JH-7 as a Missile Hauler Repurposing MastanKhans idea

[Khanivore]

This might be silly but what do you think of ground-based mobile launchers of PL-15/PL-17/PL-21 that are inter-linked with air force's J-10s/JF-17s/AWACS and - if need be - ground radars?
@MastanKhan

 

[Rebirth]

Na, from layered enemy AESA air defenses chances of even STEALTH UCAVs are slim to survive

Nope no air defence will be able to see Stealth UCAVs if 80s B-2 can hide then current UCAVs will hide better, also they will deploy Standoff munitions, Cruise Missiles like SOM-J etc. to stay in safe place in highly contested environment.

Initially Anka Stealth UCAVs are coming to Pakistan.

 

[FuturePAF]

Its not about heavy loads any more in terms of India Pakistan, stealth UCAVs with Standoff munitions will be more deadly, safer and cost effective solution, while systems like Fateh-1,2 & 3 will also be used with cheap loitering munitions.

Distributed lethality. Look at how Sweden planned to deal with the Soviet threat (remember they had a nuclear program, and had plans for it as part of their independent defense).
Disbursement and redundancy to ensure continuity and ability to keep fighting the war.

IMHO, We need to study the Swedish strategy. I’ll stop here for fear of going off topic.



Back on topic, a small force (perhaps a dozen) of long range platforms and/or heavy haulers could be useful, but in this day and age it should be modern, data linked, something like the J-16, not the JH-7.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Back on topic, a small force (perhaps a dozen) of long range platforms and/or heavy haulers could be useful, but in this day and age it should be modern, data linked, something like the J-16, not the JH-7.

Maybe after JF-17P is done, this can be the indigenous goal — to build a local heavy strike platform? Around 1 or 2 squadrons can be procured.

Or a very long-term goal to build a 5.5/6th generation platform over a couple decades, since we already have foreign 5th gen platforms to procure, another one wouldn't fit into the structure.

 

[FuturePAF]

Maybe after JF-17P is done, this can be the indigenous goal — to build a local heavy strike platform? Around 1 or 2 squadrons can be procured.

Or a very long-term goal to build a 5.5/6th generation platform over a couple decades, since we already have foreign 5th gen platforms to procure, another one wouldn't fit into the structure.

For the sake of 1-2 squadrons, it would be more cost effective to procure a heavy platform from abroad. In the mean time build a UCAV fleet with different designs for the various missions we know we will face.

If we need to put up 12 BVR missiles, it would be more cost effective to put up 6 relatively cost effective UCAVs with two missiles each than 1 very expensive heavy platform. I look at the MQ-28 Ghost Bat as a decent platform to look towards.

IMHO, a heavy platform fits only in two roles for the PAF, naval support or EW platform, and for both the J-16 is the best candidate. UNLESS, we can get the JH-7 for free and afford to give it a decent upgrade. Even then its large signatures (RCS and IR) will leave it vulnerable to being taken out.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

So no J-35s then until a long while after? Because rumours suggest PAF wants J-35s, if it follows your procurement plan it won't have enough money to also get those.

No funds problems, and J-35A will comes in small batches and 36-72 are enough for PAF and my best guesstimates J-35 will not come before 2028-2030 time-frame and in PAF J-35A will be a tip of a spear (air superiority jet)So we needs DEDICATED long range/heavy striker

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Nope no air defence will be able to see Stealth UCAVs if 80s B-2 can hide then current UCAVs will hide better, also they will deploy Standoff munitions, Cruise Missiles like SOM-J etc. to stay in safe place in highly contested environment.

Initially Anka Stealth UCAVs are coming to Pakistan.

Stealth doesn't means TOTAL INVISIBLITY TO ENEMY SENSORS but STEALTH means LOW OSERVABLE, and anti-stealth tech are booming so much rapidly that you can't rely only (purely) on STEALH to attack or defense,

and Anka will not come before 2033-2035, it is in early phase of developments, first customer will be Turkish air force not PAF

 

[MH.Yang]

Nope no air defence will be able to see Stealth UCAVs if 80s B-2 can hide then current UCAVs will hide better, also they will deploy Standoff munitions, Cruise Missiles like SOM-J etc. to stay in safe place in highly contested environment.

Initially Anka Stealth UCAVs are coming to Pakistan.

The capability of stealth fighters such as the B2 is only effective against small countries such as Iraq Afghanistan Serbia and may not be effective against a country like India.

Stealth fighters are also only capable of shorter detection and warning times, not really capable of complete stealth. It's not the 1990s anymore and there are plenty of ways to target stealth aircraft.

