PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

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What is options of twin engine jets for PAF ? F15 impossible, EU-2000 super-expensive, J11/
What is options of twin engine jets for PAF ? F15 impossible, EU-2000 super-expensive, J11/J16 IMPOSSIBLE because designs are Russian intellectual property
Well China has J-11 and J-16. Perhaps we can get an export copy from them.

Then we should make our own twin engine using JF-17 chassis or the J-10 Chassis from China.

We should try to make the Pakistani military as strong as possible.

But we need to improve our economy and education first.
 
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Well China has J-11 and J-16. Perhaps we can get an export copy from them.

Then we should make our own twin engine using JF-17 chassis or the J-10 Chassis from China.

We should try to make the Pakistani military as strong as possible.

But we need to improve our economy and education first.
I already told you China can't export J11/J-16 without Russian permission because the design is same as Su-27/Su-30MKK AND MKK2 only avionics wise they are different from Su-27/30MKK AND MKK2

And we have minimal to no aviation industries and R&D institutions to build twin engine version of J10 and also it's takes lots of time to do R&D flight testing to complete the project ( 25-30) years to complete the project

It's much easier to induct J10C in large numbers and if possible convince China to build parts of J10 locally, and mature our aviation and R&D industries step by step

Their is not a short cut in aviation fields
 
I already told you China can't export J11/J-16 without Russian permission because the design is same as Su-27/Su-30MKK AND MKK2 only avionics wise they are different from Su-27/30MKK AND MKK2

And we have minimal to no aviation industries and R&D institutions to build twin engine version of J10 and also it's takes lots of time to do R&D flight testing to complete the project ( 25-30) years to complete the project

It's much easier to induct J10C in large numbers and if possible convince China to build parts of J10 locally, and mature our aviation and R&D industries step by step

Their is not a short cut in aviation fields
Okay, I get the part where China cannot export the J-11/J-16 variants. I understand that.

But perhaps we can do a joint venture with China to make a twin engine JF-17 or J-10C with their help.

True, we should induct J-10Cs in large numbers and get spare parts from China's manufacturing industries.

Yes you are right there are no short cuts in aviation field.

Yes our aviation industry R&D needs to mature first before doing any big projects.
 
Okay, I get the part where China cannot export the J-11/J-16 variants. I understand that.

But perhaps we can do a joint venture with China to make a twin engine JF-17 or J-10C with their help.

True, we should induct J-10Cs in large numbers and get spare parts from China's manufacturing industries.

Yes you are right there are no short cuts in aviation field.

Yes our aviation industry R&D needs to mature first before doing any big projects.
Somehow we already working similar project named PFX we getting help for 2 countries for PFX Turkey (for avionics/electronics) China (airframe/aerodynamics)
 
J10 is remarkable plane. Great achievement by China.
Most importantly, set up a whole new modern production plant with a bunch of young engineers, without J-10, we wouldn't be where we are today, we would have stuck with Su-27 variants for who know how long.
 
Well China has J-11 and J-16. Perhaps we can get an export copy from them.
In 2008, Russia and China signed an Agreement on the Protection of Intellectual Property Rights.
China explicitly committed itself to “not exporting the Chinese Flanker series of fighter jets.”

Then we should make our own twin engine using JF-17 chassis or the J-10 Chassis from China.
What is clear is that Pakistan does not have the capability to develop fighter jets on its own. Nor does it have sufficient reverse engineering capability. It is impossible for Pakistan to independently develop a new twin-engine fighter based on the JF-17 or J-10 without Chinese help.

Now, these two fighters (JF-17B3/J-10C) have basically reached its limit. Subsequently, minor updates to them are sure to continue, but large-scale upgrades are no longer likely.

JF-17 B3
With two medium thrust engines, the JF-17 would be upgraded from a light to a medium fighter. Its entire aerodynamic profile would have to be completely redesigned, and then it would necessarily add stealth aerodynamic profile design elements.
So what is the difference between such a fighter and the J-35? Why are we spending a lot of research money on a duplicate program?
If it's based on cost considerations, why don't we just use the J-35 foreign trade version for subtraction?

