Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

You just said Pakistan and China not releasing satellite images is part of the ceasefire agreement!! When no one has seen the ceasefire agreement, let alone someone like you. How is that not making up bs?! Just because the Indians have banned independent sat image providers, that doesn't stop Pak or China from releasing their own images.

No one on this forum knows why they haven't. It's the same bs about "not wanting to humiliate India", as if the Chinese and Pakistanis have ever given a shit about hurting the feelings of blood Indians!

Like I said, stop making up bs by jumping to conclusions and relating correlation with causation...that's the most simplest of fallacies anyone can make.

re. lengthy crappy lines:
a simple questions, whats stopping indian army/media showing satellite images, instead, there are reports of blocking?!!!!

why shouldnt i question it, that it is not a cease firre term, could you please elaborate it??!!!

keep in mind, there is always 'indepenedent' analyst on the indian channel!

 

[gangsta_rap]

but the street of the Arab world is another and they may exert themselves one day to formulate policies favorable to Pakistan

This won't change until Pakistanis improve their image. On the ground - 'street arabs' in the gulf see Pakistanis and Bangaldeshis as dangerous drug peddlers with their own mafia cliques and instead perceive Indians as hard working and obedient.

 

[Psyko70]

This is partly why I'm getting sick and tired of the PTI

I like I.K, he always did his best for Pakistan and I hope he gets out and lives his life in peace

But the PTI is simply not fit to be anywhere near power in Pakistan, I think the state was right to put it's foot down, these people are dangerous for the country in this form and outside of IK, none of them are trustworthy

We desperately need a new political system, our parties are rubbish with the same faces for decades on end


Democracy isn't right for Pakistan, the politicians are poor, the parties and rubbish and the population are easily led idiots

We need a China type system to bring gradual order and change



Democracy would have destroyed China and allowed it's enemies to control the country and people through lackeys
It's only the one state Chinese system that China was able to achieve what it has

It's the same for Pakistan

Another valid perspective

 

[Psyko70]

I have more of a concern then excitement about round 2. I believe pakistan might have more challenge this time. As enemy knows we can read there comms, jamm, confuse there assets. Next time it could also be us. Hope Pakistan has better plan.

 

[safriz]

I think our side still has not highlighted that India started their attacked with a nuclear capable missile i.e. Brahmos. Pakistan doesnt have means to distinguish a conventional vs nuclear strike and it could have led to our side to go nuclear. India is emboldened by US and the cancer of the world aka Israel and our side should understand that the only solution is to go berserk on India next time they try their shenanigans.

It's just that Pakistan knows full well that India doesn't have warheads small enough for any cruise missiles.

 

[El Sidd]

This is partly why I'm getting sick and tired of the PTI

I like I.K, he always did his best for Pakistan and I hope he gets out and lives his life in peace

But the PTI is simply not fit to be anywhere near power in Pakistan, I think the state was right to put it's foot down, these people are dangerous for the country in this form and outside of IK, none of them are trustworthy

We desperately need a new political system, our parties are rubbish with the same faces for decades on end


Democracy isn't right for Pakistan, the politicians are poor, the parties and rubbish and the population are easily led idiots

We need a China type system to bring gradual order and change



Democracy would have destroyed China and allowed it's enemies to control the country and people through lackeys
It's only the one state Chinese system that China was able to achieve what it has

It's the same for Pakistan

But sarr Moeed speak Inglish and edocated.

 

[El Sidd]

Bolded part. I told the reality as it is. Unless flaws are identified, they can't be addressed. So, yes, credit to be given to the Indian educational system and that should only motivate Pakistan to better its own situation.
As for the 'favoritism' part: The ruling class of the GCC is one thing, but the street of the Arab world is another and they may exert themselves one day to formulate policies favorable to Pakistan; they are Pakistan's natural allies and vice versa. Maybe the Gaza conflict is going to lead to an awareness about who Indians truly are.
As to your Turkey-Pakistan connection vs the Arab world: I don't see any bearing on the Pakistani workforce going to the Arab world.
Bottomline: Pakistan should up its game. No other way but until that game is up, at least start working on making Pakistan the choice for the labor/workers in parts of the world like the Arab world, at least start raising awareness. As someone pointed out above: The Indian labor in GCC is not a permanent presence and they could be--and should be--bumped off.

