POST WAR assessment of recent conflict.

[CombatCorner]

Where do people get the 7 times the size narrative from.

Geography wise it's barely over 4 times the size
Population 6 times the size
Gdp 10 times the size
Forex money 50 times the size

So I ask were or what is 7 times the size

Since you are habitually going off the topic to rant about your pennies so let me try and knock some sense back into your skull.
After 1971 war, the IAF has not been able to shoot down a single PAF combat aircraft ..
Now let's see how did PAF repeatedly thrashed IAF in every encounter.
3 IAF aircraft shot down during Kargil conflict
2 During swift retort in 2019
2025 turned out to be crem de la creme where PAF shot down every frontline type in IAF inventory. Now what is the ratio ..I make it 11-0

 

[RafaleSlayer]

During the war, all of pakistan airspace was empty from Civilian Airlines but only about 10 % of Airline traffic was affected on the opposite side.

Economically, pakistan was paralysed from the air whereas 90 % of the opposite side continued to operate as business as usual.

Attacking deeper and every corner of the enemy country would ensure similar paralysis of Civilian air traffic throughout the country ensuring that the Economic pain is felt at each and every corner of the opposite country.

Whatever, happened, Economically pakistan has more to loose unless, in actuality, 10 times more economic pain is inflicted on the enemy, that is felt at each and every corner, 3000 km at the farthest end , is felt.

A mere 200 km no fly zone is not hurting the enemy as the huge depth creates alternatives route that which can easily be activated and used without causing much pain / suffering economically.

Only in economic terms can you hurt the enemy more effectively and they will think 10 times how much economic battering can they take if they do any misadventure.

Toys can be replaced by newer toys but it will only delay the inevitable.

If Pakistan had not unblocked their air management system that 90% airspace on the other side would be filled with planes colliding each other

 

[peagle]

Okay, that all depends on one thing, that you can win a protracted war with India both with and without Chinese help and both directly and indirectly.

If you think this is the case, sure why not, but as I know for a fact, after being an astute student of warfare for at least 2 decades, this is not how I see it, and this is not how the mentor in the think tank sees it, and that's not how most of the military circle sees it.

I can probably go on in a indefinite and try to explain to you why this is not going to be the way it was, but then I probably would just going to be talking in circle. So instead I am just going to say this, if that is what you think, then I am okay with it, I would not comment on this further.

You seem to be a senior member, so I will refrain from laughing, which would have been my natural reaction to the rant I just read.
Sad really.

When a person assumes everything, and continues to answer his own assumptions, furthermore draws conclusions from those self created assumptions. They literary have nothing of substance to add. Negative value. Which I find extremely sad, from someone who appears to be a senior member.

Another thing, rather then rely on assumed titles, which to be frank I couldn't give a damn about. Try presenting your arguments, and having the courage to stand by them if they have value. Better still have the courage to recognise the other, if he/she is presenting a better argument, especially if it contains context and nuance. Which even a child would know is essential part of any serious discussion.

But what would you know, you've already made up your mind, because you're the lord of truth, our God on this heavenly earth.
It's good this discussion ends here, there was nothing in it in the first place. Just hubris and arrogance.

Please keep your titles shiny, lest they rust from lack of use.

 

[Oscar]

I posted about the analysis and official news many days ago.
Unfortunately, it was overwhelmed by the sheer volume of posts.

Post in thread 'POST WAR assessment of recent conflict.'

May 20, 2025

This Indo-Pak air war. Some analysts believe that Pakistan used the legendary “ABC tactics”.

“A” to lock the target; “B” to launch missiles; “C” to guide missiles to attack the target. In Chinese, it's called “A锁B射C导 (A-lock, B-shoot, C-guide)”.

This mode is characterized by the following:
“A": usually a large ground-based air defense radar. It is very large and is capable of detecting and locking on to targets at very long ranges.
“B": usually a fighter carrying a BVR AAM. It is entirely possible for it to be invisible to enemy fighter targets the entire time, and for the enemy to be...