J-10C.
AVIC's main efforts are now focused on the 5th/6th-Gen fighter field.
There are some Chinese military fans who think that the only future upgrade for the J-10C might be to replace the engine with the WS-15.
But I think this is highly unlikely.
The design of the J-10 series fighter is very special. Its engine compartment is different from the design of the engine compartment of other Chinese fighters. ------ The AL-31 engine used in the early J-10 is a special customized version which is not common with the AL-31 engine used in the Chinese Flanker series. The WS-10B engine used in the later J-10 is also a J-10C-specific version.
This means that if it replaces the WS-15 engine in the future, it will also have to have a separate special customized version of the WS-15 made for it. this obviously doesn't make much sense.
Of course, if a big foreign customer is willing to pay for it's big version upgrade R&D separately, or, if it procures the new version of the J-10 in a big batch (>100 units) at a time, CAC would surely be more than happy to do so.

Theoretically, China would not deny Pakistan an assembly line for the J-10CE.
But......
The investment cost of the Advanced Pulse production line is very high. If the final capacity is less than 200 J-10CEs, it will incur huge losses.
The investment cost of a conventional manual assembly line is lower. However, it has high production costs, very low annual production capacity, and inconsistent production quality (heavily dependent on worker competence).
So it is very uneconomical for Pakistan to set up a J-10CE assembly line on its own. Moreover, Pakistan does not have enough money.
This analysis, too, applies to the argument that some of our Pakistani friends want a J-35 assembly line.

Currently, Pakistan's priority should be the complete absorption of JF-17 technology.

We should try to make the Pakistani military as strong as possible.
But we need to improve our economy and education first.
That's the point.
 
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I already told you China can't export J11/J-16 without Russian permission because the design is same as Su-27/Su-30MKK AND MKK2 only avionics wise they are different from Su-27/30MKK AND MKK2

And we have minimal to no aviation industries and R&D institutions to build twin engine version of J10 and also it's takes lots of time to do R&D flight testing to complete the project ( 25-30) years to complete the project

It's much easier to induct J10C in large numbers and if possible convince China to build parts of J10 locally, and mature our aviation and R&D industries step by step

Their is not a short cut in aviation fields
Lease the ac
 
In the next five years, Pakistan must transition to all fifth-generation production and focus on the next generation. Within the next 10 to 15 years, I see the PAF flying the J36. Having China as a friend is a blessing; the sooner the elite in Pakistan realizes this, the better. This doesn’t mean abandoning the USA, KSA, and Turkey, but rather maintaining a balance. Therefore, the J10C, JF-17 Block 3, and Block 4 will be the last of any older generation jet fighters that the PAF will pursue. If I am alive in the next 10 years, I would like to be discussing the J35A, the Pakistani KAAN produced in Pakistan, and the PAF getting ready for the J36 to be inducted in small batches over the next few years. If I am not alive, then my message to all young Pakistanis is to keep their focus on education, technology, Pakistani ideology and social justice in Pakistan and around the world.
 
What is options of twin engine jets for PAF ? F15 impossible, EU-2000 super-expensive, J11/
What is options of twin engine jets for PAF ? F15 impossible, EU-2000 super-expensive, J11/J16 IMPOSSIBLE because designs are Russian intellectual property

I already told you China can't export J11/J-16 without Russian permission because the design is same as Su-27/Su-30MKK AND MKK2 only avionics wise they are different from Su-27/30MKK AND MKK2

And we have minimal to no aviation industries and R&D institutions to build twin engine version of J10 and also it's takes lots of time to do R&D flight testing to complete the project ( 25-30) years to complete the project

It's much easier to induct J10C in large numbers and if possible convince China to build parts of J10 locally, and mature our aviation and R&D industries step by step

Their is not a short cut in aviation fields


L15 :ROFLMAO: ;)
 
Okay, I get the part where China cannot export the J-11/J-16 variants. I understand that.

But perhaps we can do a joint venture with China to make a twin engine JF-17 or J-10C with their help.

True, we should induct J-10Cs in large numbers and get spare parts from China's manufacturing industries.

Yes you are right there are no short cuts in aviation field.

Yes our aviation industry R&D needs to mature first before doing any big projects.


Not again this nonsense ... building an aircraft is not an easy what-if modelling where you just cut something in pieces and paste & clue it together!

Therefore, no need to repeat this nonsensical discussion again.
 
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