Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present
- Thread starter Ali_Baba
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925boy
Elite Member
Yes- many Muslim countries,esp. Gulf states have active ties with Israel,especially economic ties- some are buying weapons from Israel, several are doing serious economic activities with Israel (e.g. Turkey), so this is the current reality. Many Muslim countries carry out their relationships with Israel discreetly and privately.
Their relationships with Israel will soon be detrimental to them. Israel may restart the war, and then it will have no justification for not getting attacked be regional or/and oppositional world countries.
925boy
Elite Member
Kind of...but ok.
No Israel is not- Israel still has a potent danger coming from Lebanon that it hasn't dismantled yet (and this is just an example).
1. Iran is not alone.
2. Saying this means you underestimate Iran, or/and overestimate the Israeli+US capabilities-Iran can still do much actually, like close the strait of Hormuz. Its the West that is actually scared of real war- look at Israel losing/KIA + injured= 20-40K soldiers from fighting Gaza, Lebanon and Yemeni forces (in 15 months too)!! that's disastrous- at that rate, Iran can probably knock out 100K Israeli troops by the time its done fighting Israel. I guess Iran will show its "fangs" only when it is seriously provoked, which isn't likely still, but it is possible, especially as Western countries get more desperate for control of many aspects of the global world order.
Dalit
Elite Member
This is how shamefully and openly they are now discussing the matter of evicting the Palestinians from their own land.
hussain0216
Elite Member
The time for a Arab and wider Muslim alliance is essential with a NATO like Muslim military alliance
To pool finances and resources to plan combined military training and formalisation of weaponry so the Muslim world can confront issues like Palestine head on and forcefully if needs be
Persian Gulf
INT'L MOD
Against all odds of the world, Egypt rebuilds Gaza with its people kept on its land
these trucks, adorned with Egyptian flags for propaganda purposes, which is a really pathetic thing to do during a holocaust, have not entered Gaza yet
Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ
Trusted Member
The highlighted is the Trojan!
Projecting the disdain in Europe onto Arabs and Muslims in general. Muslims have never had a historical gripe against any single community, EVER!
It has always been about the right and wrong, our source and litmus, The Divine Guidance!
The ONLY path is strength to enforce peace and never to plead for it.
The SC
INT'L MOD
So opening roads in Gaza is pathetic ?
Hassan Al-Somal
Elite Member
"Under pressure from mediators, the resistance backed down and released the three prisoners today, but Israel has not yet committed to the humanitarian clause in the deal.
Caravans, engineering equipment, fuel, and tents were not retroactively allowed in, and the sea route was not opened to vehicles, even though all of this was part of the agreement that was signed with the guarantee of the mediators.
It is unfortunate that the mediators did not hold a conference to expose Israel's failure to abide by its commitments, and did not exert sufficient pressure on it as they did with the resistance.
On what basis will the resistance complete the negotiations and deals, and in the end it may be betrayed?
What is even more brazen is that Israel is pressuring the mediators to release the remaining six living prisoners in the next batch, and to extend the first phase of the deal to release more living prisoners, whose number is expected to be 37 living prisoners at best."
Meengla
Elite Member
Right.
The biggest issue with Israel is that it is refusing to integrate with the region and the root of that is a sense of cultural, civilizational, and racial superiority and those factors make Israel what it is. You can't be 'The Last Outpost of the West in the Middle East' while also make a claim to a land good distance from Europe going back thousands of years. On top of that, Israelis are willing to be a destabilizing force in the Middle East because it acts as a storage location of weaponry for an imperial alliance and acts like an attack dog should the regional countries not follow the Empire's policies.
Hypothetically speaking, who is to say that tomorrow if huge natural resources are discovered in Jordan or Morocco or wherever in that region the Empire imposes its own policies for exploration, $ amount etc and if those countries refuse then the attack dog would be unleashed on them. Imagine you discovered $5 trillion worth of natural resources and the Empire would want you to sell at $1 trillion. Trump has even said that Europe will be buying fossil fuel from America and I also recall him saying about some restrictions on the GCC countries about the export of their own natural resources. Got to give it to him for his audacity!