• Michael

• 
• 

China's military has increased integration between its services since its massive military reform in 2016. No longer do any of the military branches fight independently (they have even lost the power to do so).
Now, we have realized that the Air Force, Navy, Army, and Rocket Force, as well as the three special support forces, are fighting together as a whole. Missiles launched from any platform can be controlled and guided by other platforms from other services.
View attachment 123791
PAF has some of this capability. The “ABC tactics” of the India-Pakistan air war was its first operational application.


Pakistan has received military authorization for the Beidou satellite navigation system. You have full access to its military coded system. All weapons systems imported by Pakistan from China, as well as Pakistan's own weapons systems, have Beidou navigation capabilities within them.

However, Beidou is only a satellite navigation system. It cannot replace the functions of other military satellites.


I believe these satellite images are already on the desks of the PAF command.
But releasing them now is not in line with the logic of China's behavior. It will get us into trouble.
Sometime after the incident has subsided, the evidence will be gradually made public.

From what Ive "heard" - the issue is that your side is vary of the rather impressive capabilities of the image satellite coming out.

 

[Oscar]

Lol, that's the whole point of my post, you shouldn't wait until all-out war because by then you would run out of option, you need to "Nip the bud when it's still growing" and what you need to do have to be correspondent to the response.

The above poster already had pointed out the intelligence aspect of the situation, there are much, MUCH more to do, and you need to figure that out if you don't want to end up in an all out war and you need to mobilise your nuclear force.

Not sure if that make sense to you

There is an issue with nipping in the bud -
That requires that you have rational actors looking at a balanced view of their capabilities and are also not completely reliant on a victory message for maintaining their local support.

If you are facing actors who are so convinced of their victory and have no other message to absorb then either you allow them a victory (which is what world powers were asking of Pakistan) and then lose precedent permanently or you try to balance it out in the hope that every phone line with angry "you need to chill" message from all your aid givers can be told "we did the bare minimum".

It is a rock and a hard place which comes from economic dependency and lack of any actually survivability beyond a few weeks without world intervention.

And while there is joy and jubilation - there was serious danger of the spiral out of control because it wasnt a case of escalation ladder leading to all out mobilization and war. It was escalation ladder being climbed in terms of type of weapon employed.

There was serious issue in terms of what was happening in the desert and it was gamed that while potentially Pakistani forces could pre-empt the massive conventional push being prepared it may end up needing a tactical grade system to slow it down.

That is where the problem was - you did not have rational actors on one side looking to truly understand where their plans of "soft invasion" were to end up while the other side was potentially unable to fund an all out deployment.

The saving grace here is the arrogance of one side which had them bumbling and acting dumbfounded on losses leading to a laughing stock of a propaganda effort that no one believes.

But at the end, they also demonstrated their ability to complete saturate and cause immense damage via just standoff and ground based systems while Pakistan is mostly reliant on air bases systems to truly hit centers of gravity.

 

[imadul]

I posted about the analysis and official news many days ago.
Unfortunately, it was overwhelmed by the sheer volume of posts.

Post in thread 'POST WAR assessment of recent conflict.'

May 20, 2025

This Indo-Pak air war. Some analysts believe that Pakistan used the legendary “ABC tactics”.

“A” to lock the target; “B” to launch missiles; “C” to guide missiles to attack the target. In Chinese, it's called “A锁B射C导 (A-lock, B-shoot, C-guide)”.

This mode is characterized by the following:
“A": usually a large ground-based air defense radar. It is very large and is capable of detecting and locking on to targets at very long ranges.
“B": usually a fighter carrying a BVR AAM. It is entirely possible for it to be invisible to enemy fighter targets the entire time, and for the enemy to be...

• Michael

• 
• 

China's military has increased integration between its services since its massive military reform in 2016. No longer do any of the military branches fight independently (they have even lost the power to do so).
Now, we have realized that the Air Force, Navy, Army, and Rocket Force, as well as the three special support forces, are fighting together as a whole. Missiles launched from any platform can be controlled and guided by other platforms from other services.
View attachment 123791
PAF has some of this capability. The “ABC tactics” of the India-Pakistan air war was its first operational application.


Pakistan has received military authorization for the Beidou satellite navigation system. You have full access to its military coded system. All weapons systems imported by Pakistan from China, as well as Pakistan's own weapons systems, have Beidou navigation capabilities within them.