This is some BS.

Indians do not pose security threats to GCC. We have seen what Pakistanis are capable of be it anywhere in GCC.

Had it not been for Pakistan Army, Pakistanis would have long been sent packing from the Arabian peninsula.

 

[r3alist]

Bolded part. I told the reality as it is. Unless flaws are identified, they can't be addressed. So, yes, credit to be given to the Indian educational system and that should only motivate Pakistan to better its own situation.
As for the 'favoritism' part: The ruling class of the GCC is one thing, but the street of the Arab world is another and they may exert themselves one day to formulate policies favorable to Pakistan; they are Pakistan's natural allies and vice versa. Maybe the Gaza conflict is going to lead to an awareness about who Indians truly are.
As to your Turkey-Pakistan connection vs the Arab world: I don't see any bearing on the Pakistani workforce going to the Arab world.
Bottomline: Pakistan should up its game. No other way but until that game is up, at least start working on making Pakistan the choice for the labor/workers in parts of the world like the Arab world, at least start raising awareness. As someone pointed out above: The Indian labor in GCC is not a permanent presence and they could be--and should be--bumped off.

Sir, it is some stretch to assume that the Arab street may well one day influence the Arab monarchies policies and that manifestation will be automatically favorable to Pakistan because of Gaza, it's worth understanding first of all do the Arabs actually see the way the world you think they do? Their lived experience may well differ


The Arab street, is called the Arab street because fundamentally they will remain away from the corridors of power.


You also have to kind of look at your own messaging in the third person, is it not conceited and almost verging on the obnoxious to tell the Arabs who they should employ? Again, the Arab ruling monarchies absolutely prioritized internal stability over pretty much most things, they have been quite ruthless in clamping down on any Gaza activism, people have been deported.

Yes the Turkish Pakistan strategic relationship does affect the Arab view of Pakistan, you will remember that Imran khan along with turkey and Malaysia made a very controversial and worrying move to form their own Islamic voice, and that irked the Saudis the most


If Pakistan actually starts doing the right things, then they should ultimately develop the right type of workforce that may end up with good probability in the gulf, the emphasis however here should be to satisfy internal economic needs

The Indians, have a culture which is very much valuing the working life of a corporate career, so as much as it is the education, it's also the general aspiration to be the best corporate citizen and worker possible, and that's across a very big population

 

[Corax]

listen dude, i have had enough of your bullshit.


honestly, if you were shown, even zero covariance, you would still call it independent! enough said!!!

And yet, that's exactly what you've done, shown zero covariance!! lol like I said, don't confuse correlation with causation, the mother of all fallacies. It's not me that's making up bullshit about not showing satellite pics as part of a ceasefire agreement that apparently only you have seen!

 

[RescueRanger]

Why bother, when you can totally jam the opponents Radars, Data links, and Comms? spend the money wisely on invisible tech rather than trying to make a tangible object invisible.

Brother,

This is a very complicated subject. One that requires it's on thread if we ignore the grand objective of intercepting missiles and just talk about drones.

Drones operate on the following bandwidth:
Broadly speaking there are two standards globally adopted which facilitate commination between a ground station and a drone. For commerically manufactured drones there are two international standards that apply to drone Rx/Tx modules namely 802.11 on 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz band - 2.4 Ghz supports b/g/n whereas 5 Ghz supports 802.11 a/n/ac and use GPS L1


802.11ac as used in DJI drones operates between 5180 and 5825 Mhz - with 802.11ax over Wi-Fi 6 boith 2.4 and 5 Gz can extend the band range from 5.925 to 7.125 Ghz which offers 1200 Mhz spectrum of bandwidth for greater channel capacity as 802.11 b/g/n is limited to 12 channels with 13/14 reserved for some limited devices operating at 2.488Mhz



These devices are classed in the armature category because whilst Wi-Fi offers great channel capacity 1200 Mhz of spectrum capacity it is limited by range and reliance on (LOS= Line of Sight) normally with a max range of 5Km with a max range of 12 Km.

