ziaulislam
Elite Member
Not true.. PAF wants f16, usa isnt giving it
PAF F-16 | Discussions
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Yasser76
Elite Member
Not relly, why would that be the case when PAF is literally on the verge of 5th Gen?
F-16s and any upgrades are a "nice to have" for PAF, just like the Mirage fleet was in the 90s and 00s. If we can get spare airframes and any upgrades, fine and dandy, and we should try, it is a beautiful platform, but just like the Mirages were the cutting edge in 60s and 70s then F-16 took on that role, now J-10C and J-35 are now the tip of the spear.
A wonderful long Pakistani love affair with the Viper is drawing to a close and what an incredible history it has had with PAF
12 confirmed and 5 unconfirmed kills, plus a UAV kill, victims were from 4 different air forces.
If J-10C and J-35 have even half that success rate, i will be very very happy
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
That is the problem with buying American - it requires expensive "monitoring" which has to be paid for by someone(most likely by Pakistan through inflated prices of the platform itself etc) and these sums should be factored into the Capex/opex of the platform.
Thankfully the F16 era is coming to an end - I can imagine in the next few years we will start seeing F16s get retired once the F7 and Mirages are finally completed.
FuturePAF
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
They want something that is holding them back, the US cutting them off will push them to do better, not unlike how the JF-17 program got it its impetus.
FuturePAF
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Doubt the F-16 will be retired until it literally has to be. Until then, gradually it will be moved to rear duty, as its technology gets superseded, should we have the economic means to supplant it with more modern platforms, where only finances are the limitations to acquisition.
We have to remember what happened to countries like Venezuela, when their politics have run afoul of the US, or even Iraq when maintenance support is limited or cutoff.
The PA Should take this as an opportunity to pivot to built COIN capabilities (tactical and operational capabilities of military units); buy Sniper XR pods for the F-16s from the US, as well as have the PA look to buy 3000-4000 of MRAPs as excess defense articles for $150-200 million, as well as seek those AH-1Z and Buy some Bell 412Ms. Put in a word with Trump that these purchases are contingent of the US influencing any neighboring countries friendly to America, to lay off supporting insurgents in Pakistan, and Pakistan will open up mining deals with the US as well.
Shift Pak-US relations to building our economy, and supporting Pakistani COIN in the unique ways only the US can.
Leave the future Fighter acquisitions to China, Turkey, and domestic industry. Fighter acquisitions from the US are set to end with the F-16, just like they ended with France with the Mirage 3/5.
Last edited:
Hussain
Trusted Member
I haven't read the actual notification, so just speculating - Amount is for "X" number of years, to be disbursed in "Y" number of tranches, therefore keeping "TST" in place for possibly 3 to 5 years?
Vortex
Trusted Member
View attachment 103472
US unfreezes $397 million to ensure Pakistan’s F-16 jets focus on ‘counterterrorism’
In 2019, Pakistan faced accusations of deploying U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets against India during an aerial skirmish over Kashmir
February 23, 2025
The Donald Trump administration has unfrozen $397 million for a U.S.-backed program in Pakistan aimed at ensuring U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets are used solely for “counterterrorism operations” and not against rival India, according to a list of exemptions reviewed by Reuters.
In 2019, Pakistan faced accusations of deploying U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets during an aerial skirmish over Kashmir.
The incident raised concerns in Washington about potential violations of agreements restricting the use of U.S.-supplied military equipment to counterterrorism operations.
The Trump administration has released $5.3 billion in previously frozen foreign aid, mostly for security and counternarcotics programs, according to a list of exemptions reviewed by Reuters that included only limited humanitarian relief.
President Donald Trump ordered a 90-day pause on foreign aid shortly after taking office on January 20, halting funding for everything from programs that fight starvation and deadly diseases to providing shelters for millions of displaced people across the globe.
The freeze sparked a scramble by U.S. officials and humanitarian organizations for exemptions to keep programs going. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who has said all foreign assistance must align with Trump’s “America First” priorities, issued waivers in late January on military aid to Israel and Egypt, the top U.S. allies in the Middle East, and for life-saving humanitarian aid, including food. The waivers meant those funds should have been allowed to be spent.
Current and former U.S. officials and aid organizations, however, say few humanitarian aid waivers have been approved.
Reuters obtained a list of 243 further exceptions approved as of February 13 totaling $5.3 billion. The list provides the most comprehensive accounting of exempted funds since Trump ordered the aid freeze and reflects the White House’s desire to cut aid for programs it doesn’t consider vital to U.S. national security.