However, Beidou is only a satellite navigation system. It cannot replace the functions of other military satellites.


I believe these satellite images are already on the desks of the PAF command.
But releasing them now is not in line with the logic of China's behavior. It will get us into trouble.
Sometime after the incident has subsided, the evidence will be gradually made public.

Thank you, @Michael
I stand corrected
Beidou is GNSS.

Michael Dahm says,
The kill chain is the same kind the U.S. is attempting to create within and between its services through the Combined Joint All Domain Command and Control (CJADC2) concept.

So is USA CJADC2 epmloys B and C only according to some.reports?
Fighter aim and deploys BVR and AWE&C/AWACS guides to the target?
A,B,C seems more flexible and scalable solution. Both AWACS and ground radar can guide and so a level of redundancy is available.

 

[Parmanu]

One word : Akashteer. Punctured many myths. Including so many on display on this thread.

On a serious note, India and pakistan both are well into drone warfare for attacks but good to see air launched cruise missiles being used by India and Pakistan. Why I say it's good, cause India has an upper hand in cruise missiles compared to pak. And the pak/Turkish/Chinese drones were intercepted by Indian air defence.

In the next episode of this drama, there should be a proper drone/ground launched cruise missiles on all the air bases in Pakistan, a proper SEAD/DEAD attack and then fighters fighting it out. I would love to see that. Let's say 50 brahmos/scalp/hammer per airbase. Then a rudram strike on fixed radar sites. Then the fighters rolling in. I will do it that way next time. Insha Allah TRF and Jaise Muhammad will provide us with ample scopes in the future. Insha Allah.

 

[Brahmos]

Lol, that's the whole point of my post, you shouldn't wait until all-out war because by then you would run out of option, you need to "Nip the bud when it's still growing" and what you need to do have to be correspondent to the response.

The above poster already had pointed out the intelligence aspect of the situation, there are much, MUCH more to do, and you need to figure that out if you don't want to end up in an all out war and you need to mobilise your nuclear force.

Not sure if that make sense to you

India was actually waiting for Pakistan to begin mobilizing its nuclear weapons, because once mobilization starts, it becomes much easier to target them. Pakistan realized this and avoided falling into the trap. That’s why India proceeded with Plan B, which carries a slightly higher risk due to the potential leakage of radioactive material—targeting nuclear storage sites like Kirana Hills and the nuclear command center at Nur Khan Airbase.

 

[RafaleSlayer]

After reading this loooong doooooooom threat, India is indeed doomed.

Mixing, reality, hyperbole, fantasy and daydreaming can really produce an effect unmatched by any drug o

Why are you still talking??

and do you have any idea how big is Australia?? Let me tell you this. Russia has an estimated 1.2 to 1.5 million troop in Ukraine. And Ukraine is 645,000 square kilometers big, Australia is over 7.8 million square kilometers, I am pretty sure China will run out of man and missile before every inch of Australia is touch. A week long strike ain't gonna do shit in Australia.

So yes, LOL.

And jesus, the quality of title poster sure do go down hill from the old forum.

And @X this is how or why I doubt you can pull off what you said you want to achieve, and this is why I have doubt to post my content here. in case you need a reference.

That is a very naive statement, no one needs to kill kangaroos or wild camels or whatever other infestation you have in the wild, talk about your military installations.

 

[Michael]

Michael Dahm says,
The kill chain is the same kind the U.S. is attempting to create within and between its services through the Combined Joint All Domain Command and Control (CJADC2) concept.

So is USA CJADC2 epmloys B and C only according to some.reports?
Fighter aim and deploys BVR and AWE&C/AWACS guides to the target?
A,B,C seems more flexible and scalable solution. Both AWACS and ground radar can guide and so a level of redundancy is available.

I don't speak English well. So, I pay less attention to the original (English) US military analysis materials. I occasionally read some translated material.

As we know, “ABC Tactics” is just an example. Its real purpose is to break down the full range of coordinated combat tactics of the military services.

