DeepSeek, China's AI model: News & Discussion

read thier paper first, dude, some of you guys are just coping hard right now, but but but:

Are you saying the CEO is a liar about using nvidia chips?
Certainly Chinese are liars and I wouldn't put it passed him to lie.

Point out in the paper where it says they aren't using nvidia chips since you have read their paper.
 
As i said Chinese are notorious liars and if you think the CEO is lying I won't argue with you about it.
Lol, then there is a lot to be answered on yankee's side, start the digging now!!! FBI, CIA!!!
 
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As i said Chinese are notorious liars and if you think the CEO is lying I won't argue with you about it.
Americans lie most, as the millions American Tik Tok refugees flock to Chinese app RedNote, many of them are angry and finding out the US gov and media have totally lied to them about China for decades.
 
Are you saying the CEO is a liar about using nvidia chips?
Certainly Chinese are liars and I wouldn't put it passed him to lie.

Point out in the paper where it says they aren't using nvidia chips since you have read their paper.
Apparently, deepseek prefers Huawei's Ascend, so the official statement was made
 

Chinese AI startup DeepSeek overtakes ChatGPT on Apple App Store

By Reuters
January 27, 2025

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Chinese startup DeepSeek’s AI Assistant on Monday overtook rival ChatGPT to become the top-rated free application available on Apple’s App Store in the United States.

Powered by the DeepSeek-V3 model, which its creators say “tops the leaderboard among open-source models and rivals the most advanced closed-source models globally”, the artificial intelligence application has surged in popularity among US users since it was released on Jan. 10, according to app data research firm Sensor Tower.

The milestone highlights how DeepSeek has left a deep impression on Silicon Valley, upending widely held views about US primacy in AI and the effectiveness of Washington’s export controls targeting China’s advanced chip and AI capabilities.

AI models from ChatGPT to DeepSeek require advanced chips to power their training. The Biden administration has since 2021 widened the scope of bans designed to stop these chips from being exported to China and used to train Chinese firms’ AI models.

However, DeepSeek researchers wrote in a paper last month that the DeepSeek-V3 used Nvidia’s H800 chips for training, spending less than $6 million.

Although this detail has since been disputed, the claim that the chips used were less powerful than the most advanced Nvidia products Washington has sought to keep out of China, as well as the relatively cheap training costs, has prompted U.S. tech executives to question the effectiveness of tech export controls.

Little is known about the company behind DeepSeek, a small Hangzhou-based startup founded in 2023, when search engine giant Baidu released the first Chinese AI large-language model.

Since then, dozens of Chinese tech companies large and small have released their own AI models, but DeepSeek is the first to be praised by the US tech industry as matching or even surpassing the performance of cutting-edge US models.
 
Since then, dozens of Chinese tech companies large and small have released their own AI models, but DeepSeek is the first to be praised by the US tech industry as matching or even surpassing the performance of cutting-edge US models.
Just like Chinese EVs and phones, soon dozens of out of nowhere new makers will just pop up everywhere across China.
 

China’s DeepSeek Tops iPhone Downloads and Spurs Asia Stocks

Story by Vlad Savov and Newley Purnell
• 1h

The DeepSeek application

The DeepSeek application© Bloomberg

(Bloomberg) -- Chinese startup DeepSeek’s eponymous AI assistant rocketed to the top of Apple Inc.’s iPhone download charts, stirring doubts in Silicon Valley about the strength of America’s lead in AI.

The app’s underlying artificial intelligence model is widely seen as competitive with OpenAI and Meta Platforms Inc.’s latest. Its claim that it cost much less to train and develop triggered share moves across Asia’s supply chain.

Chinese tech firms linked to DeepSeek, such as Iflytek Co., surged on Monday, while chipmaking tool makers like Advantest Corp. slumped on the potential threat to demand for Nvidia Corp.’s AI accelerators. US stock index futures also tumbled amid concerns that DeepSeek’s AI models may disrupt US technological leadership.

Lauded by investor Marc Andreessen as “one of the most amazing and impressive breakthroughs,” DeepSeek’s assistant shows its work and reasoning as it addresses a user’s written query or prompt. Reviews on Apple’s app store and on Alphabet Inc.’s Android Play Store praised that transparency. The app topped the free downloads chart on iPhones in the US and is among the most downloaded productivity apps in the Play Store.

The DeepSeek application arranged on a smartphone in Hong Kong, China.

The DeepSeek application arranged on a smartphone in Hong Kong, China.© Bloomberg

Founded by quant fund chief Liang Wenfeng, DeepSeek’s open-sourced AI model is spurring a rethink of the billions of dollars that companies have been spending to stay ahead in the AI race.

“While it remains to be seen if DeepSeek will prove to be a viable, cheaper alternative in the long term, initial worries are centered on whether US tech giants’ pricing power is being threatened and if their massive AI spending needs re-evaluation,” said Jun Rong Yeap of IG Asia.

