Lessons for Pakistan from the Israel/Iran conflict of June 2025

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Lots of traitors within Iran.
You have a sizeable population that's against the Ayotollah regime. You have a population that also has seen the regime of the shah and compares it with this regime. When you have that, you will have people who will work against your interests.


Also it's safe to say indian network within Iran definitely assisted Israel in setting up this entire op.

Humaray haalat iss say bhi buray hai.. humain as a qaum apni ana dushmaniyaan sab chorh kay aik qaum banna hoga aur narazon ko mana kay mil kay tayari karni hogi..warna KPK and Balochistan kay loug bhttt bad dil hain iss waqt

 

[Rational Philosopher]

The first and foremost lesson is to understand that narrative building can lead to miscalculations. As an observer, it is important to understand that every country have its story. Israel have its story. Iran have its story. It is important to pay attention to both stories and HOW these two countries found themselves in a conflict situation. Different people will have a different take on this theme on a personal level but the state needs to have an objective take on it. Israel might be deemed irrational for how it treats Palestinians which is fair but it found peace with Egypt and not at war with many countries. Iran was also deeply involved in conflict situations in different countries. This type of foreign policy is not tenable or without pitfalls. The Axis of Resistance was created for what purpose? To wipe out Israel or to control the Middle East or both? If Iran strives to be a superpower, sure. But Pakistan cannot be held responsible for Iran having lost ground in that game.

Pakistan's focus should be on its development, HOW to improve relations with different countries, and HOW to reduce tensions with countries that WE happen to have disagreements with. It is not wise to ceate more enemies.

Pakistani forces strive to prepare for external threats but defenses can never be foolproof. Some are talking about hypersonics but new tools are emerging to intercept weapons in this class as well. Arms race is a continous issue and a costly undertaking. WE are a nuclear power, if these weapons fail to deter and/or provide a sense of security, nothing will be good enough.

The world is imperfect. People are imperfect. Muslims are supposed to submit to Allah Almighty, not worldly gains. Islam teach modesty, not imperialism. The world is split into nation states in current times. Pakistan is a nation state as well. So focus on how to preserve it. To this end:
- Focus on the needs of the people to reduce the possibility of internal discontent.
- Focus on how to achieve economic sustainability.
- Focus on defenses but also on having a sound foreign policy.

All those who accuse me of being Pro US or another country are wrong. I am Pro Pakistan and concerned about Pakistan. For others, I am neutral. I am not oblivious to global developments though. WE need to have a realistic view to understand our options. have our own set of problems to address. WE cannot solve every problem out there.

WE can strive to have good relations with our neighbors but WE should be the voice of reason too and be honest about our options and limitations with them subject to how they carry themselves.

Good advice.

In the process of "building narrarives" one should not fool themselves into a false sense of security or superiority. That's how you end up in a worse position than Iran — by lying to yourself. Being honest about your situation is the only way to improve.

Real strength lies in tangible power, smart diplomacy, and focusing on economic growth.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Lots of traitors within Iran.
You have a sizeable population that's against the Ayotollah regime. You have a population that also has seen the regime of the shah and compares it with this regime. When you have that, you will have people who will work against your interests.


Also it's safe to say indian network within Iran definitely assisted Israel in setting up this entire op.

or tech. (3D printing) has made incapable hand very effective and capable hands!


trick is to understand chain in tech., any network can be broke, once chains in tech. are understood well in advance...


Network Breakages: (Argument has gone both ways!)
I hope you can see the contrast and duality!

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

we should do the minimum that can not only deter india, israel but also all the sugar papas of israel in defence. then we work on our economy and trade with whole world with claim that our defence progress is only for the defence of our country and we are no threat to anyone.

 

[BonPlan]

Lesson 4: start making hypersonic long range cruise missiles as well as HGVs and atleast until the end of next year pak should have atleast 500 of them to scare the shit out of israel

Why do you want to scare Israel ?
Do you have a litigation with them (except they are judes and you muslims) ?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

this is a broader passage but is in spirit of your thread

Counter Espionage:
Stop Persecuting minorities, rein in lynch mobs like TLP that encourages descent and disillusionment among persecuted members of community due to their distinct features (Hazara) and faith (Shia, Ahmadis, Christians. Hindus etc). the enemy will approach them and use this division to its advantage. And when the chaos hits, these communities will be least sympathetic (towards general public & republic) when the chaos hits everyone.

