PAF SAM based Air Defense System - News, Discussion & Updates

[Jamie]

PA is betting on SH15 more since you simply can't match Chinese price or Production capacity which is more logical way to go for Pakistan so we won't go for Local Wheeled SPH, perhaps a Fully automated wheeled SPH built locally could be viable though.

The local SPH don’t need to compete with the sh-15s, it can complement it.
The high and low mix can be a good thing. As long as the local one has 80% the capability in range and longevity, I don’t see why PA would not seriously consider it even if it costed the same as an imported sh-15.

 

[farooqbhai]

The local SPH don’t need to compete with the sh-15s, it can complement it.
The high and low mix can be a good thing. As long as the local one has 80% the capability in range and longevity, I don’t see why PA would not seriously consider it even if it costed the same as an imported sh-15.

We already have a high low mix of M109+SH15 equalling to more than 1k++ combined pieces projected. Plus PA has/had a requirement of a wheeled fully automated sph in addition to these 2. There simply isn't any space or funds for a second non-automated wheeled sph.

 

[Michael]

Originally, this towed dual 35MM anti-aircraft gun was eliminated by China. However, since the start of the Russian-Ukrainian war, UAV/FPV has appeared in large numbers. The PLA has redeployed this gun. However, the redeployed guns are now modified. They are linked to the radar system to achieve automatic aiming and automatic firing, no longer manually controlled.

In actual deployment, they are usually composed of many guns in clusters to form a dense air defense firepower network, with additional systems such as radar, fire control center, etc.

Pakistan can consider a similar modification. It is very effective against low-altitude and low-speed UAVs. If the modified control system is accurate enough, it also has a good interception effect on BrahMos cruise missiles.

 

[Reichmarshal]

This set up the Chinese deployed in "close coordination with Pakistan.
The Orikan guns, which the Chinese guns are a copy of, played the lead role in bringing down the indian, isreali made IR-seeking suicide/recon. drones. With minimal own loss.

 

[Ali_Baba]

View attachment 132257
Originally, this towed dual 35MM anti-aircraft gun was eliminated by China. However, since the start of the Russian-Ukrainian war, UAV/FPV has appeared in large numbers. The PLA has redeployed this gun. However, the redeployed guns are now modified. They are linked to the radar system to achieve automatic aiming and automatic firing, no longer manually controlled.

In actual deployment, they are usually composed of many guns in clusters to form a dense air defense firepower network, with additional systems such as radar, fire control center, etc.

Pakistan can consider a similar modification. It is very effective against low-altitude and low-speed UAVs. If the modified control system is accurate enough, it also has a good interception effect on BrahMos cruise missiles.

Nice - good that China kept hold of them. They are very useful in countering drones/UAVs for sure, esp if they are not automated.

 

[Michael]

Nice - good that China kept hold of them. They are very useful in countering drones/UAVs for sure, esp if they are not automated.

Since the automatic loading system is too large to be suitable for such a simple modification, these guns still need to be manually loaded with ammunition. Of course, their original manual mode is still retained, so they can also be fired in full manual mode.

 

[MastanKhan]

This set up the Chinese deployed in "close coordination with Pakistan.
The Orikan guns, which the Chinese guns are a copy of, played the lead role in bringing down the indian, isreali made IR-seeking suicide/recon. drones. With minimal own loss.

Hi,

Italy retired quite a few 4 barrel version guns---I don't remember if they were the Oerlikons or not---.

And did pakistan buy some---???

Most got picked up after seeing results in ukraine against the drones.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Hi,

Italy retired quite a few 4 barrel version guns---I don't remember if they were the Oerlikons or not---.

And did pakistan buy some---???

Most got picked up after seeing results in ukraine against the drones.

They most definitely did. PA in addition also operates the Chinese version.

 

[Xestan]

It was a Support vehicle which is simply attached to AD units for various tasks. It was not part of HQ16 or HQ9, it was not a power generator vehicle. Now please end this stupid discussion

To know the reasons of how a drone flew all the way in the area where HQ-16 was deployed, is not a stupid discussion. If you don't have anything to add, please just ignore my post.

 

[RescueRanger]

To know the reasons of how a drone flew all the way in the area where HQ-16 was deployed, is not a stupid discussion. If you don't have anything to add, please just ignore my post.

Salam,

Bahi the poster you are replying to is a very knowledgeable fellow on these topics. I would request that please kindly move on from this debate and focus on the topic please.

Much obliged.

 

[farooqbhai]

To know the reasons of how a drone flew all the way in the area where HQ-16 was deployed, is not a stupid discussion. If you don't have anything to add, please just ignore my post.

My apologies since you have not been able to simply comprehend what happened let me break it down for you.
An PA AD Unit compound located inside a major urban center located right on the Indian border, with the compound itself being about 20km from the Indian border, now AD is only kept inside those garages during "peace time", during the escalation the Battery was deployed ELSEWHERE. A random Support vehicle NOT A PART of the HQ Battery was parked outside a shed in the compound without any camo netting. That vehicle was struck by a Harop.

There are several issues here, one being detecting Low flying LMs over a urban center located right on the Indian border itself is a Issue on top of that simply no one has enough AD to establish a complete denial some against LMs especially when these AD compounds are meant to be empty in war time.

 

[farooqbhai]

Even the Israelis with by far the most advanced layered AD weren't able to intercept all Iranian drones, one footage released by them showed a Iranian LM being intercepted a few hundred meters from a Arrow ABM TEL. Despite the Israelis having the support or Jordanian & American Aircraft which were used to intercept those UAS in early stages.
Pakistan meanwhile had a single Harop hit on a vehicle out of more than 90 Harops launched that is extremely good given the amount of Shorad and AD we have.

 

[Psyko70]

Hi,

Italy retired quite a few 4 barrel version guns---I don't remember if they were the Oerlikons or not---.

And did pakistan buy some---???

Most got picked up after seeing results in ukraine against the drones.

Hello sir,

We should also operate CIWS at very important critical points.

 

[Xestan]

My apologies since you have not been able to simply comprehend what happened let me break it down for you.
An PA AD Unit compound located inside a major urban center located right on the Indian border, with the compound itself being about 20km from the Indian border, now AD is only kept inside those garages during "peace time", during the escalation the Battery was deployed ELSEWHERE. A random Support vehicle NOT A PART of the HQ Battery was parked outside a shed in the compound without any camo netting. That vehicle was struck by a Harop.

There are several issues here, one being detecting Low flying LMs over a urban center located right on the Indian border itself is a Issue on top of that simply no one has enough AD to establish a complete denial some against LMs especially when these AD compounds are meant to be empty in war time.

Thank you for the explanation. All I asked was, if this has already been discussed in detail, if someone can direct me to that discussion. Anyways. One of the injured Captain happened to be someone I know through a family friend. Sad that we lost one soldier in the attack, and hope lessons were learned. That's all.

 

[Path-Finder]

A controversial take, AD as we have seen in the Iran conflict. Has limitations against inbound missiles. Limitations in intercept and worst yet the reloading means you are out of the fight. If you are out then you can be eliminated. Iron Dome has been coined the term Iron Sieve.

need a better strategy overall, multi layer AD isn't the silver bullet. need locations where fighter can land and take off like Sweden has done.

need a robust rocket force. attack attack attack, defensive posture is not going to work any longer. in the next attack they will eliminate all air bases then do the main attack.

The last bout wasn't anything to cheer about.