Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present

[Persian Gulf]

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[Persian Gulf]

As for the logistics I already wrote that KSA had little say in this given the power disparity with the US. But the idea that KSA supported the removal of Saddam Hussein is complete and utter nonsense and easily debunked as I did.

Being against this and at the same time being forced to/coerced is a different story.

So Saudi Arabia was forced by the USA to let the US use Saudi territory for logistics and operations and as a base to invade Iraq? Saudi Arabia is not a sovereign nation? Any evidence that it at least complained about this arrangement at the time?

 

[_Arabia_]

As for the logistics I already wrote that KSA had little say in this given the power disparity with the US. But the idea that KSA supported the removal of Saddam Hussein is complete and utter nonsense and easily debunked as I did.

Being against this and at the same time being forced to/coerced is a different story. Later, not sure how, KSA somehow managed to throw the US out but they returned in Qatar, UAE and Kuwait (present since 1991) instead.

Unless you believe that KSA or any country for that matter could stop a mad dog like the US after 9/11, the invasion of Afghanistan that was hell-bent on invading/destroying Iraq to the point that they even soured relations with main European allies such as France, Germany and others.

Anyway you are right, we are off-topic, so I am ending it here.

KSA leased those military bases to the US after 1991. KSA and the US had signed a contract. It expired soon after and the US was subsequently told to leave which they did.

As I wrote in my previous post:

"Being against this and at the same time being forced to/coerced is a different story. Later, not sure how, KSA somehow managed to throw the US out but they returned in Qatar, UAE and Kuwait (present since 1991) instead.

Unless you believe that KSA or any country for that matter could stop a mad dog like the US after 9/11, the invasion of Afghanistan that was hell-bent on invading/destroying Iraq to the point that they even soured relations with main European allies such as France, Germany and others.

Anyway you are right, we are off-topic, so I am ending it here."
​

This is very different from USA invading Iraq from Saudi Arabian territory (not the case) and KSA somehow being in favour of said invasion contrary to facts on the ground and numerous public statements before that war. I was a small boy during that era but I remember the constant KSA opposition to that invasion very vividly and it was the main talk for months/years at time until it finally occurred 22 years ago. It was a huge thing as it impacted KSA a lot.

 

[Starlord]

How? Nobody has found an answer.

Hamas could easily be removed from power after 6 months of intense bombing of Gaza, Hamas would've accepted truce, as long as Israel release hundreds of Palestinians, and withdraw from Gaza and stop bombing civilians, the reconstruction would've begun under UN and Allied forces in charge of Gaza, but that was never the case, more and more people are realizing now that Arabs have throw Palestinians under the bus very soon after the Oct 7th, they probably would've made a deal to make some noise for public consumption while no concrete steps will be taken to stop the onslaught, Gaza will be level with its population either killed or displaced, cause this what Arab leaders think will bring peace with Israel which is their biggest mistake, Israel from its birth is a expansionist country, it has very small land mass and it can't help but to expand its border by any means necessary, and if you see the map of Greater Israel which now IDF soldiers wear on their uniforms that including parts of Egypt, Lebanon, KSA, Jordan, Syria and Turkey, one by one they have eliminated all rivals and destroyed their military capabilities while turning Arab leaders docile, America can easily turn KSA military useless without firing a single bullet, Syria is done, Lebanon well without Hezbolla their military is worse than Sindh Police, Jordan king well LOL, Egypt got muscle but they have nothing special that can harm Israel, Israel Air forces outmatch Egyptian AF, whoever rules the sky will win the war.

 

[EugeneP]

This is exactly what is happening, 400 dead in 2 Air strikes and media is still question if that's ok, there is no example in human history where to save 50 +/- hostages any country was allowed to drop 2000lbs bombs on civilians killing 130+ children, we have hostage situations all the time but this is never about hostage, and Western media is fully complicit in this Genocide/Ethnic cleansing.

That logic works in the opposite direction too. Hamas is willing to take 50,000 casualties and still hold on to 50 hostages. If you extend the logic backward, Hamas was willing to lose Gaza for 1,000 Israeli casualties. This war is unlike any other war before.

 

[Mobius]

God Bless Yemen.....

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[Persian Gulf]

KSA leased those military bases to the US after 1991. KSA and the US had signed a contract. It expired soon after and the US was subsequently told to leave which they did.

As I wrote in my previous post:

"Being against this and at the same time being forced to/coerced is a different story. Later, not sure how, KSA somehow managed to throw the US out but they returned in Qatar, UAE and Kuwait (present since 1991) instead.

Unless you believe that KSA or any country for that matter could stop a mad dog like the US after 9/11, the invasion of Afghanistan that was hell-bent on invading/destroying Iraq to the point that they even soured relations with main European allies such as France, Germany and others.

Anyway you are right, we are off-topic, so I am ending it here."​

It is difficult to argue KSA did not support the invasion of Iraq when it was directly complicit as an enabler of that same invasion, even if not willingly.

We can end it there and focus on Palestine.

