Pakistan Turkey Defence Updates

[That_Guy]

I'm so glad Pakistan is doubling down on Turkish systems. It helps Pakistan diversify away from solely relying on China, and breeds healthy competition for Pakistan's defense market.

 

[Ak01]

tbh, after all the hype, quite a disappointing outcome, havasoj was inevitable

 

[hodor]

tbh, after all the hype, quite a disappointing outcome, havasoj was inevitable

You can be a partner in everything we produce, but most of the products we produce are still in development. The helicopter engine will enter mass production in 2027 and the Kaan engine in 2033. You are already good at ballistic and cruise missiles. You don't need new vehicles in land vehicles either. You are our biggest partner in ship production.

I think the Turkish defense industry needs a little more time.

 

[hodor]

On the other hand, you could have co-produced with Baykar, like Indonesia, but I haven't heard any news about that.

 

[PakShaheen_79]

Did Pakistan and Turkiye signed any agreement or contract. Because MoU is nothing concrete.

 

[Ak01]

HAVASOJ is coming to Pakistan ! Yay!!!

i dont think this is in reference to havasoj, rather, a broad spectrum of ECM equiptment. HavaSoj was already coming to Pakistan,

Pakistan to Convert a Bombardier Jet into an Electronic Warfare Aircraft - Quwa

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) revealed that it will convert its lone Bombardier Global 6000 business jet into a stand-off jammer with Turkiye’s help.

quwa.org

 

[Ak01]

You can be a partner in everything we produce, but most of the products we produce are still in development. The helicopter engine will enter mass production in 2027 and the Kaan engine in 2033. You are already good at ballistic and cruise missiles. You don't need new vehicles in land vehicles either. You are our biggest partner in ship production.

I think the Turkish defense industry needs a little more time.

a production partnership is not the goal, this is available from everywhere, a development partner is what they aim to be, though, theyre not great at forward thinking

 

[hodor]

a production partnership is not the goal, this is available from everywhere, a development partner is what they aim to be, though, theyre not great at forward thinking

I think we are being conservative about "development partnership"

 

[JamD]

a production partnership is not the goal, this is available from everywhere, a development partner is what they aim to be, though, theyre not great at forward thinking

HAVASOJ has been coming to PAF since 2019. @Quwa I think I told you about this too.

I've also spoken multiple times of all of these MoUs. Unfortunately they mean nothing. I'll get excited when I see an actual agreement with something solid.

Just as an example of how meaningless these MoUs are, do you remember this MoU?

Pakistan signs MoU with Turkey for joint production of ANKA UAV — Global Defense Insight

A contract is signed between Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) and Pakistan’s National Engineering and Science Commission (NESCOM) for the joint-production of “ANKA Unmanned Aerial Vehicles”. The contract will specifically ensure the development of ANKA unmanned aerial vehicle. Within the scope...

defensetalks.com

Well one of the key folks that signed this from the Turkish TA side literally pestered NESCOM chairman Raza Samar to sign something (kuch bhi) at IDEF. Raza Samar was hesitant saying he couldn't even do an MoU without meeting with his team and what not. However, the key TA person overcame and got this MoU signed. It was a totally meaningless photoop just a hopeless attempt to get the ball rolling.

Another MoU (I forgot which one but related to Kaan) was similarly forced by NASTP chairman onto head of Kaan. The only record of this MoU was a picture of the signing ceremony with a title lol in a record book at NASTP (I saw this lol). And this picture was brought up in the next JWG meeting to the Turks as the evidence of an MoU on which work must be done. JWGs are equally meaningless - every 6 months PAF wakes up then goes to sleep.

So you can imagine that having seen these things up close I have very very VERY little faith in these MoUs.

 

[Ak01]

HAVASOJ has been coming to PAF since 2019. @Quwa I think I told you about this too.

I've also spoken multiple times of all of these MoUs. Unfortunately they mean nothing. I'll get excited when I see an actual agreement with something solid.

Just as an example of how meaningless these MoUs are, do you remember this MoU?