A sizeable population of Pakistan sympathizes with religious terrorists, they use this pool (across Pakistan) for recruitment and logistics. your next door neighbor maybe harboring a group of individuals who are scouting the military installations. this needs to change through deradicalization, discouraging takfiri and sectarian preachers overhauling our education system. for a start take down the bully of Red mosque. you cant wait and sleep on it. he will strike back. TTP operatives make regular videos of them in front of our military HQ's and other govt buildings. there is propaganda and there is real threat. they done big favors to India through some stunning attacks on military bases of all three branches repeatedly.

Deradicalization is imperative. It begins with silencing takfiri and sectarian voices, reforming the education system, and standing up to known instigators. The Red Mosque and similar hubs of extremism must be addressed not feared or excused. Delay will only empower them further.

Technology, High tech education & Cooperation
have knowledgeable and informed leadership on top that has the vision and ability to bring in reliable partnerships with countries like Turkey or China (mainly ITAR free) that leads meaningful projects, R&D co-production and cooperation wherever feasible for high tech (including space and web etc.)Avoid Iranian example of repainted 1950's tech and showing off in parades to clueless clergy.

Restructuring Military
Adapt all the branches according to modern trench and new threat perceptions take examples from recent conflict with India, Middle East and Eastern Europe. (Do's and Don't).
this should be in terms of its organization, specialist units, their training and also the required hardware. the army recognizes it and since Gen Musharraf time it gave up its portion of budget to help PAF to acquire the bloc 52 F-16s. the corps of air defense needs attention as well.

re protection against missile , drones and jets, PAF is the tip of the spear but when it comes to protecting assts on ground it needs help from army and navy as well since its scope on ground is limited to its own bases the army Air defense corps overlaps it and is responsible for protection of its own assets. while we are at it , don't forget the Navy that is responsible for safeguarding our vital supplies and economic route.

Secrecy
keep it to yourself. don't boast our abilities. keep the information leak to the minimum. safeguard against Israeli style cyber attacks that have crippled Iranian military and nuclear installations on multiple occasions.

A balance needs to be struck to show something for sufficient deterrence to keep Indians at bay and reluctant but not too much that they build counters to it. India is our only primary adversary and goes on shopping spree. its using both military hardware and unconventional hardware to harm our strategic assets. the role of Israelis might be more overt and pronounced next time.

New Doctrine
it is need of the day . preemptive strike or something similar needs to be war gamed. waiting on Indians to launch attacks and then respond might not work next time in case they start with barrage of drone swarms and missiles, taking out all airfields and installations and essentially grounding our air force just like in East Pakistan.

Military operations doctorate will need to employ missiles , cruise, ballistic, air, land , sea etc as the lead attacks to counter or nullify Indian aggression. they had relatively better outcomes than their air force when it comes to Brahmos missile attacks a counter for that is needed but no amount of multilayer defence can provide 100% safety against super/ hypersonic missiles when the reaction time is too limited due to close proximity and lack of strategic depth of the country.

its highly likely that India will not risk brining its jets at the start of next aggression it will be the missiles. If and when there is any such indication that India is prepping to launch such attacks then waiting for their launch and impact maybe too late .Our operational doctrine must now lead with cruise and ballistic missiles, supported by multi-domain (air, sea, land, cyber) synchronization. This layered approach, if executed early and decisively, can neutralize Indian strikes before they inflict strategic damage.

best defense is offense and preemptive strike of the same and for that all contingency planning and war gaming needs to be done to make it work. Our goal still remains deterrence and self defense. nothing more nothing less.

 

[Developereo]

@Developero

Buddy, we get targeted assassinations throughout Pakistan. India can strike anywhere within Pakistan.

The head bobbers can certainly bump off a few low class spent out militants who are no longer useful to the PAK agencies. Their ability to cause any serious damage to Pak military assets- human or material- is unproven.

Regards

The general consensus in Pakistan is that the 2012 attack on PAF airbase Minhas that destroyed our Erieye was masterminded by India.

