yaks or m346 instead.

Its likely going to be a case of delaying the inevitable, a procurement of 3 squadrons wouldnt make the conflict costly enough for India, it would only just marginally delay the Indians, the fleet would get wiped out relatively quickly.

BD is better set spending the money on a mixture of really mobile AD, mobile AShM launchers and also alot of mobile arty and MLRS systems alongside some Yaks or M346 to provide some limited air cover. Having alot of mobile AD would be significantly more effective than aircraft in Bangladesh situation IMO. Imagine coming up against HQ-17ae shooting on the move alongside similar, but longer ranged systems

Yak-130s would be tough due to Russia's wartime situation and the general environment of sanctions. Unlike Pakistan, I think Bangladesh is in a good place in terms of foreign and economic relations, especially with countries like South Korea. Best they keep that going and exact as many concessions, like manufacturing-related FDI and, potentially, tech-transfers for semiconductors and other critical industries. So, IMO, it'd be better for BD to avoid Russia, avoid China, and, frankly, avoid Pakistan (from a defense industry PoV).

As @Oscar noted above, any fixed-wing fighter acquisition would be for neutralizing Myanmar. IMO, that should be a major priority for BD as they cannot afford to have two exposed flanks. Moreover, BD should start gradually flexing and expanding its writ into Arakan so as to settle the Rohingya issue once and for all.

In terms of India, they'll need to coordinate with Pakistan and procure from Turkiye. On the coordination front, there needs to be a plan in place to divide India's resources into a 3-way split: West (Pakistan), North (China), and East (BD).

Provided the West and North are active fronts, I don't think BD would have face the full brunt of India's might. Of course, this is contingent on Pakistan really stepping up as a credible land, air, and naval threat (the growth in the PN submarine fleet will be key).

For its part, however, I agree with you in that BD should be investing in mobile artillery as well as guided rocket and LACM/ASCM capabilities. They can acquire all of that off-the-shelf from Turkiye and, potentially, license manufacture the rockets. Furthermore, multi-layered and extensive IADS via PDMS+CIWS, MR-SAM, and LR-SAM (SIPER?) is key.

They have a good naval opportunity too... They ought to speak to ROK or Turkiye for new conventional submarines. In fact, that should be their primary naval focus, i.e., build a disproportionately large sub-surface fleet of ~1,500-ton SSKs, <500-ton SWATS, and a lot of UUV/AUVs. Station mobile ASCM launchers and SAMs by the coasts.

Basically, the idea should be to build enough to deny India access and control over the eastern flank. However, once that's achieved, build the capacity for offensive operations in concert with a western and/or northern advance. That's where something like the KF-21 would be key. This isn't to say any such outcome would happen, but India should be factoring it in as a real possibility in case it fights any one side.

 

[LeonBlack08]

Of course BD skies is “big enough” for 80-100 fighter aircraft as it has a landmass that of England and Wales and there is also the Bay of Bengal.

To add to your point - we often forget to consider the airspace over the maritime region of Bangladesh. In the event of conflict, we will have to engage in this region to keep the shipping lanes open.

There are much smaller countries (by size) than Bangladesh who maintains massive air forces - like The Zionist Colony and Taiwan. So airspace size should never be used as an excuse to not build up an air force.

 

[iblini]

So I just checked up on BAF and it's shocking to know they have not procured a single jet fighter since year 2000, a country with more than 100 million people and 400 billion GDP only operates a few mig-29...that is just wrong.

 

[Alter_Ego]

a country with more than 100 million people

Actually closer to 180 million people and yes its unbelievable how incompetent Bangladesh Air Force have been. That being said, the previous government played a big role by being stooges for a certain neighbor.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Yak-130s would be tough due to Russia's wartime situation and the general environment of sanctions. Unlike Pakistan, I think Bangladesh is in a good place in terms of foreign and economic relations, especially with countries like South Korea. Best they keep that going and exact as many concessions, like manufacturing-related FDI and, potentially, tech-transfers for semiconductors and other critical industries. So, IMO, it'd be better for BD to avoid Russia, avoid China, and, frankly, avoid Pakistan (from a defense industry PoV).

As @Oscar noted above, any fixed-wing fighter acquisition would be for neutralizing Myanmar. IMO, that should be a major priority for BD as they cannot afford to have two exposed flanks. Moreover, BD should start gradually flexing and expanding its writ into Arakan so as to settle the Rohingya issue once and for all.

In terms of India, they'll need to coordinate with Pakistan and procure from Turkiye. On the coordination front, there needs to be a plan in place to divide India's resources into a 3-way split: West (Pakistan), North (China), and East (BD).

Provided the West and North are active fronts, I don't think BD would have face the full brunt of India's might. Of course, this is contingent on Pakistan really stepping up as a credible land, air, and naval threat (the growth in the PN submarine fleet will be key).

For its part, however, I agree with you in that BD should be investing in mobile artillery as well as guided rocket and LACM/ASCM capabilities. They can acquire all of that off-the-shelf from Turkiye and, potentially, license manufacture the rockets. Furthermore, multi-layered and extensive IADS via PDMS+CIWS, MR-SAM, and LR-SAM (SIPER?) is key.

They have a good naval opportunity too... They ought to speak to ROK or Turkiye for new conventional submarines. In fact, that should be their primary naval focus, i.e., build a disproportionately large sub-surface fleet of ~1,500-ton SSKs, <500-ton SWATS, and a lot of UUV/AUVs. Station mobile ASCM launchers and SAMs by the coasts.

Basically, the idea should be to build enough to deny India access and control over the eastern flank. However, once that's achieved, build the capacity for offensive operations in concert with a western and/or northern advance. That's where something like the KF-21 would be key. This isn't to say any such outcome would happen, but India should be factoring it in as a real possibility in case it fights any one side.

We had 3-4 pilot deaths due to YAk-130… first and last crash completely due to malfunctioning aircraft and the second one was pilot error in night flight. No point in buying a jet that malfunctions due to humidity in avionics equipment and or the last malfunction which was a loss of flight controls. We need reliable jets with good range and payload to protect our airspace over our territorial land and waters.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Provided the West and North are active fronts, I don't think BD would have face the full brunt of India's might. Of course, this is contingent on Pakistan really stepping up as a credible land, air, and naval threat (the growth in the PN submarine fleet will be key).

India only has one army command directed at Bangladesh… that’s about 250-300k troops, about 300 tanks, similar level of artillery. India will never be stupid enough to attack bd from the northern and eastern front diverting their divisions from Chinese border or Pakistan/ Kashmir border.

This vs 250k combined armed forces strength of bd with another 250k BGB which is classified as paramilitary but gets army training. Plus a million plus ANSAR which is the actual paramilitary branch… similar levels of tanks, more anti tank concentration and good numbers of artillery too

The only way India has any chance against bd is airstrikes and naval blockade and even then blockade won’t go unchallenged like 1971

On land Bangladesh cannot be invaded. 1971 was possible because home ground allied with India and even after entering during the end days of conflict with much of the country liberated they still somehow managed to lose 1500 troops in a week