Within the armature drone market - Some drones offer fall-back on WiMax, 4G and LTE to overcome these issues and extended the communication range beyond LOS.

---

Professional drones or augmented drones will operate on frequencies between 433MHz and 915MHz with military drones operate on 1050MHz to 1250MHz spectrum with some working up to 5800 Mhz spectrum.
Drone Detection: this can be a combination of Radar, RF analysis:

An example of RF analysis to detect drone signatures

There are many ways drones can be countered these include:

1. Jammers [Soft Kill]
2. Cyber-Takeover [Soft Kill]
3. Kinetic [Hard Kill]
4. High-Energy [Hard Kill - Lasers and High Powered Microwave Devices]

The concepts for the most part are relatively the same, the aim is to inject noise reducing the SNR(Signal to Noise Ration) introducing errors which reduce channel capacity and eventually disable the link between the drone and the ground station:


Examples of RF Jamming methodologies include the following:
Noise/Barrage Jamming: Discussed above - wideband noise reduces the Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR), increasing error rates and decreasing channel capacity.

Sweep Jamming: A narrowband signal sweeps across frequencies, simulating the effects of barrage jamming at high sweep rates.

Tone Jamming: Discrete tones target specific frequencies, effective against FHSS signals.

Follower Jamming: Tracks frequency changes in FHSS(Frequency-hopping spread spectrum) systems to jam newly selected frequencies.

Smart Jamming: Selectively targets critical signals in DSSS and FHSS systems.

Note: The enemy can augment RF operated drones by inducing self-interference to avoid external interference from a Chirp Jammer or Multiband Jammer as can be seen in this example below.

Note: The enemy can counter RF interference by adopting fibre optic route to create resilient drones - this process involves removing the RF module and using a spool of fibre optic cable connecting the drone physically to the ground station:

An example of a fibre optic drone used in Ukraine.

Cyber-Takeover​

Cyber-takeover is a way of mitigating a drone by taking over the drone remotely, by impersonating the control station. It is done by hacking into the drone, essentially tricking the drone to switch from the legitimate controller. Cyber-takeover lets the mitigator direct the flight of the drone and access the drone's data and camera.

This is an elegant way to mitigate a drone when it works. Unfortunately the success rate of cyber takeover is low for two reasons, the mitigating controller must be able to predict frequency hopping of drone and must always maintain a more powerful a signal to the drone than the original remote. Additionally, cyber-takeover does not work on a drone swarm.

Kinetic Mitigation Options​

There are many forms of kinetic mitigation options. Kinetic solutions are essentially all options that physically effect the drone from reaching its intended target. These can include everything from missiles, to kamikaze drones, to drones that shoot nets and even specially trained birds of prey. Kinetic mitigation solutions, although mentally satisfying suffer from lower success rates and do not work on drone swarms.

High Energy Mitigation Options​

• ‍Lasers: Lasers are a type of high-energy mitigation and can be used to destroy malicious drones. Lasers are cost efficient as a means of mitigation and effective over long distances. They can also affect drones that are hardened against jamming, including drones that operate without radio signal direction, or are autonomously programmed. They can be mounted on vehicles or aircraft and do not require a lot of setup time. They also have little effect on human beings or other objects, making them safe to use in populated areas. Drawbacks include being affected by adverse weather and other line of site factors.
• ‍High Power Microwave (HPM) Devices: High-power microwave devices use high power electromagnetic energy to stop drones. The counter-UAS system emits an intense microwave beam that is so powerful it can destroy a small drone within seconds. The counter-UAS system uses high power microwaves to disable or destroy nearby drones. The device emits an intense beam of energy which can quickly destroy un crewed aircraft. It can mitigate either individual drones or even swarms of autonomous drones because the wide beam that destroys the drone's hardware over a wide area. HPM devices are a high cost/high impact technology and are traditionally more available to the military.

