Beijingwalker
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Did China prod Pakistan into attacking India? I also hope the conflict could end ASAP, but it's India that initiated the attack.
Global militaries to study India-Pakistan fighter jet battle
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Beijingwalker
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‘Dogfight’: How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian jets in mass air battle
By Memphis BarkerMay 9, 2025
In the early hours of Wednesday, China’s ambassador to Pakistan hurried to the foreign ministry to celebrate an unprecedented military success.
Pakistan had reportedly shot down several Indian aircraft in the hours before using Chinese J-10C fighter jets.
Air battles this week reportedly involved Pakistan’s Chinese-made J-10 aircraft.Credit:Getty Images/Stocktrek Images
“Our jet fighters … shot down three Indian Rafales, three Rafales [that] are French,” Pakistani Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar told parliament. “Ours were J-10C.”
The Chinese delegation, roused from their sleep by the outbreak of conflict between two nuclear-armed nations, was thrilled with the success of the Pakistani defence, Dar said.
“Being a friendly nation, they expressed great happiness.”
India has not officially responded to reports that it lost as many as five fighters in the battle, which a Pakistani security source quoted by CNN described as a “dogfight” involving more than 100 aircraft.
But the apparent involvement of Chinese-made aircraft in shooting down a Rafale has ricocheted through defence circles – and sent stock in its maker, Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, surging by as much as 20 per cent.
Until now, Chinese weaponry had not been field-tested against Western-made systems like the Rafale. The Indian Air Force (IAF) operates a fleet of 36 Rafale F3Rs, the most advanced model of the aircraft.
A French intelligence source confirmed to CNN on Wednesday that at least one had been shot down, marking the first time a Rafale had been lost during combat.
In an official statement, China’s Foreign Ministry said it was “not familiar with the matter” when asked whether Chinese jets were involved in the skirmish.
India’s Rafales reportedly came off second best in a face-off with Pakistan this week.Credit:Bloomberg
Later on Thursday evening, a US official told Reuters that there was “high confidence” that a J-10C had shot down two Indian fighters, using air-to-air missiles.
That appeared to confirm the aircraft’s first known “kill”, having entered service in its earliest form in 2003. It has been described as a “4.5 generation fighter”, like the British Eurofighter Typhoons and almost at the level of fifth generation systems like the US-made F-35.
Taiwan should be ‘even more scared’
Hu Xijin, the former editor of the Chinese state-owned Global Times, said the battle showed that “China’s level of military manufacturing has completely surpassed that of Russia and France”, adding that Taiwan should feel “even more scared”.Defence analysts remain cautious of reading too much into the technological battle between the two systems. Pilot error, or the rules of engagement, could have contributed to the Indian Rafale’s demise.
But open-source intelligence analysts are poring over images of the wreckage of a Chinese-made PL-15 missile, broadcast on Indian television and shared on social media.
The missile, which is carried by the J-10C, has never been used in combat before. But its ability to hit targets far beyond the visual range of pilots appears to fit with the outlines of the clash on Wednesday morning.
Neither Pakistani nor Indian aircraft crossed the border, engaging instead in a “stand-off” conflict at a distance of more than 100 kilometres at times. The wreckage of a Rafale was discovered near the city of Bathinda deep inside India, according to multiple open-source analysts.
China’s development of the PL-15 prompted the US military to invest in a missile specifically designed to outrange it.
A “very capable missile” – China’s PL-15E is seen on display.Credit:X
The PL-15E, the version exported to the Pakistani armed forces, can travel up to 145 kilometres, somewhat less far than the domestic equivalent.
Chinese military observers have long viewed it as a “very capable missile”, said Fabian Hoffmann, a missile technology researcher and non-resident fellow of the Centre for European Policy Analysis.
“But obviously [if a hit is confirmed] this is now a very public demonstration of the prowess of Chinese military aerospace technologies” that “carries outside the bubble”.
“This is another point of indication that, if there was a Taiwan conflict, you probably should not assume that Chinese technology would fail at the same rate as Russia’s during the war in Ukraine.”
On April 29, with cross-border tensions rising, Pakistan’s army published a YouTube video showcasing its military arsenal.
In the video, a Chinese-made JF-17 Block 3 fighter jet, less advanced than the J-10C, can be seen equipped with PL-15 missiles. The combination offers “potent punch”, a caption reads.
For pilots in the Pakistani Air Force, the PL-15 missile has several advantages. Once fired, it has a large rocket booster that briefly propels the projectile to above Mach 5, or hypersonic, speeds.
A dual-pulse motor means that, after the initial blast falls away, a second burst of speed can be generated within 10 or so kilometres from the target.
“Because they are very, very fast, they basically have what you call a ‘no-escape zone’,” Mr Hoffmann said.
Beijing ‘delivers’
When India and Pakistan clash, so do their military backers. In recent years, the two nations have rapidly diverged in terms of where they source their weaponry, and Islamabad now buys the vast majority of its arms from China.
