PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[ghazi52]

 

[Ak01]

Right! Some members had already hinted at a follow up order some time back.
With reference to PAF - I wonder what the new modifications will be...?

none, unless needed (paf feedback)

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Pakistan wont stop at 20, do with that what you will. I expect more to come. I also suspect there will need to be some ironing out of issues before more come

I think it depends on the J35 timeline. If it arrives in 2028 or later, as I expect, there might be follow-up orders, and the number of J10Cs could be 36, 50, or 90, depending on how delayed the J35's arrival is in Pakistan. If the J35 arrives around 2026, which I personally believe is unlikely, the J10C order will likely remain at 20 or, at most, increase to 36. However, this is just my personal speculation, and I don't have any reliable information to support it.

 

[Ali Yusuf]

A rumor circulating on YouTube suggests that the PAF may not acquire additional J-10Cs due to a preference for developing the JF-17 PFX.

 

[Quwa]

A rumor circulating on YouTube suggests that the PAF may not acquire additional J-10Cs due to a preference for developing the JF-17 PFX.

To assess whether this is accurate, we'd need to see if the PAF sets up any major MRO facilities, e.g., engine MRO, d-level MRO, etc., for the J-10CE. If not, then that could be a big hint of a limited buy; but if so, then more J-10CEs will come.

 

[studsmart]

I think it depends on the J35 timeline. If it arrives in 2028 or later, as I expect, there might be follow-up orders, and the number of J10Cs could be 36, 50, or 90, depending on how delayed the J35's arrival is in Pakistan. If the J35 arrives around 2026, which I personally believe is unlikely, the J10C order will likely remain at 20 or, at most, increase to 36. However, this is just my personal speculation, and I don't have any reliable information to support it.

with j35 coming with 40 examples not sure if PAF will go beyond 36 j10CP. dont forget PAF is working on JFX and more blk3 to be produced. add to the list the L15.

I would like to see more delta squadrons of j10cp in paf colors. but with economic condition it seems not possible.

 

[Ali_Baba]

If platforms like the Kaan are coming aswell as the J31, then it would have made more sense for Pakistan to have leased the J10CEs if the fleet size is 36 units? Maybe PAF can sell them to the PLAAF if the J-35s turn up ( or other J10CE operator? ) rather than having a small fleet of J10CE's. The economies of scale will be problematic for the longterm support of the fleet if it remains at 2 squadrons.

 

[Michael]

Maybe PAF can sell them to the PLAAF if the J-35s turn up ( or other J10CE operator? ) rather than having a small fleet of J10CE's.

There's no chance of that!

1, The J-10C is at the low end of the PLAAF.

2, PLAAF's own version of the J-10C is not the same as PAF's J-10CE. They are two different versions.
J-10C is air superiority fighter. It is especially enhanced with airborne dogfighting capability.
The J-10CE is a multi-mission fighter. It has a weakened aerial dogfighting capability and a strengthened multi-mission capability.
They do not have the same radar, avionics, or internal layout.

 

[Indus Falcon]

The J-10CE is a multi-mission fighter. It has a weakened aerial dogfighting capability and a strengthened multi-mission capability.

Sorry, this info is incorrect. It is definitely on par wrt to PLAAF's J10.

 

[ThrustVector998]

Sorry, this info is incorrect. It is definitely on par wrt to PLAAF's J10.

What about the PL15 vs PL15E saga

 

[mythbuster]

Sorry, this info is incorrect. It is definitely on par wrt to PLAAF's J10.

Please read carefully what Micheal said ...... it's not a question of par and sub par ..both versions are optimized for different roles

 

[Michael]

Sorry, this info is incorrect. It is definitely on par wrt to PLAAF's J10.

It's not about who is stronger or weaker. It is about different choices based on different tactical positioning.

Modern AESA radars have a very large number (1000+) of T/R modules. Each T/R module is equivalent to a miniature radar. An array of countless miniature radars forms a modern AESA radar.
We divide these huge number of T/R modules into groups. Each group corresponds to a different job. ------ In general, most of T/R modules operate in low power mode, and even some of them stop working directly. Due to power supply constraints, AESA rarely operates in full power mode.
There is a resource allocation problem here. That is, for a 1200 T/R module AESA radar, how many T/R modules need to be allocated to each of the three groups: air-to-air, air-to-ground, and air-to-sea?

PLAAF's J-10C.
It is particularly enhanced with air superiority capabilities such as air search, air maneuver/flight speed, and large range/low fuel consumption. Its AESA radar will allocate more T/R modules for air-to-air scanning and will only reserve a small number of T/R modules for ground/sea scanning. It has relatively weak ground and sea capabilities. Also, we rarely see it mount more weapons. (Standard load: 2-3x sub tanks, 2x PL-10, 2x PL-15. Sometimes, 2x PL-15 is replaced with 2x rocket nests.)

PAF's J-10CE.
It emphasizes more on multi-mission capability. It will have a more balanced T/R module distribution for its AESA radar. Compared to PLAAF's J-10C, it has weakened air-to-air capability and enhanced ground/sea capability. Meanwhile, the PAF's J-10CE will mount more weapons. (Air-to-air loads: 2-3x sub-tanks, 2x PL-10, 4x PL-15.)

PLAAF's J-10C will carry more different avionics due to the different level of computerization of China-Pakistan's airborne tactical command system (if we take a closer look at the photos of the J-10C and the J-10CE, we can see some subtle differences in appearance).

Simply put. PLAAF's J-10C is like a guardsman. PAF's J-10CE is more like a warrior.

Overall. Due to the limitations of the J-10C itself, it can barely operate with the other main PLAAF fighters (J-16/J-20/J-35) with a reduced payload. Based on the cost factor, PLAAF equipped a certain number of J-10C fighters. In terms of performance, it is not comparable to the other main fighters of PLAAF.
Once AVIC's other mainstay fighters reach a certain level of production, these J-10Cs will also be fast-tracked into the retirement sequence. Of course, this will take several years.

 

[Indus Falcon]

What about the PL15 vs PL15E saga

Look at this way, how would it look for China, if they gave PAF a cutting edge version, while selling downgraded versions to other countries?

Do other countries / customers enjoy the same strategic relationship going back decades?

What was PAF's input that lead to J10A becoming a J10C?

PAF has always sprung surprises in actual combat, so lets wait and see what comes next?

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Look at this way, how would it look for China, if they gave PAF a cutting edge version, while selling downgraded versions to other countries?

Do other countries / customers enjoy the same strategic relationship going back decades?

What was PAF's input that lead to J10A becoming a J10C?

PAF has always sprung surprises in actual combat, so lets wait and see what comes next?

For block 3 JF-17 we also have PL-15E, standard PL-15 is only for J-10C, we are yet to be seen standard (PLAAF version of PL-15 range 200 km) on JF-17 block 3

 

[Indus Falcon]

For block 3 JF-17 we also have PL-15E, standard PL-15 is only for J-10C, we are yet to be seen standard (PLAAF version of PL-15 range 200 km) on JF-17 block 3

@Michael validated something very interesting, some time back.

Once a missile is sold, China has no control over how it is modified by the end user.