I don't think the regional countries truly realize how their long term peace, prosperity and growth potentials are being stalled by this vicious arm of an Empire. Just look at the number of dead and destruction in the last 25 years alone due to the Empire's policies in the Middle East. The Middle Eastern are a hardy, smart people, not addicted to drugs or alcohol and they have healthy diet and are physically robust people but they have fallen behind due to the imperialism to a large degree.
Joe Shearer
Professional
@Meengla
A friend quoted Theo Horesh, a professor at Cornell:
Israel’s defense minister let slip what may turn out to be their most carefully guarded secret in a speech last week. In a stunning revelation, he noted that Israel has provided “bereavement services” to 5,942 “families,” presumably of those who died over the past 15 months, while a whopping 15,000 service members have been wounded.
But that is the per capita equivalent of killing 300,000 Americans and wounding 750,000, a figure comparable to the 415,000 soldiers America lost in WWII and the 670,000 who were wounded—over a period four times as long as Israel’s recent murderfest. And it is roughly twice the wounded and five times the soldiers America lost in Vietnam—a war that was eight times as long.
At least those would be the numbers if a comparable percentage of the American population had been killed and wounded as that of the Jewish population of Israel. But if America suffered even a fraction of those losses, the country would be in social meltdown, as it was from its far smaller losses in Vietnam. And the human losses are compounded in the case of Israel by the near collapse of its tourist industry, its credit being repeatedly downgraded, and almost half of the country’s tech startups ups experiencing investment cancellations, as reported by the Israeli Ministry of Finance. Never mind the fact that it would be hard to keep a straight face while denying that Israel is now the most hated nation on the planet, which as a result of the repulsion so many feel toward it has lost allies across Latin America and the Middle East.
Israeli occupation forces are telling a different story, though. Even though much of the Israeli press was reporting 12,000 wounded in October, in keeping with a total of 15,000 wounded by January, the IDF report that 900 soldiers have been killed and 5,600 wounded—a far smaller figure than that listed by the Ministry of Defense. Israel’s military has produced a steady stream of lies since Oct. 7, so we should take their proclamations with a hefty dose of skepticism. But even these clearly doctored figures would represent devastating losses. For if Hamas and Hezbollah had killed and wounded a comparable percentage of the American population, it would have nevertheless amounted to a jaw dropping 45,000 dead and 280,000 wounded—a virtual Vietnam in just a year.
So, even if we accept the most dishonest army in the world’s figures, which their own Minister of Defense and all the Israeli papers contradicted, Hamas and Hezbollah still chewed through Israeli young men and women ten times faster than the universally renowned crack force of the Vietcong did with Americans shortly after their peak of power in the Second World War. And while they themselves suffered massive losses, it is good to recall Henry Kissinger’s dictum, “A resistance movement wins by not losing, a conventional army loses by not winning.” In the meantime, the US State Department reports that Hamas has largely replenished its ranks, and even if every single person who Israel killed in its indiscriminate attacks on civilian targets in Lebanon was a part of Hezbollah, a dubious proposition at best, they would have only lost 4 percent of their 100,000 troops, which they could have easily made up for in new recruits disgusted by Israel’s destruction of their country.
Meanwhile, Israel’s Finance Ministry reports that they will have spent about $70 billion on the “war” by the end of 2025, assuming that the fighting does not start up again. And that is the per capita equivalent of $3.5 trillion, a figure comparable to what the United States spent on the War on Terror, with all its wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and beyond, over the course of a generation—amid collapsing tourist and tech industries, and an outflow of almost 9 percent of its Jewish population leaving the country.
Those are the hard numbers, but Israel’s prospects look even bleaker when considered in light of other states that try to exterminate another people—as they are typically either destroyed from without, collapse from within, or shrivel up and die, like Assad’s Syria. And it is all the worse with the most exterminationist states like Nazi Germany, whose attacks on multiple neighboring states, amid the most murderous genicide of the last century, probably presents the best analogy to Israel today.