 

[Oracle]

Identify such sudo Israeli and sudo balochi

( banned in Iran thread because of some kids didn't like my response that Iran is in trouble )

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Why do you want to scare Israel ?
Do you have a litigation with them (except they are judes and you muslims) ?

You have raised two critical questions that warrant a thoughtful response. The first question asks why we are "threatening" Israel. Let me clarify: the Muslim world is not inherently aggressive toward Israel. Rather, Israel’s actions in the region prevent peaceful coexistence. Why does Israel perceive any progress by an Islamic nation as a threat to its existence? If Iran or Pakistan develops nuclear capabilities, it is deemed an "Islamic bomb" endangering Israel. Yet, Israel’s nuclear arsenal is not labeled a "Jewish bomb" nor seen as a threat to others. If Israel behaved responsibly, like a nation committed to peace, what issue would we have with it? For centuries, Jerusalem was under Muslim control, and no Jewish individual was harmed under our stewardship. Our focus is on ensuring our safety and security. Why is our right to self-defense so difficult for others to accept?


Israel must coexist peacefully with Pakistan and other Muslim nations. Declaring Jerusalem an international city, open to Muslims, Christians, and Jews for worship, would be a step toward harmony. Granting Palestinians their basic rights—freedom to live, study, and work—would significantly reduce the animosity toward Israel. Returning to your first question about "threatening" Israel: neither Pakistan nor other Muslim nations have attacked Israel, nor do we intend to unless first israel attacked them. However, if we fail to prepare, we know Israel will not hesitate to target us, as its actions suggest a persistent intent to undermine our security.


Your second question implies that Muslims have some issue with the Jews. This is a misconception. Muslims have never systematically oppressed Jews. During the Ottoman era, Jews sought refuge in Muslim lands, fleeing persecution by Christians, and we provided them sanctuary. We imposed no religious restrictions, allowing Jews to visit Jerusalem freely. The only condition—limiting Jewish settlement—was stipulated by Christians in the Pact of Umar during Caliph Umar’s (RA) time, not by Muslims.


Now as a Christian residing in France, I ask you: why do you continue to support and arm a state that threatens every Muslim nation, viewing every Muslim as a potential threat? Have you not seen the devastation caused by Israel’s actions? Thousands of children and innocent civilians have been killed, schools and hospitals targeted, and food supplies blocked. Does you even have a shred of humanity remain that you are doing nothing but defending and arming literally an agent of satan (devil) ? also ask yourself as a christains they are the people who persecuted Jesus and still what are their views against jesus?

 

[Mark Bennett]

this is a broader passage but is in spirit of your thread

Counter Espionage:
Stop Persecuting minorities, rein in lynch mobs like TLP that encourages descent and disillusionment among persecuted members of community due to their distinct features (Hazara) and faith (Shia, Ahmadis, Christians. Hindus etc). the enemy will approach them and use this division to its advantage. And when the chaos hits, these communities will be least sympathetic (towards general public & republic) when the chaos hits everyone.

A sizeable population of Pakistan sympathizes with religious terrorists, they use this pool (across Pakistan) for recruitment and logistics. your next door neighbor maybe harboring a group of individuals who are scouting the military installations. this needs to change through deradicalization, discouraging takfiri and sectarian preachers overhauling our education system. for a start take down the bully of Red mosque. you cant wait and sleep on it. he will strike back. TTP operatives make regular videos of them in front of our military HQ's and other govt buildings. there is propaganda and there is real threat. they done big favors to India through some stunning attacks on military bases of all three branches repeatedly.

Deradicalization is imperative. It begins with silencing takfiri and sectarian voices, reforming the education system, and standing up to known instigators. The Red Mosque and similar hubs of extremism must be addressed not feared or excused. Delay will only empower them further.

Technology, High tech education & Cooperation
have knowledgeable and informed leadership on top that has the vision and ability to bring in reliable partnerships with countries like Turkey or China (mainly ITAR free) that leads meaningful projects, R&D co-production and cooperation wherever feasible for high tech (including space and web etc.)Avoid Iranian example of repainted 1950's tech and showing off in parades to clueless clergy.

