The Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict

[hyperman]

After the war,phone discussions and other info started coming out. I really should have saved way more back then,I only took a few screenshots from the posts I used to see back then,but some went like this:

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Its all BS scapegoating, they were trying to find a way to blame someone else, pass the blame around. They fought as hard as they could. It was not possible for Armenia to win. They were outmanned and out gunned and frankly didn't have a good strategy or even a will to fight, they had massive amount of desertions.

 

[Foinikas]

Bro do you even know anything about Armenian politics. Serzh is Kocharyan's hand picked successor, he was a thief as well. its what sparked the 2018 revolution.

2018 Armenian Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I know,there was crazy corruption. My friend kept telling me there's still a lot of Soviet mentality in Armenia.

 

[Foinikas]

Its all BS scapegoating, they were trying to find a way to blame someone else. They fought as hard as they court. It was not possible for Armenia to win. They were outmanned and out gunned and frankly didn't have a good strategy or even a will to fight, they had massive amount of desertions.

Armenians are great fighters,but they were left with a '90s army and old doctrines. They had great positions,great snipers,good ATGM users and very good defences. For a 2000s war. But it was 2020. UAVs and new tactics used by the Azeris were a big suprise to them. UAVs spotting for artillery,loitering munitions hitting Armenian positions while they couldn't hit them back,sometimes couldn't detect them.

Pashinyan wasn't a scapegoat,he was a guy who filled their heads with promises and then brought them out of Russian protection and fell for an Azeri trap. Then he was way too eager to sign any agreement,rush to be friendly with Turkey and suppress any protests.

I can't write more,I'm too tired. But there's one thing you constantly miss: you think that a country with a smaller army and chances of victory shouldn't fight. That's wrong. There's nations that prefer to defend their sacred even if there's little possibility to victory.

 

[hyperman]

you think that a country with a smaller army and chances of victory shouldn't fight. That's wrong. There's nations that prefer to defend their sacred even if there's little possibility to victory.

Where did I say that? lol, I argue with you in supporting Palestine and even Hezbollah(in Lebanon not Syria) and the Syrian Opposition, what makes you think that.

Armenia did fk up thought, but we will disagree on what they fked up on. They fked up in not settling this in the 90s and 2000s, LTP understood it, and tried settling it diplomatically, but was overthrown by Kocharyan. That first war was a fluke, but they didn't comprehend it as that. And they didn't realize the change in dynamics, even in 2019, when several observers(Serz included) saw what was happening.

Serz after 2016 went to Stepanakert to try to convince them to give back the other surrounding area in Red, the delusional nationalists thought that they didn't need to do that, and that it was over and “Artsakh is Armenia, and that’s it,” as Pashinyan put it. And then started acting cocky.

talking about "new wars for new lands" in the "Tonoyan doctrine.

Rationalizing the Tonoyan Doctrine: Armenia’s Active Deterrence Strategy - Jamestown

jamestown.org

and "Kura Arax Republic"

United Armenia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[drkrn86]

Neo ottoman empire would be welcomed by lot of people.

It's just an individual opinion. Saudi and Iran sees that a threat. So does EU/Russia. Forget USA or China.

 

[mulj]

It's just an individual opinion. Saudi and Iran sees that a threat. So does EU/Russia. Forget USA or China.

My opinion but sentiment is shared among many people, sure that is threat for those but that is geopolitical challenge if mentioned sentiment ever is shaped into concrete political action.

 

[Foinikas]

Where did I say that? lol, I argue with you in supporting Palestine and even Hezbollah(in Lebanon not Syria) and the Syrian Opposition, what makes you think that.

Well you usually imply we should give up modernizing our Armed Forces,we should accept Turkey's demands etc.

Armenia did fk up thought, but we will disagree on what they fked up on. They fked up in not settling this in the 90s and 2000s, LTP understood it, and tried settling it diplomatically, but was overthrown by Kocharyan. That first war was a fluke, but they didn't comprehend it as that. And they didn't realize the change in dynamics, even in 2019, when several observers(Serz included) saw what was happening.

They could have settled this back in the '90s,yeah but...I think there were two problems:

1.The Armenians were very high from their victories and probably thought they could revive the old Armenia. For them,Artsakh was like let's say Greece recovering Eastern Thrace or part of Ionia or like Serbs getting Kosovo back or something.
2.I doubt the Azeris would have settled for anything less than getting back the majority of the parts they lost.

