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Vietnam war: The first war the US lost
- Thread starter Yommie
- Start date
LeGenD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Operation Apache Snow
Landscape = Mountainous
Year = 1969
Outcome = American battlefield victory
Vietcong attempted to overrun different sectors of then South Vietnam including Hue in Tet Offensive in 1968 but these attacks were repulsed. The US-led forces took another step to defeat Vietcong in A Shau Valley near Hue in 1969.
Operation Apache Snow was the result of a renewed Free World effort in early 1969 to neutralize the North Vietnamese forces in the A Shau, a 45km-long valley located in the southwestern Thua Thien Province. This area had long provided an infiltration corridor for Communist forces from the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos to the coastal cities of northern I Corps Tactical Zone.
The ensuing battle to take Ap Bia Mountain, which became known as Hamburger Hill, lasted for ten days. Although US and South Vietnamese forces were ultimately successful in taking the hill, the heavy Free World casualties incurred in the bitter fighting caused a furor in Congress, with many congressmen denouncing the action.
----
Success on the battlefield is very likely to come at a cost but lack of political support is a road to nowhere. The US-led forces secured A Shau Valley during Operation Apache Snow but abandoned it due to unappreciative political climate back home.
Landscape = Mountainous
Year = 1969
Outcome = American battlefield victory
Vietcong attempted to overrun different sectors of then South Vietnam including Hue in Tet Offensive in 1968 but these attacks were repulsed. The US-led forces took another step to defeat Vietcong in A Shau Valley near Hue in 1969.
Operation Apache Snow was the result of a renewed Free World effort in early 1969 to neutralize the North Vietnamese forces in the A Shau, a 45km-long valley located in the southwestern Thua Thien Province. This area had long provided an infiltration corridor for Communist forces from the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Laos to the coastal cities of northern I Corps Tactical Zone.
The ensuing battle to take Ap Bia Mountain, which became known as Hamburger Hill, lasted for ten days. Although US and South Vietnamese forces were ultimately successful in taking the hill, the heavy Free World casualties incurred in the bitter fighting caused a furor in Congress, with many congressmen denouncing the action.
----
Success on the battlefield is very likely to come at a cost but lack of political support is a road to nowhere. The US-led forces secured A Shau Valley during Operation Apache Snow but abandoned it due to unappreciative political climate back home.
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Mig21s were the most sold aircraft of its time. It was "fly low" aircraft like Chinese aircrafts till 1990. As compared to "fly high" aircrafts of India and Pakistan like F16 & Mig29, till 1990.
@MH.Yang
Worth informing, the "fly high" aircrafts have been found mostly 'bluffs' during wars....
Mig21s like "fly low" aircrafts have been found very worth in wars. They have been mostly winners
American tanks knew Vietnam war was not winnable. All those tanks might be 'buried' on that non-religious land of Vietnam
Hamartia Antidote
Elite Member
Mig21s were the most sold aircraft of its time. It was "fly low" aircraft like Chinese aircrafts till 1990. As compared to "fly high" aircrafts of India and Pakistan like F16 & Mig29, till 1990.
@MH.Yang
Worth informing, the "fly high" aircrafts have been found mostly 'bluffs' during wars....
Mig21s like "fly low" aircrafts have been found very worth in wars. They have been mostly winners
That's because many countries had "fly high" aircraft with "dumb" weapons.
Dropping hundreds of bombs in the general area of a bridge from some crazy height only wasted most of them. You'd be lucky if one scored a really good hit.
Only when smart weapons came on the scene did the fly high stuff become more bang-for-the-buck.
LeGenD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Operation Linebacker
Landscape = Varied across North Vietnam and South Vietnam
Year = 1972
Outcome = American battlefield victory
President Johnson wanted to preserve South Vietnam but failed to sell his agenda to the American Public. President Nixon ordered US-led forces to withdraw from A Shau Valley in 1969. President Nixon wanted to bring American troops home and considered phased withdrawal from South Vietnam. After the FAILURE of the Vietcong's Tet Offensive in 1968, Vietcong prepared for another offensive in 1972 that is identified as the Nguyen Hue Campaign or the Easter Offensive. Vietcong assumed that the American capacity to fight the war is waning and it might be possible to overwhelm South Vietnam this round. However, the US responded with a series of operations identified as Operation Linebacker and Operation Linebacker II with more accurate munitions to defeat Vietcong.
Link
General information in here. Details in here.
Large-scale battles also took place on the ground inside South Vietnam during Operation Linebacker in 1972:
The North Vietnamese launch the Nguyen Hue Campaign, also known as the Easter Offensive, with a multipronged attack across the DMZ and the Laotian and Cambodian borders into multiple regions of South Vietnam. The attacking forces are well equipped: armed with new weapons, heavy artillery, and tanks from the Soviet Union and China. It is the largest offensive launched by the North Vietnamese Army in the war. There are fewer than 70,000 U.S. troops left in Vietnam.
U.S. military advisers play a crucial role rallying South Vietnamese units in retreat. After suffering heavy losses, the South Vietnamese army—with ample help from U.S. air support—slows and reverses the offensive by the end of the summer. They stabilize the front in Quang Tri Province and successfully hold out against attacks around Hue, Kontum, and Saigon.
The North Vietnamese lose much of their armor and equipment and as many as 100,000 troops. South Vietnamese casualties are approximately 43,000, including 10,000 killed. The Easter Offensive also results in the deaths of about 25,000 Vietnamese civilians and leaves almost one million homeless.
Link
More information in following links:
1972 - Operation Linebacker I
www.historynet.com
www.usni.org
Vietcong considered ceasefire and negotiations with the US consequently. These talks are identified as Paris Peace Talks.