Restructuring Military
Adapt all the branches according to modern trench and new threat perceptions take examples from recent conflict with India, Middle East and Eastern Europe. (Do's and Don't).
this should be in terms of its organization, specialist units, their training and also the required hardware. the army recognizes it and since Gen Musharraf time it gave up its portion of budget to help PAF to acquire the bloc 52 F-16s. the corps of air defense needs attention as well.

re protection against missile , drones and jets, PAF is the tip of the spear but when it comes to protecting assts on ground it needs help from army and navy as well since its scope on ground is limited to its own bases the army Air defense corps overlaps it and is responsible for protection of its own assets. while we are at it , don't forget the Navy that is responsible for safeguarding our vital supplies and economic route.

Secrecy
keep it to yourself. don't boast our abilities. keep the information leak to the minimum. safeguard against Israeli style cyber attacks that have crippled Iranian military and nuclear installations on multiple occasions.

A balance needs to be struck to show something for sufficient deterrence to keep Indians at bay and reluctant but not too much that they build counters to it. India is our only primary adversary and goes on shopping spree. its using both military hardware and unconventional hardware to harm our strategic assets. the role of Israelis might be more overt and pronounced next time.

New Doctrine
it is need of the day . preemptive strike or something similar needs to be war gamed. waiting on Indians to launch attacks and then respond might not work next time in case they start with barrage of drone swarms and missiles, taking out all airfields and installations and essentially grounding our air force just like in East Pakistan.

Military operations doctorate will need to employ missiles , cruise, ballistic, air, land , sea etc as the lead attacks to counter or nullify Indian aggression. they had relatively better outcomes than their air force when it comes to Brahmos missile attacks a counter for that is needed but no amount of multilayer defence can provide 100% safety against super/ hypersonic missiles when the reaction time is too limited due to close proximity and lack of strategic depth of the country.

its highly likely that India will not risk brining its jets at the start of next aggression it will be the missiles. If and when there is any such indication that India is prepping to launch such attacks then waiting for their launch and impact maybe too late .Our operational doctrine must now lead with cruise and ballistic missiles, supported by multi-domain (air, sea, land, cyber) synchronization. This layered approach, if executed early and decisively, can neutralize Indian strikes before they inflict strategic damage.

best defense is offense and preemptive strike of the same and for that all contingency planning and war gaming needs to be done to make it work. Our goal still remains deterrence and self defense. nothing more nothing less.

Awesome.

Just want to add: People should have the right to choose such policy through their vote.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Awesome.

Just want to add: People should have the right to choose such policy through their vote.

Choose what policy? Policy making should be left to professionals and experts of their field, not the whims of an emotional and clueless public for the sake of optics.

Why should a majority uneducated and often extremist population be left to handle matters beyond their understanding such as foreign policy, etc? Not everything is a smart idea because it is promoted by the western world.

 

[Distant_Observer]

Choose what policy? Policy making should he left to professionals and experts of their field.

Why should a majority uneducated and often extremist population be left to handle matters beyond their understanding such as foreign policy? Not everything is a smart idea because it is promoted by the western world.

Pakistanis are some of the most jahil, uneducated, irrational and extremists to have ever existed in human history.

They do not deserve to decide anything until they evolve or all of Jinnah's work will be undone by foolish decisions.

Policy shall be decided by more responsible and sane actors for the foreseeable.

 

[LeGenD]

Identify such sudo Israeli and sudo balochi

( banned in Iran thread because of some kids didn't like my response that Iran is in trouble )

View attachment 128451

I do not understand why a person pretends to be someone else. Fake syndrome? Mental conditon? It is strange mindset.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Pakistanis are some of the most jahil, uneducated, irrational and extremists to have ever existed in human history.

They do not deserve to decide anything until they evolve or all of Jinnah's work will be undone by foolish decisions.

Policy shall be decided by more responsible and sane actors for the foreseeable.

I seriously don't understand their itch. It's all an optics exercise with no logic to it.

Instead of leaving things to professionals and experts of their field with valuable experience and knowledge, the chapris want an uneducated public to decide everything because they saw the west do it and want to feel important.

You can either focus on real development based on competent policies, or you can continue doing chapri performance but when you are being bombed you won't have any right to complain since you thought the uneducated extremist public knew better.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

I do not understand why a person pretends to be someone else. Fake syndrome? Mental conditon? Strange mindset.

they are paid!


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