Israel has proven itself to be at best a cruel society, and in the eyes of many simply sociopathic. The recklessness with which it has made war with the world, through its attacks on every protective feature of the international order, coupled with the collapsing independence of its courts, will likely make investors wary for decades to come. It will likely lead to a continued outflow of citizens back to their home countries and a declining rate of immigration, which will compound its demographic troubles. And holding the unrivaled title for most hated state in the world, whose leaders are wanted for war crimes, will make investors even warier. That might not make Israel any more at risk militarily on the face of things. But more fighting will only compound its social, political, and economic troubles, and those troubles will have knock on effects for the military, particularly in the procurement of ammunition and the morale of troops.
Meanwhile, a generational shift is afoot in the Democratic Party, which lost many seats and quite possibly the presidential election last year as a result of its support for Israel’s perpetration of mass murder in Gaza. Support for Palestine increasingly outpaces support for Israel among the party base, and it is only likely to increase in the aftermath of the Palestinian Holocaust, where a rage still simmers across significant portions of the electorate. That means that Israel can no longer count on the United States to provide it with free arms, while Europe can no longer be counted on not to sanction Israel. If boycotts and sanctions have long held out the greatest hope for ending Israel’s impunity, trashing their brand may hold out the greatest hope for Israel’s continued social and economic decline. It is in many ways the only hope for Palestinians, because unlike most exterminationist states, Israel isn’t just passing through a bad phase. Rather, Israel has always premised its existence on the erasure of Palestinians, which is why so many of their supporters have long believed that Israel itself must be dismantled and replaced with a democratic state, with equal rights for all, if Palestinians are ever to be free.
In any case, the question for Palestinians is how to translate Israel’s diminished status, associated with its social and institutional degeneration, into real political gains. The question for billions of Palestine’s supporters is how to strengthen their bargaining position. And publicizing Israel military and economic failures is a great place to start—as is constantly reminding everyone that Israel is the most hated state in the world, because nobody wants to invest in a pariah.
And even fewer people will want be members of the most detested nation on earth.
~ Theo Horesh, author of The Holocausts We All Deny
My friend, an eminent economist, had not checked the numbers that Professor Horesh used.
A friend quoted Theo Horesh, a professor at Cornell:
Israel’s defense minister let slip what may turn out to be their most carefully guarded secret in a speech last week. In a stunning revelation, he noted that Israel has provided “bereavement services” to 5,942 “families,” presumably of those who died over the past 15 months, while a whopping 15,000 service members have been wounded.
But that is the per capita equivalent of killing 300,000 Americans and wounding 750,000, a figure comparable to the 415,000 soldiers America lost in WWII and the 670,000 who were wounded—over a period four times as long as Israel’s recent murderfest. And it is roughly twice the wounded and five times the soldiers America lost in Vietnam—a war that was eight times as long.
At least those would be the numbers if a comparable percentage of the American population had been killed and wounded as that of the Jewish population of Israel. But if America suffered even a fraction of those losses, the country would be in social meltdown, as it was from its far smaller losses in Vietnam. And the human losses are compounded in the case of Israel by the near collapse of its tourist industry, its credit being repeatedly downgraded, and almost half of the country’s tech startups ups experiencing investment cancellations, as reported by the Israeli Ministry of Finance. Never mind the fact that it would be hard to keep a straight face while denying that Israel is now the most hated nation on the planet, which as a result of the repulsion so many feel toward it has lost allies across Latin America and the Middle East.
Israeli occupation forces are telling a different story, though. Even though much of the Israeli press was reporting 12,000 wounded in October, in keeping with a total of 15,000 wounded by January, the IDF report that 900 soldiers have been killed and 5,600 wounded—a far smaller figure than that listed by the Ministry of Defense. Israel’s military has produced a steady stream of lies since Oct. 7, so we should take their proclamations with a hefty dose of skepticism. But even these clearly doctored figures would represent devastating losses. For if Hamas and Hezbollah had killed and wounded a comparable percentage of the American population, it would have nevertheless amounted to a jaw dropping 45,000 dead and 280,000 wounded—a virtual Vietnam in just a year.