Pakistan signs MoU with Turkey for joint production of ANKA UAV — Global Defense Insight

A contract is signed between Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) and Pakistan’s National Engineering and Science Commission (NESCOM) for the joint-production of “ANKA Unmanned Aerial Vehicles”. The contract will specifically ensure the development of ANKA unmanned aerial vehicle. Within the scope...

defensetalks.com

Well one of the key folks that signed this from the Turkish TA side literally pestered NESCOM chairman Raza Samar to sign something (kuch bhi) at IDEF. Raza Samar was hesitant saying he couldn't even do an MoU without meeting with his team and what not. However, the key TA person overcame and got this MoU signed. It was a totally meaningless photoop just a hopeless attempt to get the ball rolling.

Another MoU (I forgot which one but related to Kaan) was similarly forced by NASTP chairman onto head of Kaan. The only record of this MoU was a picture of the signing ceremony with a title lol in a record book at NASTP (I saw this lol). And this picture was brought up in the next JWG meeting to the Turks as the evidence of an MoU on which work must be done. JWGs are equally meaningless - every 6 months PAF wakes up then goes to sleep.

So you can imagine that having seen these things up close I have very very VERY little faith in these MoUs.

Agreed, the only one i forsee of being use is NRDI and TUSAS, ew stuff we already knew would be a thing.

Both Turkey and PN need a Naval Helicopter, so it sounds alot like NRDI will just give TUSAS a list of requirements and get them to build something for us lol

 

[JamD]

Agreed, the only one i forsee of being use is NRDI and TUSAS, ew stuff we already knew would be a thing.

Both Turkey and PN need a Naval Helicopter, so it sounds alot like NRDI will just give TUSAS a list of requirements and get them to build something for us lol

Yeah if only MoUs were a real thing. I think you guys are reading too much into this. We've also known about some form of havasoj being a thing since 2019 too.

 

[Ak01]

Yeah if only MoUs were a real thing. I think you guys are reading too much into this. We've also known about some form of havasoj being a thing since 2019 too.

fair point

 

[Quwa]

I'd put the most stock in the TAI-NRDI MoU, if only because NRDI (and by extension the PN) are relatively more serious about their projects than the others.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

How Turkey became one of the world’s leading manufacturers of weapons systems​

When militaries throughout the world need armored vehicles to deal with emerging threats, such as improvised explosive devices, they often look to Turkey.

The defense industry within Turkey has specialized in 4x4, 6x6 and 8x8 armored platforms, tracked infantry fighting vehicles as well as main battle tanks and weapon systems are manufactured by local private companies like FNSS, Otokar, BMC and Nurol Makina.

Besides its National Security Forces use of them, these systems are exported to a wide range of users worldwide. 8x8 PARS, 6x6 PARS, 6X6 ARMA; 4x4 COBRA, EJDER YALCIN, VURAN; ALTAY MBT and KAPLAN Medium Tanks are the most remarkable product samples of Turkish Defense Industry competing at the global markets.

Since it joined the North Atlantic Treaty Alliance in 1952, Turkey has been a critical member of the organization. As western nations sought to contain the expansion of Soviet communism, the addition of Turkey delivered the alliance a foothold in the Middle East.

In the 1980s, several NATO allies began an effort to modernize their weapons systems, a movement Turkey joined enthusiastically. The country also sought to develop its own capability for weapons production to reduce its dependence on foreign manufacturers. In the years since, Turkey’s success as a developer of weapons systems has led it to become a key supplier around the world.

The Turkish defense industry started its journey with licensed production of armored combat vehicles (ACV’s) and today has access to more complex vehicles and systems such as armored amphibious rigs, antitank vehicles, medium and main battle tanks together with a wide range of turret solutions.

Public-private partnership

An essential element of Turkey’s success has been its ability to take advantage of contributions from government and private industry. The government’s Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) was established in 1985, followed by the Turkish Armed Forces Foundation (TAFF) in 1987. Born of the merger of many similar foundations,