HAIDER
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
After 100 billion EU spent on Ukraine war, US told them Russia is not their enemy ......lolllllllllllllll .....Germany is furious and lost billions of dollars in trade with Russia.
Russia-Ukraine War - News, Discussions & Updates
- Thread starter ghazi52
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j_hungary
Professional
Well, your entire thesis is based on the west with withdraw support to Ukraine.
Again, this is NOT going to happen, in fact, NATO let Ukraine in too many secret for them to get rolled back to Russian sphere of influence or China if it was even worse. For all intend and purpose, Ukraine is already in NATO, when NATO give them everything they have in their arsenal (Tanks, Artillery, Drone, Fighter Plane and so on) except warship, the short time that these platform were given mean they don't have time to scrub the secret in it, which mean whatever platform were send, the Ukrainian have to know how NATO work to use such weapon, I don't think NATO is going to change everything they do just to give Ukraine back, it's still doable when NATO is sending Javelin or Stinger or Starstreak or what not, once tanks, artillery, and fighter plane got involved, that's ball game, it can never leave. It's like losing Australia or Japan to Russia and China.
For Kursk, first of all, unless Russia performance is going to be more bismal than now, so they can claim Kursk make progress for them. It most definitely work in Ukraine favor than Russia, this is very obvious, as Ukraine territories loss has stamped. With what? 3 Brigade in there? Look at Feb 2024 and compare them with Feb 2025. Last year same time, Russian made a big push and took Avdiivka and Semenvika and close the 7 km cauldron. Since then in 2025 now, the Russian pushed 25km from there (in 1 year) to Horlivka, and nothing in Provosk region except realign the line (which I said what they will do last year) but then Kursk got invaded themselves, and today 6 months later, Ukraine still hold at least half of what they had in Kursk, that itself is a net lose, but the entire line pushed around 10-25 km inward in a year time. What is the advantage the Russian had? The only conclusion anyone can have is that Russian progress is slowed down by the Kursk incursion, not the other way around.
I don't know what Russia wants before it started this war, but if their goal is to take 20% of Ukraine and conquer Donbas and taken all the resource in there, and take all its mineral, then I will say they fought a wrong war. Also, as a person who studied economy, I can say fairly Russian economy is doomed, unless China come to the rescue (not sure if they will) because Russia is paying credit card rate in their economy for this war. And this is going to impact them even if the war stop tomorrow, interest rate is not just a refence, you really need to pay off those interest when people's deposit mature. Meaning Russian paying of 21.5% interest rate for about 2 years now in order to stem the currency flow, which in order to stop the inflation means they already have to pay off 47% more in interest (interest is compound, if you deposit 1 rouble in 2023, at 21.5% annum you get 1.215 rouble back in 2024 and you will get 1.476 rouble in 2025) That expanded the debt for about 50% in just 2 years thanks to this interest rate. how are you going to be able to pay that off even if the war ends today, interest rate will not go down today? And then you also restrict the flow of capital, that why you hike the interest rate to begin with, but then what? You limited economy growth because you limited how much money you have in circulation, which mean GDP dropped, and the government have a lower output, putting it with half the industry is now engaging in war economy (46% of Russian GDP coming from Defence sector) which is of no use once the war stopped. Can you even support that high interest rate? The longer this war drag on, the more debt Russia incurred. again, more than credit card rate.
The west perspective is that they want to support an independent Ukraine, they don't want to defeat the Russian either, that's message was quite clear from what they are sending to Ukraine, the West did enough Ukraine not to collapse, but not enough to change the dynamic, otherwise you will be seeing division of tanks being send, instead of "Battalion" of tanks, and Ukraine would have all the F-16 (some 200) currently sitting in Davis-Monthan airbase in the graveyard, which is doing nothing, but no, we gave them 20, in fact, US gave them none.
Han Patriot
Registered Member
You fcking kidding me? M2K? Seriously? Is the Ukraine the dumping ground for outtdated weapons? Should have sent in some rafales if they are serious about it.