Like all other Chinese-made AI models, DeepSeek self-censors on topics deemed politically sensitive in China. Unlike ChatGPT, DeepSeek deflects questions about Tiananmen Square, President Xi Jinping or the possibility of China invading Taiwan. That may prove jarring to international users, who may not have come into direct contact with Chinese chatbots earlier.

The initial success provides a counterpoint to expectations that the most advanced AI will require increasing amounts of computing power and energy —- an assumption that has driven shares in Nvidia and its suppliers to all-time highs.

The exact cost of development and energy consumption of DeepSeek are not fully documented, but the startup has presented figures that suggest its cost was only a fraction of OpenAI’s latest models. That a small and efficient AI model emerged from China, which has been subject to escalating US trade sanctions on advanced Nvidia chips, is also challenging the effectiveness of such measures.

“The US is great at research and innovation and especially breakthrough, but China is better at engineering,” computer scientist Kai-Fu Lee said earlier this month at the Asian Financial Forum in Hong Kong. “In this day and age, when you have limited compute power and money, you learn how to build things very efficiently.”

What Bloomberg Intelligence Says​

China’s strategic ambitions in AI should continue to pay off over the next 24 months, with the country set to further narrow the development gap with the US despite the semiconductor supply bottleneck. China’s emerging prowess in AI is a testament to its inherent strength in software development, positioning the nation as the leading challenger to the US.

 

Chinese AI firm making waves in Silicon Valley

By: AFP

Published: 12:49 PM, 27 Jan, 2025

Chinese AI firm making waves in Silicon Valley

Caption: Representational image.


Chinese firm DeepSeek's artificial intelligence chatbot has soared to the top of the Apple Store's download charts, stunning industry insiders and analysts with its ability to match its US competitors.

The programme has shaken up the tech industry and hit US titans including Nvidia and Meta, which has spent vast sums of cash to get ahead in the fast-developing AI sector.

Here's what you need to know about DeepSeek:

- Top performer -
DeepSeek was developed by a start-up based in the eastern Chinese city of Hangzhou, known for its high density of tech firms.

Available as an app or on desktop, DeepSeek can do many of the things that its Western competitors can do -- write song lyrics, help work on a personal development plan, or even write a recipe for dinner based on what's in the fridge.

It can communicate in multiple languages, though it told AFP that it was strongest in English and Chinese.

It is subject to many of the limitations seen in other Chinese-made chatbots like Baidu's Ernie Bot -- asked about leader Xi Jinping or Beijing's policies in the western region of Xinjiang, it implored AFP to "talk about something else".

But from writing complex code to solving difficult sums, industry insiders have been astonished by just how well DeepSeek's abilities match the competition.

"What we've found is that DeepSeek... is the top performing, or roughly on par with the best American models," Alexandr Wang, CEO of Scale AI, told CNBC.

That's all the more surprising given what is known about how it was made.

In a paper detailing its development, the firm said the model was trained using only a fraction of the chips used by its Western competitors.

- 'Sputnik moment'? -
Analysts had long thought that the United States' critical advantage over China when it comes to producing high-powered chips -- and its ability to prevent the Asian power from accessing the technology -- would give it the edge in the AI race.

But DeepSeek said they spent only $5.6 million developing their model -- peanuts when compared with the billions US tech giants have poured into AI.

Shares in major tech firms in the US and Japan have tumbled as the industry takes stock of the challenge from DeepSeek.

Chip making giant Nvidia -- the world's dominant supplier of AI hardware and software -- closed down more than three percent on Wall Street on Friday.

And Japanese firm SoftBank, a key investor in US President Donald Trump's announcement of a new $500 billion venture to build infrastructure for artificial intelligence in the United States, lost more than eight percent Monday.

Venture capitalist Marc Andreessen, a close advisor to Trump, described it as "AI's Sputnik moment" -- a reference to the Soviet satellite launch that sparked the Cold War space race.

"DeepSeek R1 is one of the most amazing and impressive breakthroughs I've ever seen," he wrote on X.

- Open source model -
Like its Western competitors Chat-GPT, Meta's Llama and Claude, DeepSeek uses a large-language model -- massive quantities of texts to train their everyday language use.

But unlike Silicon Valley rivals, who have developed proprietary LLMs, DeepSeek is open source, meaning anyone can access the app's code, see how it works and modify it themselves.

"We are living in a timeline where a non-US company is keeping the original mission of OpenAI alive -- truly open, frontier research that empowers all," Jim Fan, a senior research manager at Nvidia, wrote on X.

DeepSeek said it "tops the leaderboard among open-source models" -- and "rivals the most advanced closed-source models globally".

Scale AI's Wang wrote on X that "DeepSeek is a wake up call for America".

- 'Great things' -
Beijing's leadership has vowed to be the world leader in AI technology by 2030 and is projected to spend tens of billions in support for the industry over the next few years.