Unidentified aircraft debris lies on the ground near a mosque in Indian-controlled Kashmir.Credit:AP
Some 82 per cent of imports between 2019 and 2023 came from its “iron brother”, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), which tracks global arms flows. Imports from the US, meanwhile, have collapsed.
At the same time, Delhi has stepped up arms purchases from Western allies and reduced its reliance on Russia. Since 2006, purchases from France, Israel and the US have surged. Imports from Moscow have fallen from 75 per cent of the total to 36 per cent, according to SIPRI.
“The big advantage the Pakistanis have is that their primary weapon supplier is China,” said Dr Walter Ladwig, an associate fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, a London-based think tank.
“The Indian defence budget is bigger on paper, the modernisation budget is bigger.”
But Beijing “delivers”. It has rapidly supplied Pakistan with armour, a jointly developed fighter jet (in the form of the JF-17 Block 3), and missile systems.
For various reasons, India’s main suppliers, Russia and France (who provide 36 per cent and 33 per cent of imports respectively) have been slower to fulfil their orders, said Dr Ladwig.
India’s Air Force is “still operating these antiquated MiGs”, he added.
China’s Foreign Ministry has urged both sides to exercise restraint and avoid a full-scale war. But there will be some in Beijing hoping for further, explosive field tests.
‘Dogfight’: How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian jets in mass air battle
Pakistan’s apparent success in destroying Indian warplanes this week is a graphic demonstration of Chinese air power. It has sparked interest – and alarm – in the West.
The news we have about Rafale, it's looks a true information that the J10 might have first humiliated and then shot down RafaleWhy Did the J-10C Dominate the Rafale?
This Aerial Showdown Revealed the True Power of Chinese Fighter Jets
In the early hours of yesterday, a sudden aerial clash shocked the world: the Pakistani Air Force achieved an overwhelming 6:0 victory, shooting down multiple Indian fighter jets, including Rafales, Su-30s, and MiG-29s. Even more striking was the fact that this victory marked the first real...www.china-arms.com
Air superiority characteristics of Rafale is well below to Mig29k standard. Rafale is good on A2G operations within Indian territory...... Going on international border was all about this news
ety
Trusted Member
Why you typical Vietnamese blame the war on China simply because Pakistan used Chinese made weapons ? China didn't cause the war to happen. Blame on India to start the war and bomb civilians without first provide proof that Pakistan state was indeed behind the terrorists attack in Kashmir. PDF is a military forum after all.
We used to discuss during even Kargil was, and those who may enter Indian border is our, those who may enter Pakistani border is yours....
I seriously question about terrorist attack in kashmir, as it's more a domestic issue. As, the international border of indo-pak is full with mines, baroodi surange, and if someone may successfully cross international border to enter india, then it's our issue now....
We praised Pakistan for not supplying even minaral water to militants hiding in Kargil
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Viet
VIP Member
of course not. but this war benefits China. this war will keep India in check.
boring to discuss who fires the first shot. India and Pakistan will wage wars until dinosaurs return.
I doubt Ccp wants this war or next war to end quick. I heard from a chinese poster here on Pdf, China does not bother if the civil war in Burma can continue for 100 or 1,000 years.
Beijingwalker
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Why blaming Myamar's civil war on China? they even bombed China border towns and triggered PLA mobilization on the border.
Artillery shell from Myanmar lands in residential community in China, injuring 5 people
03.01.2024 - Update : 03.01.2024
An artillery shell landed near a residential area, causing injuries to five individuals.
Amidst the smoke and dust, storefront signs were scattered due to the explosion.
A staff member at the Zhenkang County People's Hospital stated that on the same afternoon, around 2:00, five injured people were brought to the hospital for treatment, and all were reported to be out of life-threatening danger.
According to records, Zhenkang County is located on the southwestern border, adjacent to the Kokang Self-Administered Zone of Myanmar, connected by a bridge between the county town and Kokang.
As for the origin of the artillery shell and the extent of casualties, the staff member stated that specific details would have to wait for an official report.
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Beijingwalker
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ety
Trusted Member
That's your Vietnamese pure speculations about China only.
Viet
VIP Member
I don’t blame China. the world is just f.. up. the russians run amok. Trump pursues MAGA. China plays mojo. now I want to see Germany, Japan remilitarise.
by the way there is impact assessment of nuclear war between Pakistan and India.
should it happen then well, good night.
ety
Trusted Member
And you, Germany and Japan will be crushed again. They haven't learned the lesson well from history yet.
Han Patriot
Registered Member
It does have a big impact on reputation of Chinese weapons. A 40MIL$ cheap Chinese J10 shot down a 200mil$ best non stealth jet. And the Paks are confident enough to claim 3 on the 1st day. They brag but not to this level, something insane happened that night.
Viet
VIP Member
I don’t know I am not military expert.
I guess the losses of India aircraft are contributed to poor pilot training, lack of preparation of India army.
also, probably India underestimated Pakistan aerial surveillance. not the quality nor price of aircraft.
Han Patriot
Registered Member
Yes yes, ignore the technology prowess of Chinese weapons. As usual. 5:0 kills, confirmed 4 crashes, the fifth no news report. That's just crazy