----
Soviet Union and China transformed Vietcong into a well-armed fighting force and Vietcong showed impressive resolve to fight in war. The US-led forces could not apply combined arms tactics in different sectors of North Vietnam due to regional topography composed of mountains, marches and dense forests in large part. Vietcong also created underground infrastructure and setup traps in different locations to make it even more difficult and costly for American troops to advance inside North Vietnam. The US-led forces used Air Power to attack Vietcong positions across the region but its impact varied as WW2 era bombs were found to be largely ineffective in Vietnamese topography. These findings sparked a shift towards development of precision munitions which produced much better effects in Operation Linebacker II as noted above. The infrastructure that could withstand WW2 era bombs was taken out in minutes. However, President Nixon did not change his mind regarding withdrawal of American troops from South Vietnam.
The US-led forces managed to fight and defeat Vietcong in large-scale battles even in less favorable conditions but American political will to fight the war eroded due to mounting losses and anti-war activism back home. Vietcong took 3 years to recover from the blows received during Operation Linebacker and Operation Linebacker II and overwhelmed South Vietnam in its next offensive in 1975 when South Vietnam was abandoned and left to its own devices. However, Ho Chi Minh's unification drive came at a great cost to the region in terms of lives lost and environmental degradation. Millions of people lost their lives in this armed struggle that serves as a reminder of the horrors of war and raises a question mark on policymaking and value placed on the lives of the people by some leaders.
theintercept.com
Landscape = Varied across North Vietnam and South Vietnam
Year = 1972
Outcome = American battlefield victory
President Johnson wanted to preserve South Vietnam but failed to sell his agenda to the American Public. President Nixon ordered US-led forces to withdraw from A Shau Valley in 1969. President Nixon wanted to bring American troops home and considered phased withdrawal from South Vietnam. After the FAILURE of the Vietcong's Tet Offensive in 1968, Vietcong prepared for another offensive in 1972 that is identified as the Nguyen Hue Campaign or the Easter Offensive. Vietcong assumed that the American capacity to fight the war is waning and it might be possible to overwhelm South Vietnam this round. However, the US responded with a series of operations identified as Operation Linebacker and Operation Linebacker II with more accurate munitions to defeat Vietcong.
Link
General information in here. Details in here.
Large-scale battles also took place on the ground inside South Vietnam during Operation Linebacker in 1972:
The North Vietnamese launch the Nguyen Hue Campaign, also known as the Easter Offensive, with a multipronged attack across the DMZ and the Laotian and Cambodian borders into multiple regions of South Vietnam. The attacking forces are well equipped: armed with new weapons, heavy artillery, and tanks from the Soviet Union and China. It is the largest offensive launched by the North Vietnamese Army in the war. There are fewer than 70,000 U.S. troops left in Vietnam.
U.S. military advisers play a crucial role rallying South Vietnamese units in retreat. After suffering heavy losses, the South Vietnamese army—with ample help from U.S. air support—slows and reverses the offensive by the end of the summer. They stabilize the front in Quang Tri Province and successfully hold out against attacks around Hue, Kontum, and Saigon.
The North Vietnamese lose much of their armor and equipment and as many as 100,000 troops. South Vietnamese casualties are approximately 43,000, including 10,000 killed. The Easter Offensive also results in the deaths of about 25,000 Vietnamese civilians and leaves almost one million homeless.
Link
More information in following links:
1972 - Operation Linebacker I
How the 1972 North Vietnamese Easter Offensive Tested Nixon’s War Strategy
A look back on 50th anniversary of the Easter Offensive at how South Vietnamese victory against communist forces became a rationale for complete U.S. withdrawal and Nixon’s “peace with honor.”
www.historynet.com
Operation Linebacker: The Sea-Power Factor
1972 witnessed a full-court press by the U.S. Navy and Air Force, taking the Vietnam fight north of the 20th parallel and driving the North Vietnamese to the bargaining table.
Vietcong considered ceasefire and negotiations with the US consequently. These talks are identified as Paris Peace Talks.
----
Soviet Union and China transformed Vietcong into a well-armed fighting force and Vietcong showed impressive resolve to fight in war. The US-led forces could not apply combined arms tactics in different sectors of North Vietnam due to regional topography composed of mountains, marches and dense forests in large part. Vietcong also created underground infrastructure and setup traps in different locations to make it even more difficult and costly for American troops to advance inside North Vietnam. The US-led forces used Air Power to attack Vietcong positions across the region but its impact varied as WW2 era bombs were found to be largely ineffective in Vietnamese topography. These findings sparked a shift towards development of precision munitions which produced much better effects in Operation Linebacker II as noted above. The infrastructure that could withstand WW2 era bombs was taken out in minutes. However, President Nixon did not change his mind regarding withdrawal of American troops from South Vietnam.
The US-led forces managed to fight and defeat Vietcong in large-scale battles even in less favorable conditions but American political will to fight the war eroded due to mounting losses and anti-war activism back home. Vietcong took 3 years to recover from the blows received during Operation Linebacker and Operation Linebacker II and overwhelmed South Vietnam in its next offensive in 1975 when South Vietnam was abandoned and left to its own devices. However, Ho Chi Minh's unification drive came at a great cost to the region in terms of lives lost and environmental degradation. Millions of people lost their lives in this armed struggle that serves as a reminder of the horrors of war and raises a question mark on policymaking and value placed on the lives of the people by some leaders.
The Vietnam War Is Still Killing People, 50 Years Later
Unexploded U.S. shells killed four people in February alone, after the Trump administration cut funding to demining efforts.
theintercept.com
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