Pakistan, the IVC, and a Land of continuous migration and mixing

[FuturePAF]

Despite efforts to claim their civilization is fully indigenous; the aryan invasion/migration theory can’t be debunked, it is vital for Pakistan to portray the aryan’s were just another wave of migration to the rich tapestry of modern Pakistan’s history.

Instead of downplaying it, leaning into “E pluribus unum” is a good way to rebrand our history and our civilization.

Therefore, Pakistanis, the descendants of most of the IVC, and all subsequent peoples is a unique place, not unlike America.

Spending just a little on decent quality museums and archeological will go a long way to rebranding the national image, not unlike what Egypt has done it.

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[Vikramaditya1]

Pakistan sure was the weakest link of Indian subcontinent though given it's geography. No kingdoms managed to survive longer than a few centuries before another group of invaders arrived.
Central Asian migration is true given there exist a lack of historical data that talks about any war it's probably that they assimilated with local traditions and formed the early vedic traditions.

 

[OakTree23]

Pakistan sure was the weakest link of Indian subcontinent though given it's geography. No kingdoms managed to survive longer than a few centuries before another group of invaders arrived.
Central Asian migration is true given there exist a lack of historical data that talks about any war it's probably that they assimilated with local traditions and formed the early vedic traditions.

You seem like a sensitive Indian member, I’ve been meaning to ask this from an Indian member, of the loud Indians that we Pakistanis see in your media, social media that are seem to be obsessed with all thing Pakistan, how many truly are descendants of folks whose bloodline is Pakistani and had to migrate to India post partition.

this is anecdotal but every Indian I’ve met whose great grandparents or grandfathers that had to migrate to India, they are more or less indifference and honestly I’ve had good relationships with them. The anti Pakistani brigade in India all seems to resemble the ethnicities in the Ganges basin. Just trying to understand where the intergeneration trauma comes from in these people that have literally no connection to Pakistan or its provinces.

 

[OakTree23]

Btw part of my genetic dna shows direct connection to Hindu Shahis.

 

[AjayGhatak]

Genuine question, why do you people care about this shit so much.

I mean you have not kept the religion that came out of that civilization and settled for something from Middle east. Wasnt that your biggest point of Lahore declaration? A separate nation?

You do not even allow the language that originated in your lands to be an official language and take up Urdu and English as your official language.

So why care about IVC or anything like that? You erased "south asian" identity willingly. Why pretend to care about the past that you despice so much?

 

[Distant_Observer]

Genuine question, why do you people care about this shit so much.

I mean you have not kept the religion that came out of that civilization and settled for something from Middle east. Wasnt that your biggest point of Lahore declaration? A separate nation?

You do not even allow the language that originated in your lands to be an official language and take up Urdu and English as your official language.

So why care about IVC or anything like that? You erased "south asian" identity willingly. Why pretend to care about the past that you despice so much?

Indus is a geography. We are from this region so its our history. You don't get a say how and what we do with it.

 

[OakTree23]

So why care about IVC or anything like that? You erased "south asian" identity willingly. Why pretend to care about the past that you despice so much?

This will sound harsh and I hope the Mods do not ding me for saying this, but I personally despise most Indians on a fanatical level. I’m emotional stable enough to control the hate in real life. Even if you take away our frictional history, I would still feel the same way. I refrain myself for the most part here out of respect that it’s an international forum and yall are guests. I think the mods do a splendid job of inclusivity so the average Pakistani gets a chance to interact with the Indians in their raw form which makes our case for a separate destiny all that stronger. I hope that provides a a little clarity.

 

[FuturePAF]

Genuine question, why do you people care about this shit so much.

I mean you have not kept the religion that came out of that civilization and settled for something from Middle east. Wasnt that your biggest point of Lahore declaration? A separate nation?

You do not even allow the language that originated in your lands to be an official language and take up Urdu and English as your official language.

So why care about IVC or anything like that? You erased "south asian" identity willingly. Why pretend to care about the past that you despice so much?

Many Indians like to paint themselves and their beliefs as original and native to the land. They like to paint Muslims as foreigners. IVC is the proof that there existed a people before both religions entered the region. Both religion came later and interwove in the tapestry of the region.