To conclude: A successful counter UAS shield MUST include multi-sensor fusion, C2, rapidly mobile deployable and static systems to include a full suite of Radar/RF signal detection, Multiband Jamming, Cyber, Kinetic and High Energy options on the battle field.

 

[Meengla]

Democracy isn't right for Pakistan, the politicians are poor, the parties and rubbish and the population are easily led idiots
We need a China type system to bring gradual order and change
Democracy would have destroyed China and allowed it's enemies to control the country and people through lackeysIt's only the one state Chinese system that China was able to achieve what it has
It's the same for Pakistan

Good post!
And one thing people don't understand fully: The bailing out of Pakistan by the rich GCC Arabs and even by the Chinese is near exhaustion and thus we have this brutal 'hybrid' form of government where the focus is on reviving the economy. People don't know how close Pakistan was to a financial 'default' barely 2-3 years ago with all its consequences. But then the expat Pakistanis, especially in the richer Western countries, were in their La La Land of Nero Playing the Flute while the Rome would burn.
The path forward is clear in my head: A stable system for at least next 15-20 years with focus on reviving the economy. Pakistan is not like one more of the dozens of poor, corrupt countries of the world: Pakistan has been facing a real powerful, mortal enemy for decades and we have just seen what that enemy is capable of and intends to do. There is no room for complacency left. The begging bowl is being broken but not by Pakistan but by Pakistan's erstwhile benefactors themselves now.

 

[Corax]

re. lengthy crappy lines:
a simple questions, whats stopping indian army/media showing satellite images, instead, there are reports of blocking?!!!!

why shouldnt i question it, that it is not a cease firre term, could you please elaborate it??!!!

keep in mind, there is always 'indepenedent' analyst on the indian channel!

So you've seen the ceasefire agreement have you?! Like I said before, just because India has blocked independent satellite image companies, that doesn't stop Pak and China from releasing their own images. But apparently you've seen the ceasefire agreement, so only you would know.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Brother,

This is a very complicated subject. One that requires it's on thread if we ignore the grand objective of intercepting missiles and just talk about drones.

Drones operate on the following bandwidth:
Broadly speaking there are two standards globally adopted which facilitate commination between a ground station and a drone. For commerically manufactured drones there are two international standards that apply to drone Rx/Tx modules namely 802.11 on 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz band - 2.4 Ghz supports b/g/n whereas 5 Ghz supports 802.11 a/n/ac and use GPS L1
View attachment 121849

802.11ac as used in DJI drones operates between 5180 and 5825 Mhz - with 802.11ax over Wi-Fi 6 boith 2.4 and 5 Gz can extend the band range from 5.925 to 7.125 Ghz which offers 1200 Mhz spectrum of bandwidth for greater channel capacity as 802.11 b/g/n is limited to 12 channels with 13/14 reserved for some limited devices operating at 2.488Mhz

View attachment 121848

These devices are classed in the armature category because whilst Wi-Fi offers great channel capacity 1200 Mhz of spectrum capacity it is limited by range and reliance on (LOS= Line of Sight) normally with a max range of 5Km with a max range of 12 Km.

Within the armature drone market - Some drones offer fall-back on WiMax, 4G and LTE to overcome these issues and extended the communication range beyond LOS.

---

Professional drones or augmented drones will operate on frequencies between 433MHz and 915MHz with military drones operate on 1050MHz to 1250MHz spectrum with some working up to 5800 Mhz spectrum.
Drone Detection: this can be a combination of Radar, RF analysis:
View attachment 121853
An example of RF analysis to detect drone signatures

There are many ways drones can be countered these include:

1. Jammers [Soft Kill]
2. Cyber-Takeover [Soft Kill]
3. Kinetic [Hard Kill]
4. High-Energy [Hard Kill - Lasers and High Powered Microwave Devices]

The concepts for the most part are relatively the same, the aim is to inject noise reducing the SNR(Signal to Noise Ration) introducing errors which reduce channel capacity and eventually disable the link between the drone and the ground station:
View attachment 121851

Examples of RF Jamming methodologies include the following:
Noise/Barrage Jamming: Discussed above - wideband noise reduces the Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR), increasing error rates and decreasing channel capacity.