So, even if we accept the most dishonest army in the world’s figures, which their own Minister of Defense and all the Israeli papers contradicted, Hamas and Hezbollah still chewed through Israeli young men and women ten times faster than the universally renowned crack force of the Vietcong did with Americans shortly after their peak of power in the Second World War. And while they themselves suffered massive losses, it is good to recall Henry Kissinger’s dictum, “A resistance movement wins by not losing, a conventional army loses by not winning.” In the meantime, the US State Department reports that Hamas has largely replenished its ranks, and even if every single person who Israel killed in its indiscriminate attacks on civilian targets in Lebanon was a part of Hezbollah, a dubious proposition at best, they would have only lost 4 percent of their 100,000 troops, which they could have easily made up for in new recruits disgusted by Israel’s destruction of their country.
Meanwhile, Israel’s Finance Ministry reports that they will have spent about $70 billion on the “war” by the end of 2025, assuming that the fighting does not start up again. And that is the per capita equivalent of $3.5 trillion, a figure comparable to what the United States spent on the War on Terror, with all its wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and beyond, over the course of a generation—amid collapsing tourist and tech industries, and an outflow of almost 9 percent of its Jewish population leaving the country.
Those are the hard numbers, but Israel’s prospects look even bleaker when considered in light of other states that try to exterminate another people—as they are typically either destroyed from without, collapse from within, or shrivel up and die, like Assad’s Syria. And it is all the worse with the most exterminationist states like Nazi Germany, whose attacks on multiple neighboring states, amid the most murderous genicide of the last century, probably presents the best analogy to Israel today.
Israel has proven itself to be at best a cruel society, and in the eyes of many simply sociopathic. The recklessness with which it has made war with the world, through its attacks on every protective feature of the international order, coupled with the collapsing independence of its courts, will likely make investors wary for decades to come. It will likely lead to a continued outflow of citizens back to their home countries and a declining rate of immigration, which will compound its demographic troubles. And holding the unrivaled title for most hated state in the world, whose leaders are wanted for war crimes, will make investors even warier. That might not make Israel any more at risk militarily on the face of things. But more fighting will only compound its social, political, and economic troubles, and those troubles will have knock on effects for the military, particularly in the procurement of ammunition and the morale of troops.
Meanwhile, a generational shift is afoot in the Democratic Party, which lost many seats and quite possibly the presidential election last year as a result of its support for Israel’s perpetration of mass murder in Gaza. Support for Palestine increasingly outpaces support for Israel among the party base, and it is only likely to increase in the aftermath of the Palestinian Holocaust, where a rage still simmers across significant portions of the electorate. That means that Israel can no longer count on the United States to provide it with free arms, while Europe can no longer be counted on not to sanction Israel. If boycotts and sanctions have long held out the greatest hope for ending Israel’s impunity, trashing their brand may hold out the greatest hope for Israel’s continued social and economic decline. It is in many ways the only hope for Palestinians, because unlike most exterminationist states, Israel isn’t just passing through a bad phase. Rather, Israel has always premised its existence on the erasure of Palestinians, which is why so many of their supporters have long believed that Israel itself must be dismantled and replaced with a democratic state, with equal rights for all, if Palestinians are ever to be free.
In any case, the question for Palestinians is how to translate Israel’s diminished status, associated with its social and institutional degeneration, into real political gains. The question for billions of Palestine’s supporters is how to strengthen their bargaining position. And publicizing Israel military and economic failures is a great place to start—as is constantly reminding everyone that Israel is the most hated state in the world, because nobody wants to invest in a pariah.
And even fewer people will want be members of the most detested nation on earth.
~ Theo Horesh, author of The Holocausts We All Deny
My friend, an eminent economist, had not checked the numbers that Professor Horesh used.
Hassan Al-Somal
Elite Member
Hassan Al-Somal
Elite Member
Khansaheeb
Elite Member
Not even the President of the US is above international law. ICC and ICJ should file cases against anyone who violates international law based on the facts. Aiding and abetting and encouraging crimes against humanity should be punishable.
Khansaheeb
Elite Member
A few thousand freedom fighters defeated the most powerful US backed military in the region, don't think it can get more humiliating than this in the annuls of warfare. These evil Israelis and their backers used the most heinous weapons in contemporary warfare and still lost. One true Muslim fighter is better than a hundred of them, let it be recorded in the history books.
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