And the success of DeepSeek suggests that Chinese firms may have begun leaping the hurdles placed in their way.

Last week DeepSeek's founder, hedge fund manager Liang Wenfeng, sat alongside other entrepreneurs at a symposium with Chinese Premier Li Qiang -- highlighting the firm's rapid rise.

Its viral success also sent it to the top of the trending topics on China's X-like Weibo website Monday, with related hashtags pulling in tens of millions of views.

"This really is an example of spending a little money to do great things," one user wrote.

 

China’s 20x cheaper AI just triggered a tech stock meltdown

Japanese chip equipment manufacturers bore the brunt of selling, with Disco Corp dropping 2.6% and Advantest plunging 8.8%. China’s top chipmaker SMIC declined 2.9%, mirroring pre-market weakness in Nvidia shares after U.S. trading signals

b yKerem Gülen
January 27, 2025

Chinas-20x-cheaper-AI-just-triggered-a-tech-stock-meltdown.jpg


Asian technology stocks fell sharply Monday as Chinese AI startup DeepSeek sparked sector-wide concerns about artificial intelligence investment sustainability and pricing pressures, triggering selloffs in chip-related shares while boosting some Chinese tech giants.

Semiconductor stocks lead market declines​

Japanese chip equipment manufacturers bore the brunt of selling, with Disco Corp dropping 2.6% and Advantest plunging 8.8%. China’s top chipmaker SMIC declined 2.9%, mirroring pre-market weakness in Nvidia shares after U.S. trading signals. The selloff followed DeepSeek’s launch of its R1 model last week—a ChatGPT competitor that venture capitalist Marc Andreessen called “AI’s Sputnik moment” on X, referencing the Soviet satellite that triggered the space race.

Tokyo Electron and Fujikura saw concentrated selling after months of AI-driven gains, with Furukawa Electric plummeting 11.3%—the worst performer in Japan’s Nikkei 225. The cable manufacturer had surged since November due to data center demand before Monday’s reversal. A Tokyo-based fund manager linked the tech rout to recalculated AI hardware expectations: “The market was readjusting to the idea that hardware spending on AI could be a lot lower than current estimates.”

Banking sector diverges from tech slump
Japan’s Topix index rose 0.2% as investors reacted to the Bank of Japan’s 0.25% rate hike last week. Shares of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Group, and Mizuho Financial Group all climbed about 1% on expectations of improved lending margins. This contrasted with the tech-heavy Nikkei’s performance, highlighting sector-specific impacts from the AI news.

DeepSeek’s pricing upends AI economics​

Bernstein analysts revealed Sunday that DeepSeek’s models undercut OpenAI by 20-40 times on pricing. The Chinese firm charges $0.55 per million tokens for its Reasoner model compared to OpenAI’s $15 for equivalent usage of its o1 model. Tokens—the basic units AI uses to process text, equivalent to about three-quarters of a word—have become a key cost metric in generative AI operations.

Open-source vs proprietary model debate​

DeepSeek’s open-source approach contrasts sharply with OpenAI’s closed system, with Bernstein noting the development “brings up very interesting questions about the viability of proprietary versus open-source efforts.” The pricing gap coincides with DeepSeek topping U.S. App Store downloads ahead of ChatGPT, despite being a relatively unknown Chinese startup until recently.

Barclays’ Mitul Kotecha highlighted market surprise at China’s tech advancements: “The fact they’re able to achieve high-end tech has caught a lot of people by surprise… this seems to be what’s driving the shift in sentiment today.” The comments follow U.S. efforts to restrict Chinese access to advanced semiconductor technology through export controls.

Mixed regional market reactions​

Hong Kong’s Hang Seng Index gained 0.9% led by Tencent (+1.2%) and Alibaba (+0.8%), while Chinese AI specialist iFlytek rose 1.75%. The divergence reflects both DeepSeek’s domestic success and lingering questions about global AI infrastructure needs. U.S.-listed Chinese tech stocks showed early strength in pre-market trading despite the semiconductor sector’s woes.

Uncertainty over selloff duration​

A dealer at a major Japanese brokerage noted conflicting market signals: “It’s hard to say how long the pain will last… some clients are using the DeepSeek news as an excuse to lock in profits on stocks that had performed well since January.” Traders await U.S. market opens for clearer direction, with Nvidia’s performance seen as a key bellwether.

DeepSeek claims its competitive models were developed on a “bootstrapped budget,” challenging assumptions that AI leadership requires massive capital expenditures. This assertion comes as global tech firms have committed billions to AI chip clusters and data centers, with Nvidia’s market value surpassing $3 trillion earlier this month.

The startup’s rapid ascent—from obscurity to topping app charts and rattling global markets within days—has intensified debates about AI development costs. Bernstein’s analysis suggests DeepSeek’s pricing could force industry-wide margin compression, particularly for companies relying on proprietary model revenue.

 

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