Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

[Side note]: the new cloud flare system is so bad. I've lost entire comments to it. I had to rewrite this 3 times.

@Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ



You really shouldn't have, because now you're about to get an actual history lesson.




First off, Pakistan didn't exist when the king of Afghanistan ad the British CAME TO A MUTUALLY AGREED UPON BORDER LINE which was respected until the birth of Pakistan.

Pakistan literally held a plebiscite in the regions to see if they wanted to remain independent, or join Pakistan. The answer was they joined Pakistan.

Not to mention that in 1960, the local Pashtun tribes were the first to fight against an attempted Afghan invasion (this was a second attempt)

When the question of Pakistan was brought to the UNGA, Afghanistan was the sole single entity to vote against Pakistan.

The Afghans insisted on a fake, non-historical nation called Pashtunistan (which has never existed in any point in history), which they insisted only be made on Pakistani territory. When Pakistan said why only Pakistan, why not Afghanistan as well, the Afghans responded by attacking Pakistan militarily (and being repulsed).

Afghanistan DID have an upper hand in the beginning. They had a fully equipped military, while the Pakistan army was still forming, and had almost all its field guns confiscated by the British and handed over to India. Afghanistan, during Pakistan's birth, attacked then as well, and were repulsed by local tribes.

AFGHANISTAN HAS LAUNCHED MULTIPLE MILITARY INVASIONS AGAINST PAKISTAN, COMPLETELY UNPROVOKED, AND LOST EVERYTIME BECAUSE THE LOCAL TRIBES DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT AFGHANISTAN.

FYI, the main reason why the ISI even exists is because of Afghanistan's constant aggression. Even India isn't as aggressive as Afghanistan is towards Pakistan.



Taliban can't even hold themselves together. Fractures are already appearing.

Afghanistan has NEVER truly been a united country, under 1 flag.

Its wishful thinking on your part.



Pakistan need not have negotiated with Afghanistan, as the border was already settled due to international law, and border treaties between Afghanistan and the British (which according to IL) Pakistan inherited. By the way, it was the Afghan's idea to have a border in the first place.



Pakistanis are proud of their heritage.

You are again saying a whole bunch of nothing.

A nation that isnt cohesive in any way isnt a united nation.

Entire regions in Afghanistan ignore the central authority of Kabul and have for generations. They act as independent nation states within Afghanistan.

A civilization-country cannot function in such a manner.



They absolutely do, and no amount of you denying it will change this.



This is a cope comment. The ANA was a local institution, it was manned by locals, and while it's main funding was foreign, a lot of it was also funded by whatever taxes Kabul could collect.

It is NOT a different subject, you're only saying this because you have no answer to this, and it doesn't suit your narrative.



What a joke.



They got 1 to 2 guys, who are mainly kept on the sidelines. 90% of the military and government positions are manned by Pashtun. The 1 Hazara guy they had, rebelled because they were fucking his people over, and then killed him for trying to fight for his people's rights.



Everything I've said is factually based, and can easily be googled.



What you wrote is nothing more than your personal feelings and wishes.

Do it again. I can't make out anything. Just post what you said

 

[That_Guy]

Do it again. I can't make out anything. Just post what you said

I fixed it. Cloud-flare fucked up the comment.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

[Side note]: the new cloud flare system is so bad. I've lost entire comments to it. I had to rewrite this 3 times.

@Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ



You really shouldn't have, because now you're about to get an actual history lesson.

Great!

First off, Pakistan didn't exist when the king of Afghanistan ad the British CAME TO A MUTUALLY AGREED UPON BORDER LINE which was respected until the birth of Pakistan.

Exactly as I said above. Pakistan was a nonentity. For Afghans the incumbent were Brits and new entity with no agency.

Pakistan literally held a plebiscite in the regions to see if they wanted to remain independent, or join Pakistan. The answer was they joined Pakistan.

It was to Pakistan's favor as both the Afghans and Brits were culling and insurrection by Safi, Mangal and Zadrans. People in the border regions were not going to accept the Afghan crown, nor British rule. The Waziri and Afridis had both fought and kept a simmering insurgency alive and faced the brunt of British expeditions in the region. Afghan crown was on British life support.
That is what they should have done.

Not to mention that in 1960, the local Pashtun tribes were the first to fight against an attempted Afghan invasion (this was a second attempt)

Noted above in its right context.

When the question of Pakistan was brought to the UNGA, Afghanistan was the sole single entity to vote against Pakistan.

The Afghans insisted on a fake, non-historical nation called Pashtunistan (which has never existed in any point in history), which they insisted only be made on Pakistani territory. When Pakistan said why only Pakistan, why not Afghanistan as well, the Afghans responded by attacking Pakistan militarily (and being repulsed).