 

[Persian Gulf]

That logic works in the opposite direction too. Hamas is willing to take 50,000 casualties and still hold on to 50 hostages. If you extend the logic backward, Hamas was willing to lose Gaza for 1,000 Israeli casualties. This war is unlike any other war before.

Do you really think Israel would end the genocide if Hamas released the remaining prisoners? Israel is bombing their own prisoners in Gaza every day while denying them food and electricity, they do not give a shit about their prisoners in Gaza.

Hamas and Israel agreed to the 3 stage ceasefire deal and Hamas abided by the terms. Israel then refused to abide by the stage 2 terms they agreed and tried to impose different terms on Hamas. Israel has never accepted that it will end the war, Bibi told the media even if Hamas releases the hostages they will not end the war.

 

[EugeneP]

Hamas could easily be removed from power after 6 months of intense bombing of Gaza, Hamas would've accepted truce, as long as Israel release hundreds of Palestinians, and withdraw from Gaza and stop bombing civilians,

I have never seen any credible analysis of this possibility. Of course, I am willing to learn if you cite sources.

 

[Starlord]

That logic works in the opposite direction too. Hamas is willing to take 50,000 casualties and still hold on to 50 hostages. If you extend the logic backward, Hamas was willing to lose Gaza for 1,000 Israeli casualties. This war is unlike any other war before.

No it does not, Hamas knows very well that even if they release Israel Hostages on 2nd day Israel would still carpet bomb Gaza, it was never about Hostages. And like I said, If 50 or so Hostage give IDF justification for 50,000 dead Palestinians, how many Israel's should Palestinians kill for thousands of Palestinians in Israel's jail ? What Israel has done and still doing is crazy, war crime and Genocide and if any other country has done even 10% of what they have done, the world would've reacted differently.

 

[Mobius]

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[p200]

That logic works in the opposite direction too. Hamas is willing to take 50,000 casualties and still hold on to 50 hostages. If you extend the logic backward, Hamas was willing to lose Gaza for 1,000 Israeli casualties. This war is unlike any other war before.

You have to go all the way back, not just stop at Oct 7. The innocent people of Gaza are willing to undergo this horror because it is better than continued suffering of zionist terrorism since 1948.

 

[EugeneP]

Do you really think Israel would end the genocide if Hamas released the remaining prisoners? Israel is bombing their own prisoners in Gaza every day while denying them food and electricity, they do not give a shit about their prisoners in Gaza.

Hamas and Israel agreed to the 3 stage ceasefire deal and Hamas abided by the terms. Israel then refused to abide by the stage 2 terms they agreed and tried to impose different terms on Hamas. Israel has never accepted that it will end the war, Bibi told the media even if Hamas releases the hostages they will not end the war.

My (admittedly simplistic) understanding for Israel to end its war is:
1. Return of hostages.
2. End of Hamas

(1) needs no explanation. (2) because they would never feel secure living next to an entity that committed violence.

Till both are true, war will continue one way or other. I don't see an alternate solution.

 

[_Arabia_]

It is difficult to argue KSA did not support the invasion of Iraq when it was directly complicit as an enabler of that same invasion, even if not willingly.

We can end it there and focus on Palestine.

But this is nonsense because those Saudi Arabian military bases were leased out to the US from 1991 onwards and KSA publicly and on numerous occasions voiced their displeasure with said US policies towards Iraq prior to 2003 and the proof of this is that the US were kicked out of KSA VERY SHORTLY after the invasion and immediately when the lease ended. They have not returned since, other than being given rights to use the Prince Sultan air base and a few select others UPON INVITATION and in particular during the air campaigns against ISIS in neighbouring Iraq and Syria.

And you have senior US diplomats saying that KSA was the one that pushed the most for the US NOT to invade Iraq and on the other hand we have a former Iranian president (on video) openly admitting that Iran worked with the US to topple Saddam Hussein. The same Iran that considered Saddam as the main threat and the same Iran that benefitted the most from the US invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussein. Clearly this is hardly a secret for any educated/knowledgeable person on this topic.

 

[Persian Gulf]

But this is nonsense because those cases were leased out to the US and KSA publicly and on numerous occasions voiced their displeasure with said US policies and the proof of this is that the US were kicked out of KSA VERY SHORTLY after the invasion and when the lease ended.

nice of them to kick them out AFTER they used Saudi territory to bomb Iraq, a bit late

if KSA felt that strongly about it they could have stopped it, but they didn't, and are factually complicit in it

And you have senior US diplomats saying that KSA was the one that pushed the most for the US NOT to invade Iraq and on the other hand we have a former Iranian president (on video) openly admitting that Iran worked with the US to topple Saddam Hussein. The same Iran that considered Saddam as the main threat and the same Iran that benefitted the most from the US invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussein. Clearly this is hardly a secret for any educated/knowledgeable person on this topic.

I never denied or discussed Iran's role, that was not the topic, that is just the topic you want it to be so you can deflect to talk about iran instead