Serz after 2016 went to Stepanakert to try to convince them to give back the other surrounding area in Red, the delusional nationalists thought that they didn't need to do that, and that it was over and “Artsakh is Armenia, and that’s it,” as Pashinyan put it. And then started acting cocky.

The whole problem was created by the Soviets just like in Moldova,Georgia,Ukraine etc.

They made Nagorno-Karabakh an Autonomous Oblast in Azerbaijan,basically having a majority Armenian population surrounded by Azeris,and gave Naxichevan to Azerbaijan,creating an exclave of Azeris trapped between Armenia,Turkey and Iran. Naxichevan was Armenian,but I don't remember if the Bolsheviks kicked the Armos from there and brought in Azeris or if that was earlier.

Either way,the Soviets started a problem again. Same thing with Moldova and Transnistria,giving South Ossetia and Akbhazia to Georgia,giving Crimea to Ukraine etc.

 

[hyperman]

Well you usually imply we should give up modernizing our Armed Forces,we should accept Turkey's demands etc.

Source please?

 

[hyperman]

2.I doubt the Azeris would have settled for anything less than getting back the majority of the parts they lost.

The deal was made, LTP agreed to it with heydar. What happened was that Dashnaks stromed the parliament.

Here you can read what happened here.

Levon Ter-Petrosyan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hyperman]

The whole problem was created by the Soviets just like in Moldova,Georgia,Ukraine etc.

They made Nagorno-Karabakh an Autonomous Oblast in Azerbaijan,basically having a majority Armenian population surrounded by Azeris,and gave Naxichevan to Azerbaijan,creating an exclave of Azeris trapped between Armenia,Turkey and Iran. Naxichevan was Armenian,but I don't remember if the Bolsheviks kicked the Armos from there and brought in Azeris or if that was earlier.

Either way,the Soviets started a problem again. Same thing with Moldova and Transnistria,giving South Ossetia and Akbhazia to Georgia,giving Crimea to Ukraine etc.

Its actually not True, Nakchivan was majority azeri, you can look at the demographic surveys of the area.

If anything, the Russians played favoritism towards their Christian compatriots at the expense of the Turks.

Here are some maps of the land from 1890



Here is the Same land in 1926



Azeris were forcibly removed and pushed into present day Azerbaijan from what is now Armenia, b/c the Russians/Soviets wanted to create a majority Armenian state. But the opposite wasn't done by making Armenians that were in Azerbaijan go to Armenia(instead, they were given a gerrymandered District inside Karabakh, than the Soviet created called Nagorno Karabakh..


you can read more here.

Deportation of Azerbaijanis from Armenia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here are the demographics for Karabakh overall as well and the specific districts that make up Nagorno Karabakh as well as the details for towns inside Nagorno Karabakh.

 

[Foinikas]

Source please?

 

[Foinikas]

Its actually not True, Nakchivan was majority azeri, you can look at the demographic surveys of the area.

If anything, the Russians played favoritism towards their Christian compatriots at the expense of the Turks.

Must have been way in the past then.

 

[Foinikas]

Azeris were forcibly removed and pushed into present day Azerbaijan from what is now Armenia, b/c the Russians/Soviets wanted to create a majority Armenian state. But the opposite wasn't done by making Armenians that were in Azerbaijan go to Armenia(instead, they were given a gerrymandered District inside Karabakh, than the Soviet created called Nagorno Karabakh..

It's the usual Soviet nonsense

 

[hyperman]

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Those are not serious quotes lol, those are all retorts to you, with regards to statements made about Palestine. To Show a double standard in your assessments where you classify statements towards Israel as bluster/fake and something for show while allegedly "under the surface" Israel and Turkey being buddy buddies(as is the narrative of the Iranian camp). So all I did was reference statements about Greece, which you don't classify as bluster/fake and "something for show", and how Greece and Turkey are secretly buddy buddies under the surface.

Thats what I'm showing here, the lack of consistency in interpreting, if you genuinely believe Erdgoan believes in what he says, they would not say that about the Israeli/Palestine statements. But if you think its bluster and not genuine you should apply it to the Greek equation and equally see it as bluster and fake and "drama", but in the Greek case, you and Dendias are ready to Shit your pants and consumed with Paranoia, "the turk is planning something" the turk is planning something". lol

 

[Foinikas]

Thats what I'm showing here, the lack of consistency in interpreting, if you genuinely believe Erdgoan believes in what he says, they would not say that about the Israeli/Palestine statements.

So wait a minute,you believe Erdogan is actually full of bullshit. That's what you're saying.
That's he's a liar and a demagogue. And he basically follows a two-faced policy.