The descendants of that civilization still live in Pakistan, make up most of the population, but as mixtures with peoples that came later. So no one despises the past, but we need to contextualize it. Most of the people of the IVC region follow a different way of life nowadays, from then or in intervening periods, and that way of life, many found would have been suppressed under a unified India, as we have been seeing. Hence the need for the separate polity of Pakistan, which also happens to constitute the majority of the territory of the IVC.

Its high time Pakistan no longer shy away from claiming the IVC, IMHO.

 

[AjayGhatak]

This will sound harsh and I hope the Mods do not ding me for saying this, but I personally despise most Indians on a fanatical level. I’m emotional stable enough to control the hate in real life. Even if you take away our frictional history, I would still feel the same way. I refrain myself for the most part here out of respect that it’s an international forum and yall are guests. I think the mods do a splendid job of inclusivity so the average Pakistani gets a chance to interact with the Indians in their raw form which makes our case for a separate destiny all that stronger. I hope that provides a a little clarity.

How the hell is that relevant? And more importantly, lol, are you okay? Do you need a hug? LOL!

 

[AjayGhatak]

We are from this region so its our history.

You threw that damned history away. LOL! You rejected it full heartedly and chose a totally different identity and nationhood for yourself. Why keep on circling back to it when you made your entire nation based on totally foreign concepts?

 

[FuturePAF]

This will sound harsh and I hope the Mods do not ding me for saying this, but I personally despise most Indians on a fanatical level. I’m emotional stable enough to control the hate in real life. Even if you take away our frictional history, I would still feel the same way. I refrain myself for the most part here out of respect that it’s an international forum and yall are guests. I think the mods do a splendid job of inclusivity so the average Pakistani gets a chance to interact with the Indians in their raw form which makes our case for a separate destiny all that stronger. I hope that provides a a little clarity.

Honestly, why despise most Indians? It’s not their fault,

They are just trying to get ahead in the system and state they were born into.

Both India and Pakistan are hundreds of years behind in terms of social investment, so in such a dynamic, it’s very competitive. The riots of 1940s came out of one or the other group fearing to would lose power to another.

Outside of the region, most are friendly towards each other. Especially along ethnic lines.

 

[Distant_Observer]

You threw that damned history away. LOL! You rejected it full heartedly and chose a totally different identity and nationhood for yourself.

It is evolution. Nature has a way, it looked for the best outcome that Indus can't be invaded again from barbarian hordes from the west and gangas. 4000 years in the making. It's been a long wait.

 

[AjayGhatak]

Its high time Pakistan no longer shy away from claiming the IVC, IMHO.

LOL!

Come back when Pakistani will find it easy to swallow that once this diety called Pashupati was worshiped in these land by the people of these lands who built among the first planned cities with drainage systems that kind of "worked" thousands years after the cities themselves were ruined.

 

[Distant_Observer]

LOL!

Come back when Pakistani will find it easy to swallow that once this diety called Pashupati was worshiped in these land by the people of these lands who built among the first planned cities with drainage systems that kind of "worked" thousands years after the cities themselves were ruined.

View attachment 95982

Culture and religion is ambiguous. Geography is fact.

hinduvita Modi types are really demented to deny another country its heritage and history. I think you have issues that need treatment.

 

[FuturePAF]

LOL!

Come back when Pakistani will find it easy to swallow that once this diety called Pashupati was worshiped in these land by the people of these lands who built among the first planned cities with drainage systems that kind of "worked" thousands years after the cities themselves were ruined.

View attachment 95982

Watch the video, Shiva/Rudram was addressed; adopting a local diety or iconography over an indo-European diety.

Pakistanis can accept their ancestors worshipped idol, sure, why not. The people of Mecca had hundreds of idols before Islam.

The majority of the people of Europe also had idols before adopting Christianity. Even in Catholicism, the over use of idols had a push back during the Protestant reformation, hence the reduced use of idols amongst Protestant Christians.

Currently the people of Africa have been moving away from their idols and animism, toward both these religions.