Afghanistan DID have an upper hand in the beginning. They had a fully equipped military, while the Pakistan army was still forming, and had almost all its field guns confiscated by the British and handed over to India. Afghanistan, during Pakistan's birth, attacked then as well, and were repulsed by local tribes.

AFGHANISTAN HAS LAUNCHED MULTIPLE MILITARY INVASIONS AGAINST PAKISTAN, COMPLETELY UNPROVOKED, AND LOST EVERYTIME BECAUSE THE LOCAL TRIBES DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT AFGHANISTAN.

FYI, the main reason why the ISI even exists is because of Afghanistan's constant aggression. Even India isn't as aggressive as Afghanistan is towards Pakistan.

Your assertion that Afghanistan ever had an upper hand on Pakistan is incorrect. I had noted in my previous post that to victor belongs all spoils.
Afganistan claiming on someone else's shoulder(Soviet expansion) were blunted by Pakistan joining anti Soviet crowd.
Afghans claiming something and coming on their own feet... needs just one answer. You want some come get some!

US aid in propping up Pakistani intelligence services was also am anti communist bulwark as the rest of the infra.

And another thing, Afghanistan tried to invade British India multiple times, the second invasion attempt is what led to Afghanistan suggesting a border. So no, it was Afghanistan that was the belligerent.

Britain was the colonizer. British attempts of direct Afghan control were thwarted by Afghans themselves and later because of Russian expansion it was more conducive to have a rump state between Britain and Russia.

Taliban can't even hold themselves together. Fractures are already appearing.

Afghanistan has NEVER truly been a united country, under 1 flag.

Its wishful thinking on your part.



Pakistan need not have negotiated with Afghanistan, as the border was already settled due to international law, and border treaties between Afghanistan and the British (which according to IL) Pakistan inherited. By the way, it was the Afghan's idea to have a border in the first place.

As one party to that claims continuity them may say as they please... the political reality... or more aptly the facts on ground changed.

Pakistanis are proud of their heritage.

You are again saying a whole bunch of nothing.

A nation that isnt cohesive in any way isnt a united nation.

Entire regions in Afghanistan ignore the central authority of Kabul and have for generations. They act as independent nation states within Afghanistan.

A civilization-state cannot function in such a manner.

That is your definition and I have no reason to suggest you change your opinion. Carry on.

They absolutely do, and no amount of you denying it will change this.



This is a cope comment. The ANA was a local institution, it was manned by locals, and while it's main funding was foreign, a lot of it was also funded by whatever taxes Kabul could collect.

It is NOT a different subject, you're only saying this because you have no answer to this, and it doesn't suit your narrative.

ANA melted away... native or not amounts to nothing at this point.
Carry on as that political reality also changed

What a joke.

They have a complete tajik faction and Tajiks man border with Tajikistan.

They got 1 to 2 guys, who are mainly kept on the sidelines. 90% of the military and government positions are manned by Pashtun. The 1 Hazara guy they had, rebelled because they were fucking his people over, and then killed him for trying to fight for his people's rights.



Everything I've said is factually based, and can easily be googled.



What you wrote is nothing more than your personal feelings and wishes.

Come on i got feelings too...

 

[That_Guy]

Great!


Exactly as I said above. Pakistan was a nonentity. For Afghans the incumbent were Brits and new entity with no agency.

You're ignoring international law.

It doesn't matter what the afghans want, or believe. They signed a treaty, and Pakistan legally and rightfully inherited it from the British.

That's how international law work.

It was to Pakistan's favor as both the Afghans and Brits were culling and insurrection by Safi, Mangal and Zadrans. People in the border regions were not going to accept the Afghan crown, nor British rule. The Waziri and Afridis had both fought and kept a simmering insurgency alive and faced the brunt of British expeditions in the region. Afghan crown was on British life support.
That is what they should have done.

in other words, i literally doesn't matter, because Pakistan, even according to this, was in the right.

Noted above in its right context.


Your assertion that Afghanistan ever had an upper hand on Pakistan is incorrect. I had noted in my previous post that to victor belongs all spoils.

Upper hand isn't the same as victory. The Afghans hand the upper hand, they just overestimated themselves. The initial invasion was almost exclusively fought by tribal people against Afghan regulars., because the PA was so unprepared.

Afganistan claiming on someone else's shoulder(Soviet expansion) were blunted by Pakistan joining anti Soviet crowd.
Afghans claiming something and coming on their own feet... needs just one answer. You want some come get some!

This is a nothing statement, which you seem to love making.

US aid in propping up Pakistani intelligence services was also am anti communist bulwark as the rest of the infra.

US aid was in the form of mainly weapons, and the communists were foreigners.

I don't understand your point here.