Mero
Registered Member
Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold
Panic in Kyiv as US president demands higher share of GDP than Germany’s First World War reparations
Donald Trump’s demand for a $500bn (£400bn) “payback” from Ukraine goes far beyond US control over the country’s critical minerals. It covers everything from ports and infrastructure to oil and gas, and the larger resource base of the country.
The terms of the contract that landed at Volodymyr Zelensky’s office a week ago amount to the US economic colonisation of Ukraine, in legal perpetuity. It implies a burden of reparations that cannot possibly be achieved. The document has caused consternation and panic in Kyiv.
The Telegraph has obtained a draft of the pre-decisional contract, marked “Privileged & Confidential’ and dated Feb 7 2025. It states that the US and Ukraine should form a joint investment fund to ensure that “hostile parties to the conflict do not benefit from the reconstruction of Ukraine”.
The agreement covers the “economic value associated with resources of Ukraine”, including “mineral resources, oil and gas resources, ports, other infrastructure (as agreed)”, leaving it unclear what else might be encompassed. “This agreement shall be governed by New York law, without regard to conflict of laws principles,” it states.
The US will take 50pc of recurring revenues received by Ukraine from extraction of resources, and 50pc of the financial value of “all new licences issued to third parties” for the future monetisation of resources. There will be “a lien on such revenues” in favour of the US. “That clause means ‘pay us first, and then feed your children’,” said one source close to the negotiations.
It states that “for all future licences, the US will have a right of first refusal for the purchase of exportable minerals”. Washington will have sovereign immunity and acquire near total control over most of Ukraine’s commodity and resource economy. The fund “shall have the exclusive right to establish the method, selection criteria, terms, and conditions” of all future licences and projects. And so forth, in this vein. It seems to have been written by private lawyers, not the US departments of state or commerce.
President Zelensky himself proposed the idea of giving the US a direct stake in Ukraine’s rare earth elements and critical minerals on a visit to Trump Tower in September, hoping to smooth the way for continued arms deliveries.
Volodymyr Zelensky proposed a US stake in Ukraine’s minerals production when he met Donald Trump in September Credit: Ukraine presidential press service /EPA-EFE/Shutterstock
He calculated that it would lead to US companies setting operations on the ground, creating a political tripwire that would deter Vladimir Putin from attacking again.
Some mineral basins are near the front line in eastern Ukraine, or in Russian-occupied areas. He has played up the dangers of letting strategic reserves of titanium, tungsten, uranium, graphite and rare earths fall into Russian hands. “If we are talking about a deal, then let’s do a deal, we are only for it,” he said.
He probably did not expect to be confronted with terms normally imposed on aggressor states defeated in war. They are worse than the financial penalties imposed on Germany and Japan after their defeat in 1945. Both countries were ultimately net recipients of funds from the victorious allies.
A new Versailles
If this draft were accepted, Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924. At the same time, he seems willing to let Russia off the hook entirely.Donald Trump told Fox News that Ukraine had “essentially agreed” to hand over $500bn. “They have tremendously valuable land in terms of rare earths, in terms of oil and gas, in terms of other things,” he said.
He warned that Ukraine would be handed to Putin on a plate if it rejected the terms. “They may make a deal. They may not make a deal. They may be Russian someday, or they may not be Russian someday. But I want this money back,” he said.
Trump said the US had spent $300bn on the war so far, adding that it would be “stupid” to hand over any more. In fact the five packages agreed by Congress total $175bn, of which $70bn was spent in the US on weapons production. Some of it is in the form of humanitarian grants, but much of it is lend-lease money that must be repaid.
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham suggested at the Munich Security Conference over the weekend that Trump’s demand was a clever ploy to bolster declining popular support for the Ukrainian cause. “He can go to the American people and say, ‘Ukraine is not a burden, it is a benefit,’” he said.
Sen Graham told the Europeans to root hard for the idea because it locks Washington into defending a future settlement. “If we sign this minerals agreement, Putin is screwed, because Trump will defend the deal,” he said.