For example: air defense systems
In PLA formations, PLAGF, PLAAF and PLA Navy all have air defense units and SAMs. it is relatively easy to link them to “ABC tactics” through the technical level (datalink). However, it is the changes in the operational process and operational coordination due to the differences in operational missions between them that are the most difficult part. This involves issues of command processes and command authority. For the military system, this is the core issue.

In China's 2016 military reform, military command authority was brought back to the theater command center. The core reform of “军种主建、战区主战 military branch main construction, theater main war” is the focus. ------ Breaking down the boundaries between the military branches.
For example:
In the event of a war on the China-India border, supreme military command is vested in the Central Military Commission. Tactical command is vested in the PLA Western Theater Combat Command Center. The PLAGF, PLAAF, PLARF and other combat units under the Western Theater and other supporting military units are all under their unified command.
That is to say, all the weapon systems of the fighters, AWACS, SAMs, and other operations in the jurisdiction are all in the same military network through the data chain and under the unified command of the command center. At this point, they no longer distinguish between the military branches.

In the Indo-Pakistani air war, Pakistan's combat weapon systems involved in the “ABC tactics” all belonged to the PAF, which indicates that Pakistan has already realized the technical level of connectivity. However, it is not yet known whether the military branches are connected or not. This involves the military management and command system.

There is so much military terminology that there may be translation problems . Please ignore some translation errors.

From what Ive "heard" - the issue is that your side is vary of the rather impressive capabilities of the image satellite coming out.

I didn't quite get what you meant. Are you referring to the image reconnaissance capabilities of Chinese satellites?

China has never released any technical data on its military reconnaissance satellites.
But, technical data on a large number of Chinese civilian satellites is publicly available. You can absolutely check the information through the public data. Some Chinese civilian satellites are commercially open to the world.

 

[Tomcats]

I'd like to add that we are yet to get images of the BDA of Rafiqui, that airbase was confirmed to have been targeted and also saw some successful interception(s) of Brahmos missile.

 

[Brahmos]

The old concept is, you make them hurt and they won't do it to you. That's a lot easier said than done, the question here is, how you make them hurt.

That's the deterrence factor in this entire thing, putting China and Pakistan nuke aside, what is the factor Pakistan can offer to deter India, I am not making this in a rude kind of way, but it's time for you to take stock and see how you can achieve the way the Ukrainian make Russian hurt in their own invasion. The fact to the matter is, India know China support Pakistan, and Pakistan had nuke, I mean they aren't stupid, but they decided to do this anyway, now either this is one time rouge general doing crazy thing without prior authorisation, that would be easy, but if they knew China support you and you have nuke and they still do that? In Military and Geopolitical term means they don't believe of that deterrence anymore, otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

Military solution is one of the ways to deal with this, but this is not going to be the only way, again, what I said previously would ring true, because if you fight an all-out war, unless you can make sure it end the way you wanted at the time you wanted, if this going on indefinitely, that will ultimately favor India. Now again, how you can make sure that happen, now that's the million-dollar question.

Ukraine surrendered its nuclear weapons because they knew Russia would target their nuclear sites, ultimately forcing them to surrender. No country can risk having its nuclear installations targeted, as it would expose the entire nation to radioactive fallout.

Targeting Pakistan’s nuclear installations is not part of India’s declared policy. However, if Pakistan begins preparing for a nuclear launch, India may be compelled to take this unfortunate but necessary step.

 

[SaadH]

Agree, and the high value targets should be of an economic nature, not military. India cares deepest about its economic trajectory and catching all the factories that West is forcing to move out of China via its trade war.

You mean one of these:

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[SaadH]

The most advanced fighter jet shot down by f16 is syrian mig 29 by israelis,in other words downgraded junk. Most f16 kills are against 3rd generation aircraft by those american thugs in gulf, in other words those kills are hardly impressive

The most advanced fighter jet ever shot down is the rafale by J10


Also this is what pakistan needs to do even if you improve air defence

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Pakistan needs to start improving missiles like iran, and start making and relying on drones more.

That's true of all western fighters, they've only shot down outdated Russian junks. What's the most advanced fighter shot down by the most dominant western fighter, F-15? Probably an Iraqi Mig-25 or a Mig-29 during gulf war 1...

 

[Cryptonian]

Guys can you verify if the fact-check of picture below is accurate or not ??