Britain was the colonizer. British attempts direct Afghan control were thwarted by Afghans themselves and later because of Russian expansion it was more conducive to have a rump state between Britain and Russia.

The Afghans themselves were colonizers as well. And it was the Afghans that started the second war, because their king decided that having a foreign enemy was a good way to unite Afghanistan.

So the Afghans invaded British-India, not the other way around.

As one party to that claims continuity them may say as they please... the political reality... or more aptly the facts on ground changed.

Again, a nothing statement.

That is your definition and I have no reason to suggest you change your opinion. Carry on.

It is factually, not my personal opinion.

ANA melted away... native or not amounts to nothing at this point.
Carry on as that political reality also changed

Again, this is a nothing statement. You keep refusing to address my points in a proper manner.

They have a complete tajik faction and Tajiks man border with Tajikistan.

No, they do not. This is absolutely not true.

Come on i got feelings too...

So does my cat, but when it does something wrong, I address the issue.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

You're ignoring international law.

It doesn't matter what the afghans want, or believe. They signed a treaty, and Pakistan legally and rightfully inherited it from the British.

There is case for it but not here... it is not topic that requires any debate as both original parties seized to exist in their former capacity.

That's how international law work.

in other words, i literally doesn't matter, because Pakistan, even according to this, was in the right.

Upper hand isn't the same as victory. The Afghans hand the upper hand, they just overestimated themselves. The initial invasion was almost exclusively fought by tribal people against Afghan regulars., because the PA was so unprepared.

This is a nothing statement, which you seem to love making.

US aid was in the form of mainly weapons, and the communists were foreigners.

I don't understand your point here.

You have propensity to undercut, downplay or pivot from Pakistan's own actions.
Afganistan was a rump state between Britain and Russia. It was part of the great game. After the Russian empire was toppled and subsequent Soviet victory in second world War the US cultivated former British colonies against communist threat. Afghan royalty placated and both and subsequently lost to the Soviets, different topics different time... however Pakistan actively used that anti communist agency to fight the good war against the godless Soviets.
In this whole picture their was never an independent Afghan counterpart. I would argue similar case for Pakistan because of its institutional continuity. In essence the institutions were empowered to make decisions as they pleased as part of their charters and genesis.

The Afghans themselves were colonizers as well. And it was the Afghans that started the second war, because their king decided that having a foreign enemy was a good way to unite Afghanistan.

So the Afghans invaded British-India, not the other way around.

Do you have a horse in this fight between two belligerents?
Both being colonizers on the native.
Are natives free now?
They duked it out... the rest is history and we know it.

Again, a nothing statement.

It is factually, not my personal opinion.

Again, this is a nothing statement. You keep refusing to address my points in a proper manner.

No, they do not. This is absolutely not true.

So does my cat, but when it does something wrong, I address the issue.

You do not have to understand what I said, am saying. Not my job. It will translate to the right person and that maybe more fruitful then me doubling down or stretching it out any more.

Your understanding of Afghanistan and Pakistan way too nascent for me to reply any further.

 

[That_Guy]

There is case for it but not here... it is not topic that requires any debate as both original parties seized to exist in their former capacity.

This is literally the stupidest argument I've read all day.

I've tried being patient with you, but not anymore.

IT IS LITERALLY INTERNATIONAL LAW, IT ABSOLUTELY APPLIES.

READ THE LAWS ON HOW TREATIES ARE GOVERNED AND PASSED DOWN!

UNTC

This is the United Nations Treaty Collection homepage. Here you will find related information and links.

treaties.un.org

It's like I'm arguing with a child that doesn't understand basic logic.

The rest of your comment isn't even worth talking about, when you don't even know how treaties and successor states even work!

Next time you reply, actually know what the **** you're talking about, because you're wasting mine and everyone else's time by being confidently wrong about every single fucking thing you're written, because you're too stubborn to admit you're stating your own feelings as fact, and that everything I've written can easily be googled to prove me right!

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

This is literally the stupidest argument I've read all day.

I've tried being patient with you, but not anymore.

IT IS LITERALLY INTERNATIONAL LAW, IT ABSOLUTELY APPLIES.

READ THE LAWS ON HOW TREATIES ARE GOVERNED AND PASSED DOWN!

UNTC

This is the United Nations Treaty Collection homepage. Here you will find related information and links.

treaties.un.org

It's like I'm arguing with a child that doesn't understand basic logic.

The rest of your comment isn't even worth talking about, when you don't even know how treaties and successor states even work!

Next time you reply, actually know what the **** you're talking about, because you're wasting mine and everyone else's time by being confidently wrong about every single fucking thing you're written, because you're too stubborn to admit you're stating your own feelings as fact, and that everything I've written can easily be googled to prove me right!

Suite yourself that guy... as they say don't be that guy.