The list identifies programs that will be funded and the U.S. government office managing them.
The vast majority of released funds – more than $4.1 billion – were for programs administered by the U.S. State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military affairs, which oversees arms sales and military assistance to other countries and groups.
Other exemptions were in line with Trump’s immigration crackdown and efforts to halt the flow of illicit narcotics into the U.S., including the deadly opioid fentanyl.
Some of the released funds were for small expenditures — including $604 for Musk’s Starlink satellite internet system to run biometrics registration programs in the Darien Gap, a treacherous 60-mile route linking South and Central America used by U.S.-bound illegal migrants.
@Quwa @Bilal @ghazi52 @LeGenD @Oscar @Waz @Areesh @ARMalik @Clairvoyant @Cookie Monster @Dalit @DESERT FIGHTER @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @FuturePAF @GriffinsRule @HRK @HAIDER @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Khanivore @Khansaheeb @Maarkhoor @Mrc @Path-Finder @Panzerkiel @pwfi @Raja Porus @Reichmarshal @Signalian @StormBreaker @super falcon @Vortex @white and green with m/s @Yasser76 @Zarvan @ziaulislam
Meant for adding more downgrades in the downgraded capacities they have.
gusto
Trusted Member
F-16 is looked at with another angle, geopolitics.
administration on both sides take a leverage in F-16 saga.
in Pakistan, there is a very strong lobby favoring keeping a link with USA based on this jet.
administration on both sides take a leverage in F-16 saga.
in Pakistan, there is a very strong lobby favoring keeping a link with USA based on this jet.
Yasser76
Elite Member
Yes, much of the current brass flew the F-16 A/B, next 2-3 CAS and many future Vice Air Marshals and Air Marshals will likely have F-16 C/D/MLU backgrounds. This and exposure to all the US training programmes means for next 10-15 years at least PAF will have a very heavy pro US element in it, not withstanding many good officers associated with the JF-17 programme. No harm in that, US systems and training are world class.
However as time goes by however many very competent officers associated with our new network capabilities, AEW set up, J-10/J-36 programmes etc will take over the helms, many of these officers may well have been trained in UK/Aus/China instead of US, by that time too F-16 will be relegated to second line.
I think PAF are going through the same ideological/ training / cultural / technical shift they went through in 1950s, where we went from essentially a "Mini RAF" to a "Mini USAF"
Now we seem to be transitioning to sort of hybrid Pak/China/Euro model.
ghazi52
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
US unfreezes $397 million to ensure Pakistan’s F-16 jets focus on ‘counterterrorism’
- In 2019, Pakistan faced accusations of deploying U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets against India during an aerial skirmish over Kashmir
February 23, 2025
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sha...er.com/news/40349579&display=popup&ref=plugin
The Donald Trump administration has unfrozen $397 million for a U.S.-backed program in Pakistan aimed at ensuring U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets are used solely for “counterterrorism operations” and not against rival India, according to a list of exemptions reviewed by Reuters.
In 2019, Pakistan faced accusations of deploying U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets during an aerial skirmish over Kashmir.
The incident raised concerns in Washington about potential violations of agreements restricting the use of U.S.-supplied military equipment to counterterrorism operations.
The Trump administration has released $5.3 billion in previously frozen foreign aid, mostly for security and counternarcotics programs, according to a list of exemptions reviewed by Reuters that included only limited humanitarian relief.
President Donald Trump ordered a 90-day pause on foreign aid shortly after taking office on January 20, halting funding for everything from programs that fight starvation and deadly diseases to providing shelters for millions of displaced people across the globe.
The freeze sparked a scramble by U.S. officials and humanitarian organizations for exemptions to keep programs going. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who has said all foreign assistance must align with Trump’s “America First” priorities, issued waivers in late January on military aid to Israel and Egypt, the top U.S. allies in the Middle East, and for life-saving humanitarian aid, including food. The waivers meant those funds should have been allowed to be spent.
Current and former U.S. officials and aid organizations, however, say few humanitarian aid waivers have been approved.
Reuters obtained a list of 243 further exceptions approved as of February 13 totaling $5.3 billion. The list provides the most comprehensive accounting of exempted funds since Trump ordered the aid freeze and reflects the White House’s desire to cut aid for programs it doesn’t consider vital to U.S. national security.
