PTI freedom movement against Judiciary and Establishment: News, Discussion & Updates

[Distant_Observer]

Why do you have to pick one? They are all corrupt and highly incompetent. I’m not a fan of IK but his rule started to make Pakistan a nation state and unified a nation out of a growing middle class. If you fools have any idea on how modern nation states are built, but you’re too busy stuck in the 1800s with on one feudal lord making all the decisions and blocking organic growth.

Shame on you

I have seen enough, I don't trust anyone from any political party. They sway from corruption to extremism and are unproductive. I think we need to wait a bit longer until better alternatives arrive.

IK lost my interest when he resettled TTP fighters in Pakistan. I also didn't appreciate his smugness during the NATO withdrawl, like the free from slavery comments. Atleast wait until you are off the IMF drip. Also poor judgement in not cancelling the Russia trip. He should be human rights minister or social well being minister. A leader of a country he is not.

 

[PakAl]

You are right.

The military establishment will be committing a cardinal sin if they want to side step the Taliban and work on getting all ex NA under one umbrella and give legitimacy to these folks at the expense of the Afghan Taliban.

I understand all the anger and shenanigans, inviting Malala as a poster girl while they make these policy changes. But this policy change will come back to haunt Pakistan for decades to come.

What will be achieved by this? Will the TTP attacks stop? Will the hate towards Pakistan stop? Will they stop exporting extremism into Pakistan?

Seriously mate. Wake up and smell the coffee.

They may want to unite Northern Alliance with Hizbi Islami, Haqqani network and form a new unity government minus the Kandhar branch of Taliban which is allegedly opposing any action against TTP. Taliban has different groups inside it, some are not even part of Taliban movement but are just allies.

This was actually the original agreement that the Taliban government will be interim setup, and then inclusive government will be formed. Pakistan should have close contacts with the Taliban aswell as the opposition NRF.

 

[PakAl]

No - it’s more a case of cunning in playing what he knows. This is an entire OTS cabal that has made it to the top - they know moves within the political spectrum based on their understanding of what works and doesn’t work. They are rightly so completely inept when it comes to foreign policy and strategic affairs which is what Ayesha Siddiqua is alluding to.

Its a simple case of experience - the current leader is experienced in traditional political manipulation via his time in the agency with very little to show for in external relations or intelligence gathering beyond borders - leave aside any aspect of analysis.

Doesn't the COAS or DG Isi have a team whom they jointly make decisions with, it cannot be professional to allow one General or DGISI to make major decisions. According to Mushraff and Nadeem Anjum, the army head makes decisions with his corp commanders or advisors. A professional army would do this or highly professional soldier. So its not one man decisions but a policy.

 

[OakTree23]

I have seen enough, I don't trust anyone from any political party. They sway from corruption to extremism and are unproductive. I think we need to wait a bit longer until better alternatives arrive.

IK lost my interest when he resettled TTP fighters in Pakistan. I also didn't appreciate his smugness during the NATO withdrawl, like the free from slavery comments. Atleast wait until you are off the IMF drip. Also poor judgement in not cancelling the Russia trip. He should be human rights minister or social well being minister. A leader of a country he is not.

He was a grade A idiot loud mouth. In a crazy way, I kinda understand why the Brass didn’t think he was the right fit. We Pakistanis have seen a lot of sadness in our history predating Pakistan. We’re cynical by nature. Pakistanis don’t brag and make a fool out of themselves like the Iranians and the Indians do. We do what we need to to survive. IK loud mouth didn’t understand that the nation isn’t quite strong enough to make independent decisions. His erratic behavior put the country in an uncomfortable spotlight. I’m not a fanboy of the army and needs oversight and civilian control, but the fact of the matter is, the military is holding the country together. The system, although imperfect, is the best we can hope for. On the east we have a growing and hungry power that’s hellbent on neutralizing Pakistan in order for them to become a truly powerful nation. In the West, we have loud mouth Persians and their offsprings and they don’t think highly of us. Unity is needed at the moment and the system gradually cleansed from bottom up.

