Lessons for Pakistan from the Israel/Iran conflict of June 2025

[Rational Philosopher]

Another huge lesson:

Boasting and being overconfident in your own false propaganda and "narratives" does not build real world strength. If you don't criticise yourself and accept your enemies' strengths, you will be humiliated during war. Always be objective and analyse things neutrally.

Too much false bravado and hubris even by Pakistanis.

 

[Saaju]

I would say the most important lesson is don't wait for the enemy to bring the war to your door. Instead, anticipate his plans and take the war to his door proactively.

We know we are next if Iran is defeated but we are living in denial. We should be helping Iran actively and covertly -- at least with AD.

Shooting down Israeli jets would be a massive PR achievement.

I can't believe Pakistani establishment doesn't see what's coming our way -- possibly as early as next year if Iran is defeated.

How do we know they aren't already helping them covertly?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Your top leadership being decapitated like nothing is not normal, so it's better you stop normalising quite literally every failure you see. It is a huge fucking failure.

Why are you everywhere trying to brush every failure off as casual or normal, and will 'happen'?

How many jets did Israel destroy on the ground in the Egypt-Israel war because there wasn't the "right" Egyptian Officers in the C&C to make decisions on what to do next during Israel's surprise attack, while they waited for officers to come in from home ? How much damage did Israel manage to inflict during that indecision period ....

The C&C bunkers must be manned at all times with executive authority and there must be in place an agreed command hierarchy for decision making authority on who is the next officer in charge, that is the takeaway from this operation, and with Egypt-Israel war.

If you don't understand that by now, then no one can explain that to you in a way you can understand.

 

[Ali_Baba]

As I reported earlier, Israel has killed Iran's New Chief of Defence Staff. He took this post only 4 days ago after the previous chief was killed !! Absolutely shocking.

Now I am waiting for Iran supporters to say this is perfectly NORMAL.

Is this confirmed ?

 

[Developereo]

How do we know they aren't already helping them covertly?

We would have seen at least one Israeli plane shot down by now if Pakistan was helping Iran. Our latest Chinese radars may not see the Israeli F-35s but their F-16s should be a piece of cake for our J-10s.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

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[Justin TruDont]

Lesson 1: Have an airforce

That'd be all

I would like to add my 2 cents

In modern warfare
You need atleast 200 advance 4+ fighters to take on a Tier 1 adversary like Israel.
in the middle east, only Saudi Arabia, Egypt and UAE possess that capability, and all if them are in bed with Israel

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

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[Ali_Baba]

Stop showing restraint.

Yes - agree - modern wars are brutally quick at their outset. When you are in a fight, look to finish it quickly by going for the kill shot, don't hang around or the other opponent will get the drop on you if he is "not" playing by the same rules of "honour and restraint" that you are playing by.

 

[samejjangir]

By ending strategic ambiguity means doing so in all domain including diplomacy. Even now, without testing ICBM, US has placed our missile program under sanctions so how good is this restrained? Yes, every action and decision has its cost but we must see the benefit as well. India has tested ICBM all ready, how many sanctions it has? And always remember, it is not the Pakistan alone who needs US. Vice-Versa is also equally true.

USA will place sanctions on missile programs. It sanctioned Indian space program, sanctioned Indian semiconductors & even burnt down Indian semiconductor fab in Chandigarh in 1989, taking advantage of USSR's weakness. USA sanctions doesn't affect India as India has developed all its strategic tech on its own. So, it doesn't openly impose sanctions anymore but simply uses hidden sanctions to restrict sales indirectly.

Indians have a China excuse. Their missiles cannot reach the US and there is no way they dare attack Israel.

Pakistan actually does need IRBMs or ICBMs to target Indian bases in Madagascar 6000km away -- but you have to convince the Americans of this.

An alternative is setting up a PAF Global Strike Command, with J-35/strat bomber bases/sub bases in allied nations like Bangladesh, Indonesia, China, Maldives, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Azerbaijan, Bosnia, etc.

But this is REALLY expensive compared to ICBMs. SO maybe uncle sam can bankroll it

India doesn't care about excuses. India will build what it needs. India doesn't get anything from USA & USA has sanctioned all strategic missile & semiconductor related goods to India. India is developing things on its own.

Did Pakistan take permission of Uncle Sam for its nuclear program? No.
Did Pakistan take permission of Uncle Sam for its relations with China? No.
Did Pakistan take permission of Uncle Sam for its missile program? No.
This is exactly the thing we need to put away. We will have to firmly stand with China against Indo-US-Israeli nexus. The World will allow us having overseas bases only when they will have confidence on our abilities. Money is secondary issue here. Gulf states allowed US bases and finance them because they were certain that these bases will protect them against Iranian threat. We can't stay in two boats any longer. We will have to make a choice or one will be imposed on us.

Actually, Pakistan got its nuclear enrichment blueprint from URENCO which wouldn't have been possible without USA gifting it. Relations with China depended on Pakistani needs and was not really beneficial to China. Even now, Pakistani behaviour and its submissiveness to USA has angered China (like arresting Imran for trying to build relations with Russia) and China doesn't trust Pakistan to be on its side. The fact that Pakistani nukes are a USA gift means Pakistani relations with USA will always be a dominant factor and weigh above Chinese relations.

 

[Serendipity]

To be honest it seems like Pakistan has only one route to survival in the future and that is arming other countries with nuclear tech. As crazy as it sounds, not being the only Muslim country with nuclear tech is the most robust way to get out of the cross hairs. I do not say this in a crass emotional way. I simply cannot think of an alternative. With what is happening right now, Pakistan will be in the cross hairs from both sided of the border unless other countries are armed with a reciprocal umbrella policy. The world will be a worst place for it, but it may be the only path to survival.

 

[Path-Finder]

A controversial take, since zionist agents used Spike ATGMs To target installations and assets along with drones.

As Iran makes a reverse engineered Spike called Almas, Hezbollah used the same system to target iznotreli military. I can only think of + attributes of having this system in great number in PA arsenal.

sorry, I forgot to add to my post above, Should we get TOT for Almas ATGM? as its multipurpose system and a great force multiplier!

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Another lesson:

Drone warfare only matter when two technologically backward airforces fight with each other.

Other wise cutting edge aircrafts along with MDO capabilities are unbeatable.

 

[Toxic]

sorry, I forgot to add to my post above, Should we get TOT for Almas ATGM? as its multipurpose system and a great force multiplier!

View attachment 128876

I believe there are work on developing burq ATGM

 

[Path-Finder]

Reduce army size and increase J-35 orders to 80.

can you qualify this statement?