The list identifies programs that will be funded and the U.S. government office managing them.
The vast majority of released funds – more than $4.1 billion – were for programs administered by the U.S. State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military affairs, which oversees arms sales and military assistance to other countries and groups.
Other exemptions were in line with Trump’s immigration crackdown and efforts to halt the flow of illicit narcotics into the U.S., including the deadly opioid fentanyl.
Some of the released funds were for small expenditures — including $604 for Musk’s Starlink satellite internet system to run biometrics registration programs in the Darien Gap, a treacherous 60-mile route linking South and Central America used by U.S.-bound illegal migrants.
Starlord
Trusted Member
This news could be seen with few lenses.
1) Recently US offered India F-35's and IAF has not made a decision yet, but they are still in talks with France and Russia for future orders of 5th and 4.5 Gen fighters, so this release could be a way to deter India, if this amount could be used for upgrading PAF F-16's all of them to V Standard this could significantly boost its capability.
2) This could be used for spare parts, keeping them operational, leverage over Pakistan/PAF for as long as they can hold.
3) I doubt any more order of new/old F-16's will be placed, its very unlikely PAF will even bother after all those Fiasco of more used F-16's or AH-Z1 Attack Helicopters.
4) Or these funds as suggested will be used for the Team that monitors PAF F-16's so they can live in Gold build houses in Pakistan, and eat all the good Biryani's and Chicken Karahi they want, who would wants to eat American Cheese burger or those Salt/pepper medium rare steaks with no taste LOL
1) Recently US offered India F-35's and IAF has not made a decision yet, but they are still in talks with France and Russia for future orders of 5th and 4.5 Gen fighters, so this release could be a way to deter India, if this amount could be used for upgrading PAF F-16's all of them to V Standard this could significantly boost its capability.
2) This could be used for spare parts, keeping them operational, leverage over Pakistan/PAF for as long as they can hold.
3) I doubt any more order of new/old F-16's will be placed, its very unlikely PAF will even bother after all those Fiasco of more used F-16's or AH-Z1 Attack Helicopters.
4) Or these funds as suggested will be used for the Team that monitors PAF F-16's so they can live in Gold build houses in Pakistan, and eat all the good Biryani's and Chicken Karahi they want, who would wants to eat American Cheese burger or those Salt/pepper medium rare steaks with no taste LOL
Quwa
Research Partner
The monitoring is likely tied to the supply of spare parts and other after-sales support. So, for as long as the PAF wants to keep the F-16s flying, it needs to comply with these terms.
However, with the current CAS bringing up the J-31 or J-35AE, the PAF may be signalling that it's taking the steps to close the book on the F-16. In fact, of all the jets the PAF pointed its finger at, it did so on the FGFA option that's closest to coming to fruition. In other words, the CAS made a serious statement re: both the PAF's next-gen plans and, potentially, how the PAF really views the F-16 (i.e., it's no longer a long-term factor due to the aging Block-15s).
IMO... The PAF should set up an Air National Guard or National Air Reserve force, and then assign the F-16C/D Block-52s there. Make the ANG/NAR focus on COIN/CT and internal security, freeing the PAF proper to focus on external threats. The US can go and monitor the F-16s to its heart's content there.
However, with the current CAS bringing up the J-31 or J-35AE, the PAF may be signalling that it's taking the steps to close the book on the F-16. In fact, of all the jets the PAF pointed its finger at, it did so on the FGFA option that's closest to coming to fruition. In other words, the CAS made a serious statement re: both the PAF's next-gen plans and, potentially, how the PAF really views the F-16 (i.e., it's no longer a long-term factor due to the aging Block-15s).
IMO... The PAF should set up an Air National Guard or National Air Reserve force, and then assign the F-16C/D Block-52s there. Make the ANG/NAR focus on COIN/CT and internal security, freeing the PAF proper to focus on external threats. The US can go and monitor the F-16s to its heart's content there.
gusto
Trusted Member
i am waiting and if it goes through with India on F-35, although i doubt it.
if it happens, it will open F-16 upgrades and/or a new/old batch induction for Pakistan (just my thought)
looking at those developments on FGFA with China, will Pakistan shy away from it?
they will probably fall for it. it is the military not just PAF who take a decision when it comes to US, until it is the end of the story from the other side.
i will not go into details because doing so would bring in polarized politics and ruin the discussion. but by not going into current circumstances recent developments to fleece Americans evidently show a tilt.
air marshal
Elite Member
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