For example, the use of high-resolution optical satellites to detect and warn in advance, through radio telescopes, passive radar, ionospheric reflection detection technology, radio waves, thermal radiation or engine sound and so on to detect and warn in advance. Through the meter wave radar, S-band high-power radar, early warning aircraft and so on to form a multi-angle distributed radar network for detection and locking. The survival rate of stealth fighters is no higher than that of non-stealth fighters.

 

[Goenitz]

I suggest using the booster added (3-5 sec) PL-17 to KJ-500 for this role.

 

[MH.Yang]

Where do you suppose we get the funding from for this?

PAF will likely increase the number of J-10Cs in our inventory and then also get J-35s. Do we have funds for a strike platform? Should PFX shift to becoming a strike platform or UCAV for CCA?

With J-35A and JF-17b3, there is no need for PAF to continue to increase the number of J-10C. J-35A and JF-17b3 can also launch PL-15E and J-16 can fulfill many of the ground attack missions of JF-17b3.

J-35A also doesn't need 40, it only needs to procure 24 and use them only as a pointman to seize air power.

KAAN can stop procurement, the program doesn't really have a point of existence and Turkey's 5G fighter technology is unreliable.

With the savings, 2 squadrons of J-16s and KJ-500s can be procured.

The real value of J-16 is not just in attacking ground targets but that it can launch PL-17s with a range of over 400km.This means it is fully capable of hunting down Indian AWACS aircraft. As long as it can suppress Indian AWACS, the whole of North India will become the PAF's hunting ground.

The J-16's presence is strategic, not tactical, and it is actually more valuable than the 5G fighter.

 

[LeGenD]

The capability of stealth fighters such as the B2 is only effective against small countries such as Iraq Afghanistan Serbia and may not be effective against a country like India.

Stealth fighters are also only capable of shorter detection and warning times, not really capable of complete stealth. It's not the 1990s anymore and there are plenty of ways to target stealth aircraft.

For example, the use of high-resolution optical satellites to detect and warn in advance, through radio telescopes, passive radar, ionospheric reflection detection technology, radio waves, thermal radiation or engine sound and so on to detect and warn in advance. Through the meter wave radar, S-band high-power radar, early warning aircraft and so on to form a multi-angle distributed radar network for detection and locking. The survival rate of stealth fighters is no higher than that of non-stealth fighters.

B-2A have broadband stealth and is difficult to detect even in the EO/IR regime due to its tailless design and deeply buried engines. It proves survivable in virtually any threat environment. Large geography can provide strategic depth but it does not define capability. Iran has spent years putting in place sophisticated radar systems but could not intercept F-35i which is less stealthy than B-2A. Israel is small but its defenses are relatively dense and developed to intercept even low-cost threats such as rockets that can be produced at scale. However, even Israel will not want to be on the receiving end of B-2A in war.

 

[MH.Yang]

In fact, the J-10C is positioned as a defender, while the J-16 is an attacker. The choice of J-10 or J-16 represents PAF's own positioning and strategic needs.

We can't just judge from PAF's own needs. We should recognize that Pakistan still has deficiencies in areas such as missile defense and also lacks strike capability against Indian territory. Pakistan's geopolitics requires more strategic contributions from the PAF, which should not be used only as a defense force, but should be a sharp knife on India's neck and the most important bargaining chip in the hands of Pakistani diplomats.


btw: My personal view on Pakistan's strategic layout is to reach a rapprochement with Iran and Afghanistan, sign a border agreement, and territorial issues such as the Durand Line can be agreed to wait for 50 years before they are resolved. Form a joint cross-border anti-terrorist force of China, Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan to completely eliminate all terrorist organizations in the region. Scale back investment in the navy, order fewer medium and large warships, use land based aviation and missile boats for offshore defense, and form a submarine force as good as the PAF to threaten the entire Indian Ocean. Military spending is tilted in favor of PAF to achieve military balance with India and maintain influence over Kashmir through a superior air force. Focus on investing and developing Pakistan's domestic infrastructure and skill education. Try to de-escalate South Asia and prioritize economic development. Military can only be strong if the country is strong.

 

[LeGenD]

The issue of JH-7 is that it is not highly maneuverable and might not be able to evade missiles in aerial clashes. AWACS can do its job from a distance but JH-7 will be exposed in aerial clashes. The PAF has a fleet of F-16s to bridge BVR gaps and they were used in this capacity in recent clash with the IAF. JH-7 is better suited for ground attack role in current times.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I suggest using the booster added (3-5 sec) PL-17 to KJ-500 for this role.

I believe OP means a ground strike platform.

 

[Goenitz]

I believe OP means a ground strike platform.

yeah.. I know.. he meant JH7 as a missile carrier. I propose that KJ-500 AWACS may carry 2 or 4 heavy PL-17 as a first-seen & first-kill platform. A small booster can enhance the range further.