 

[ACE OF HEARTS]

There should an Amendment in the constitution and the Army / Tri Services Act, which would state:

1. No officer, starting from the rank of a Major / Lt Commander / Squadron leader , upto the highest rank of a Lt. General / Vice Admiral / Air Marshal, shall be considered for the post of the tri services chief, and must sign an affidavit and forfeit his right to be considered to do so, and prohibited by the constitution and the Army / Tri Services Act, if he is part of the Intelligence agencies, in any part of his career, after gaining experience upto the rank of the captain / lieutenant / flight lieutenant.

The advantage the person has after gaining experience in the Intelligence agencies, who would know the loop holes in the system and would use it for his own advantage, by establishing and using closer personal ties with the executive and legislative branch of the constitution, and become the preferred choice of becoming one of the chief of the Tri Services, an advantage that none other majority of the officers have because they have not worked in the intelligent agency and are at a great disadvantage, even if they are more competent, because they are not soo close, in a working relationship or professionally, as their colleagues are, who are working in the Intelligence agencies, to PM / Ministers / other elected civilians / decision makers etc.

2. Have commanded a Corps / corps Commander if from the Army, North / Cemtral / South air commands in case of air force or Commander Pakistan Fleet (COMPAK) / Commander Coast (COMCOAST) , in the case of navy.

Being a teacher / principle of a college, a spy or heading the media center doesn't make you eligible for the position of the Tri Services Chief.

 

[Cash gk]

Doesn't the COAS or DG Isi have a team whom they jointly make decisions with, it cannot be professional to allow one General or DGISI to make major decisions. According to Mushraff and Nadeem Anjum, the army head makes decisions with his corp commanders or advisors. A professional army would do this or highly professional soldier. So its not one man decisions but a policy.

This army chif is next level duffer.... Accept the reality

 

[Cash gk]

I have seen enough, I don't trust anyone from any political party. They sway from corruption to extremism and are unproductive. I think we need to wait a bit longer until better alternatives arrive.

IK lost my interest when he resettled TTP fighters in Pakistan. I also didn't appreciate his smugness during the NATO withdrawl, like the free from slavery comments. Atleast wait until you are off the IMF drip. Also poor judgement in not cancelling the Russia trip. He should be human rights minister or social well being minister. A leader of a country he is not.

Recently said by Imran Khan that it was bajwa and shabaz government did that. It started in last months of Khan government..

 

[EugeneP]

I don't have much confidence in the politicans and majority of the issues are because of their incompetence.

The army can't afford to wait for the squabbling politicans to reach a consensus. If it wasn't for the army Pakistan would have been as dysfunctional as a south american country.

We are heading into uncertain times. They should redirect the entire budget to the army so they can make ICBM, nuclear submarines and launch their own sattelites.

Too many people badmouth the military. But they are the only ones with any achievement. They have built a formidable military with excellent technology and advanced weapons system. The civilian government has nothing to show for in 80 years. Can't produce electricity, run railroad or airline. Education and healthcare are almost non-existent (only two countries to revive polio after it was eliminated from the world - Afghanistan and Pakistan).

 

[Cash gk]

Only a fool lights a fire in his own house and expects his neighbor to stay cold.”
War is not a game where you can cheer from the sidelines and expect victory without consequences. Those glorifying war forget that “when elephants fight, it’s the grass that suffers.” Have we forgotten the horrors Pakistan faced when NATO and America occupied Afghanistan? India used that opportunity to destabilize our country, leading to daily suicide bombings and chaos. Pakistan was on the brink of collapse, losing over 80,000 innocent lives.
Under Imran Khan’s government, Pakistan finally saw a period of relative peace. He understood the dynamics of Afghanistan, its tribal system, and its people. He worked to improve relationships with Afghanistan, ensuring Pakistan’s security and stability. His policies provided breathing space for the country after decades of suffering. Contrast this with the present situation: an incompetent army chief meeting British and American ambassadors daily , laying the groundwork for destruction.
Cheering for war today is like “fools rushing in where angels fear to tread.” Those applauding this madness fail to see that this is not just self-destruction but an open invitation for India to exploit the chaos. Pakistan is being dragged into a fire it might not recover from, thanks to reckless decisions by people who should be protecting the nation.
“An idiot with a matchstick can destroy what the wise took years to build.” Instead of stoking war, we should learn from the peace we enjoyed under Imran Khan’s leadership. He knew how to handle complex situations without putting the nation at risk. This army chief, however, seems determined to burn everything down, jeopardizing Pakistan’s stability and future.
It’s time to stop following these warmongers blindly and remember: “You can’t clap with one hand, but you can start a war with one fool.” If we don’t push for peace, Pakistan will pay the price, and this time, India will reap all the benefits of our destruction.