Ukrainian officials had to tiptoe though this minefield at the Munich forum, trying to smile gamely and talking up hopes of a resource deal while at the same pleading that the current text breaches Ukrainian law and needs redrafting. Well, indeed.
Talk of Ukraine’s resource wealth has become surreal. A figure of $26 trillion is being cast around for combined mineral reserves and hydrocarbons reserves. The sums are make-believe.
Ukraine probably has the largest lithium basin in Europe. But lithium prices have crashed by 88pc since the bubble burst in 2022. Large reserves are being discovered all over the world. The McDermitt Caldera in Nevada is thought to be the biggest lithium deposit on the planet with 40m metric tonnes, alone enough to catapult the US ahead of China.
The Thacker Pass project will be operational by next year. The value of lithium is in the processing and the downstream industries. Unprocessed rock deposits sitting in Ukraine are all but useless to the US.
It is a similar story for rare earths. They are not rare. Mining companies in the US abandoned the business in the 1990s because profit margins were then too low. The US government was asleep at the wheel and let this happen, waking up to discover that China has acquired a strategic stranglehold over supplies of critical elements needed for hi-tech and advanced weapons. That problem is being resolved.
Ukraine has cobalt but most EV batteries now use lithium ferrous phosphate and no longer need cobalt. Furthermore, sodium-ion and sulphur-based batteries will limit the future demand growth for lithium. So will recycling. One could go on. The mineral scarcity story is wildly exaggerated.
As for Ukraine’s shale gas, a) some of the Yuzivska field lies under Putin control, and b) the western Carpathian reserves are in complex geology with high drilling costs, causing Chevron to pull out, just as it did in Poland. Ukraine has more potential as an exporter of electricity to Europe from renewables and nuclear expansion, but that is not what is on Donald Trump’s mind.
The second violation of Ukraine
Ukraine cannot possibly meet his $500bn demand in any meaningful timeframe, leaving aside the larger matter of whether it is honourable to treat a victim nation in this fashion after it has held the battle line for the liberal democracies at enormous sacrifice for three years. Who really has a debt to whom, may one ask?“My style of dealmaking is quite simple and straightforward,” says Trump in his book The Art of the Deal. “I aim very high, and then I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing to get what I’m after.”
In genuine commerce the other side can usually walk away. Trump’s demand is iron-fist coercion by a neo-imperial power against a weaker nation with its back to the wall, and all for a commodity bonanza that exists chiefly in Trump’s head.
“Often-times the best deal you make is the deal you don’t make,” said Trump, offering another of his pearls.
Zelensky does not have that luxury. He has to pick between the military violation of Ukraine by Putin, and the economic violation of Ukraine by his own ally.
Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold
Panic in Kyiv as US president demands higher share of GDP than Germany’s First World War reparations
www.telegraph.co.uk
Europe is the new Gaza for Trump.
BHAN85
Trusted Member
EU dumbfucks will pretend independence and sovereignty from USA, but they are more corrupt and slaves now than never.
USA orders now must be something like "pretend sovereignty from USA and face Russia alone" and they are doing so.
Take as example France and Macron, since 2 years ago, when France lost Niger Uranium (main source of electric energy for France are nuclear plant) they become more submissive than never to USA, and they are taking the lead to face Russia without USA right now.
So it's another USA movie of stupid lies.
EU is keeping obeying USA orders as they show disagree to Trump.
Mero
Registered Member
Except Macron is a pawn of the Anglo-Americans. Read the book - The American Trap or have DeepSeek give the summary to you.
The American Trap: My battle to expose America's secret economic war against the rest of the world: Pierucci, Frédéric: 9781529353617: Amazon.com: Books
The American Trap: My battle to expose America's secret economic war against the rest of the world [Pierucci, Frédéric] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The American Trap: My battle to expose America's secret economic war against the rest of the world
www.amazon.com
Since Macron works for the freemasons as ruler of the Freemasonic French, Macron is not for Ukraine and Europe crushing Russia. Macron is talk and talk. For unpopular ideas of a European army to get the public afraid of the EU and turn on the growing power of the EU. Macron is the American agent working against EU as Macron tries to win the EU public to be the de facto leader of the policies of the EU.