On top of being clueless you're profane as well. Get lost and don't you quote me... I knew after first quoting you that it was going south... the ONLY people that I have seen that so conveniently hide behind Afghan ruse are immigrants from India as a sympathetic cause and I would be surprised if your not one of them...

Anyhow, get lost!

 

[That_Guy]

Suite yourself that guy... as they say don't be that guy.

On top of being clueless you're profane as well. Get lost and don't you quote me... I knew after first quoting you that it was going south... the ONLY people that I have seen that so conveniently hide behind Afghan ruse are immigrants from India as a sympathetic cause and I would be surprised if your not one of them...

Anyhow, get lost!

I'm clueless?

You said a bunch of nothing, and then pretended that your feelings are facts.

Get over yourself, you narcissist.

Absolutely pathetic.

You didn't address a single point i made in any real way.

You wanna reply to me next time, actually have an argument.

How about YOU get lost? Considering you've done nothing but troll. Also, YOU replied to ME first, you narcissistic troll.

You can't beat my arguments, so you resort to calling me an Indian. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

I'm clueless?

You said a bunch of nothing, and then pretended that your feelings are facts.

Get over yourself, you narcissist.

Absolutely pathetic.

You didn't address a single point i made in any real way.

You wanna rely to me next time, actually have an argument.

How about YOU get lost? Considering you've done nothing but troll. Also, YOU replied to ME first, you narcissistic troll.

You can't beat my arguments, so you resort to calling me an Indian. Absolutely pathetic.

It's all right that guy. You know who you are... don't worry what I say in an anonymous forum.
Points, trash!
Narcissist? You think it's about you , don't you?

I don't have anything to retract from what I said above, fact that you were the conduit, made it only more fun.

It made people with your kind of opinion, google supported... perhaps more illuminated.
But what do I care?

 

[not_ahk]

It's all right that guy. You know who you are... don't worry what I say in an anonymous forum.
Points, trash!
Narcissist? You think it's about you , don't you?

I don't have anything to retract from what I said above, fact that you were the conduit, made it only more fun.

It made people with your kind of opinion, google supported... perhaps more illuminated.
But what do I care?

No horse in this debate, but reality won't change no matter how much you try to surround yourself with a haughty aura.

Keep disputing the Durand Line however you want to. It won't shift an inch in reality, atleast in the current circumstances.

Bad mouth Pakistan to your hearts content. It is here and looks like will remain here for the forseeble future.

Muslims of a region are living relatively peacefully, and have been progressing as a society. Why do you want to pull them down? Do you really think a "Pushtoonistan" would have given the Pushtoons of this region the social and economic status, or is capable of anytime in the future?

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

No horse in this debate, but reality won't change no matter how much you try to surround yourself with a haughty aura.

Keep disputing the Durand Line however you want to. It won't shift an inch in reality, atleast in the current circumstances.

Bad mouth Pakistan to your hearts content. It is here and looks like will remain here for the forseeble future.

Muslims of a region are living relatively peacefully, and have been progressing as a society. Why do you want to pull them down? Do you really think a "Pushtoonistan" would have given the Pushtoons of this region the social and economic status, or is capable of anytime in the future?

Huh. Ain't no such thing my guy...
No one is asking for a Pushtoonistan. There is/was no such thing... don't let that guy tag you along.
The only reason I said what I did is to let all think... don't let the tide sweep you along.
For all too often people have been able to create fissures among brothers with tall tales, heroism or just plain old hubris.
I want Pakistan to be stronger not weeker. Pick its fights, drive it's cause and be the force for good that it is and should have been... be able to tell between a friend or foe.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

View attachment 92443

Everytime you are posting by directing india is behind of Taliban and TTP.

It forced me to believe that Pakistan successfully able to erased the history from 1970s to USA leaving from Afghanistan when Pakistan was used to support such organisations in Afghanistan.

Now after erasing the history - it's easy to blame everything on india

 

[Fatman17]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/01/world/asia/pakistan-afghanistan-taliban.html?smid=url-share

 

[not_ahk]

Huh. Ain't no such thing my guy...
No one is asking for a Pushtoonistan. There is/was no such thing... don't let that guy tag you along.
The only reason I said what I did is to let all think... don't let the tide sweep you along.
For all too often people have been able to create fissures among brothers with tall tales, heroism or just plain old hubris.
I want Pakistan to be stronger not weeker. Pick its fights, drive it's cause and be the force for good that it is and should have been... be able to tell between a friend or foe.

Never been a part of the black and white crowd. World is grey - Pakistan has made mistakes, Afghanistan has made mistakes. We need to find a way to work together and somehow let the past become history.

But how?

 

[studsmart]

Is wahkhan news posted many times have any credibility