 

[Cash gk]

This picture speaks volumes about the reality of Pakistan’s power dynamics. The elected Chief Minister, who represents the will of the people, is sidelined, while a Grade-20 officer occupies the center seat, symbolizing greater authority and importance.

It highlights how the military establishment often undermines civilian leadership, eroding democracy and constitutional principles. Such images reflect a system where elected representatives are reduced to mere spectators while unelected officials dominate decision-making. This imbalance must be addressed for true democracy to flourish.
This is how decisions are being made for future generations. This idiot might stay in power for 2 to 3 years, but the consequences Pakistan will face could last for the next 30 to 40 years.

 

[Cash gk]

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[Oscar]

Doesn't the COAS or DG Isi have a team whom they jointly make decisions with, it cannot be professional to allow one General or DGISI to make major decisions. According to Mushraff and Nadeem Anjum, the army head makes decisions with his corp commanders or advisors. A professional army would do this or highly professional soldier. So its not one man decisions but a policy.

The structure is of a professional army - the practice is not.

There are loose fiefdoms practiced by certain players inspired by machiavelli who go beyond their duties - fmr CC Lahore was not one of them and was fired for this reason.

Even these fiefdoms with teams also have their rot with sycophants and “yes” men. So the result is that let’s say the president of Pakistan agrees to a foreign power for a task, many CCs object to it and the COAS disagrees but accepts it - one CC or a group can take actions both passive(and even kinetic) in nature to sabotage the directive and send a message to both COAS, president and foreign power.

I wont say more on when this has happened (and how many times)

 

[Tameem]

How shameful, Now all those who ran away cowardly themselves for greener pasture abroad now taunts resident Pakistanis of looking after only to their daily routine and not up in arms against the state...it's actually disgusting.

Resident Pakistanis are indifferent to fate of Pakistan, but the ones who ran away taking oath to defends foreign lands are truly faithfull to Pak cause

 

[Oscar]

He was a grade A idiot loud mouth. In a crazy way, I kinda understand why the Brass didn’t think he was the right fit. We Pakistanis have seen a lot of sadness in our history predating Pakistan. We’re cynical by nature. Pakistanis don’t brag and make a fool out of themselves like the Iranians and the Indians do. We do what we need to to survive. IK loud mouth didn’t understand that the nation isn’t quite strong enough to make independent decisions. His erratic behavior put the country in an uncomfortable spotlight. I’m not a fanboy of the army and needs oversight and civilian control, but the fact of the matter is, the military is holding the country together. The system, although imperfect, is the best we can hope for. On the east we have a growing and hungry power that’s hellbent on neutralizing Pakistan in order for them to become a truly powerful nation. In the West, we have loud mouth Persians and their offsprings and they don’t think highly of us. Unity is needed at the moment and the system gradually cleansed from bottom up.

He was a failed experiment of a failed system that simply cannot acknowledge that they needed to empower and not control the educated middle class - but since the brass cannot tolerate the inevitable smiles that educated middle class gives them that makes them feel uncomfortable - they will never let go of their control but vax eloquently on democratic systems and rule of law while not really wanting to change anything.

Its a case of “look how smart I am - you need me” that drives this system at every possible level. It stems from the British Raj never having left - with a viceroy and the “west” India company constantly looking for various queens and kings to pledge loyalty to.

 

[PakAl]

I’m not a fan of IK but his rule started to make Pakistan a nation state and unified a nation out of a growing middle class.

This is actually good point, before 2011 Darna, young Pakistanis were frustrated with the political leadership, even the military leadership was frustrated, we had no effective leadership, no emerging young leadership. This is where PTI came, a pro Pakistan party, a party which gives platform to the youth and educated class, Pti worked hard to unite all Pakistanis, even the 10m overseas were happy except the older generation. Unfortunately everything went to the dustbin after IK removal, we are set back decade. Imran Khan is not so innocent aswel, the way he thought he will bring the generals on their knees, begging for mercy and bring back IK to power.