I was not wanting Le Pen to win, though if she did win, I wanted her to take France out of the EU. I did not want the UK out of the EU, though I am happy the UK is gone. Get the UK, France and US out of the business of a free independent Europe. Get Ukraine in the EU.
Jake Sullivan was not in it to win it. The Democrats have their role. There is more selection among leaders in China than there is in the US.
A major obstacle has been the US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan who has all along been afraid of “provoking” Putin to a nuclear war or World War III, not realizing that nothing provokes Putin like weakness and hesitance.
Sullivan opposed the US defense of the freedom of navigation in the Black Sea in April 2021, facilitating Putin’s blockade of Ukrainian ports from early 2022. He opposed or delayed all US deliveries of relevant arms to Ukraine, being afraid of provoking Putin. If President Biden wants to win the war in Ukraine, he needs to adopt a strategy to stand up to Putin, which seems to be his basic instinct.
First of all, the United States must declare that its goal is for Ukraine to win.
At long last, Biden has finally done so, but he must make it the main US policy.
A corollary is that Russia must be defeated.
Opinion: For a US Strategy on Ukraine
The United States must declare that its goal is for Ukraine to win and, at long last, must make it the main US policy. And the corollary is that Russia must be defeated.
www.kyivpost.com
US Defends Itself Against Accusations of Being ‘Too Timid’ in Arming Ukraine
National security adviser Jake Sullivan insisted the US was “prepared to take risks” in supplying weapons and was not “sitting around… worried about the Russians.”
www.kyivpost.com
Opinion: Is CIA Director Bill Burns Helping Ukraine to Win or Blocking It?
There have been worrying signs of collusion between some very senior US officials and the Kremlin on handling Ukraine and an investigation may be warranted.
www.kyivpost.com
There was another Ukraine article saying the war is going exactly to US plans. The US does not want the fall of Ukraine, nor wants Russia kicked out of Ukraine. That the main concern is not defeating Putin because Washington likes Putin there as ruler of the Russian Federation since the 20th century. Washington does not want Putin removed resulting from a crushing defeat. Neither wants Zelensky gone. So this scenario is exactly the policy of Biden, Trump and the other freemasons and pawns. Biden recently was made a freemason. The Trump family pastor was a freemason. The Anglo-American dominance project was a freemason project since Elizabeth I.
Europe and China have the common enemy. Washington uses Ukraine to keep Europe weak.
Maybe a few are waking up in Europe to how little the US cares about the full strength and independence of Europe. Strength of the euro, trade strength, economic strength. And not the military strength of buying US weapons as Trump wants.
Mero
Registered Member
Watch the video from this timestamp:
It is 100% zectech was saying on the of the original PDF:
Trump is into loyalty, if you serve Trump, mob boss Trump would say you have protection.
Zelensky had to prove loyalty to Trump in providing dirt on Trump rival Biden. Trump wanted Zelensky to betray the neo-liberal side for Trump protection from Russia. Trump knew the DC Beltway was fully supporting Biden in the Democratic Primary and Trump wanted to destroy that campaign.
Trump offers first the carrot then the stick. Are you a Trump loyalist, if Zelensky kissed the hand of the mob boss Trump, then Ukraine would have been safer. Expect more of the same mob boss Trump policy. When you declare independence from these mob bosses Putin and Trump, then expect the stick. I expect Trump to be conciliatory to Europe. Trump is going to first want to destroy political enemies domestically. If Europe kisses the hand of the mob boss Trump, then Trump offers protection if you pay in loyalty and service to the Trump crime family.
Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2
Mark this as the biggest lie in this forum posted within the last 12 months… did you ever check a random Ukrainian city before and after Russia liberated them, in fact simply flattened them? then don't hide weapons in schools and nursery and US did it all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan...
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