Sweep Jamming: A narrowband signal sweeps across frequencies, simulating the effects of barrage jamming at high sweep rates.

Tone Jamming: Discrete tones target specific frequencies, effective against FHSS signals.

Follower Jamming: Tracks frequency changes in FHSS(Frequency-hopping spread spectrum) systems to jam newly selected frequencies.

Smart Jamming: Selectively targets critical signals in DSSS and FHSS systems.

Note: The enemy can augment RF operated drones by inducing self-interference to avoid external interference from a Chirp Jammer or Multiband Jammer as can be seen in this example below.
View attachment 121855
Note: The enemy can counter RF interference by adopting fibre optic route to create resilient drones - this process involves removing the RF module and using a spool of fibre optic cable connecting the drone physically to the ground station:
View attachment 121854
An example of a fibre optic drone used in Ukraine.

Cyber-Takeover​

Cyber-takeover is a way of mitigating a drone by taking over the drone remotely, by impersonating the control station. It is done by hacking into the drone, essentially tricking the drone to switch from the legitimate controller. Cyber-takeover lets the mitigator direct the flight of the drone and access the drone's data and camera.

This is an elegant way to mitigate a drone when it works. Unfortunately the success rate of cyber takeover is low for two reasons, the mitigating controller must be able to predict frequency hopping of drone and must always maintain a more powerful a signal to the drone than the original remote. Additionally, cyber-takeover does not work on a drone swarm.

Kinetic Mitigation Options​

There are many forms of kinetic mitigation options. Kinetic solutions are essentially all options that physically effect the drone from reaching its intended target. These can include everything from missiles, to kamikaze drones, to drones that shoot nets and even specially trained birds of prey. Kinetic mitigation solutions, although mentally satisfying suffer from lower success rates and do not work on drone swarms.

High Energy Mitigation Options​

• ‍Lasers: Lasers are a type of high-energy mitigation and can be used to destroy malicious drones. Lasers are cost efficient as a means of mitigation and effective over long distances. They can also affect drones that are hardened against jamming, including drones that operate without radio signal direction, or are autonomously programmed. They can be mounted on vehicles or aircraft and do not require a lot of setup time. They also have little effect on human beings or other objects, making them safe to use in populated areas. Drawbacks include being affected by adverse weather and other line of site factors.
• ‍High Power Microwave (HPM) Devices: High-power microwave devices use high power electromagnetic energy to stop drones. The counter-UAS system emits an intense microwave beam that is so powerful it can destroy a small drone within seconds. The counter-UAS system uses high power microwaves to disable or destroy nearby drones. The device emits an intense beam of energy which can quickly destroy un crewed aircraft. It can mitigate either individual drones or even swarms of autonomous drones because the wide beam that destroys the drone's hardware over a wide area. HPM devices are a high cost/high impact technology and are traditionally more available to the military.

To conclude: A successful counter UAS shield MUST include multi-sensor fusion, C2, rapidly mobile deployable and static systems to include a full suite of Radar/RF signal detection, Multiband Jamming, Cyber, Kinetic and High Energy options on the battle field.

As per sources China already developed and would be available to Pakistan magnetic field killers system which scan one time the sky and kill electronically small to medium enemy drones.

 

[r3alist]

Great piece for those Indian members still in denial mode.

The legendary Keith

If you would ever want to go down a rabbit hole just try understanding his Twitter posts

 

[RescueRanger]

As per sources China already developed and would be available to Pakistan magnetic field killers system which scan one time the sky and kill electronically small to medium enemy drones.

Yes, we have many goodies on the way - not pertinent to discuss here. But rest assured this is one gap we can easily fill.