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The Turkish and Pakistani Air Force commanders discussed avenues of advanced bilateral military cooperation in various fields, including manned fighters, stealth technology, missile technology and unmanned systems.


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ghazi52 said:
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The Turkish and Pakistani Air Force commanders discussed avenues of advanced bilateral military cooperation in various fields, including manned fighters, stealth technology, missile technology and unmanned systems.


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This is a lot of protocol for a Pak 2 star rank. Probably there to go into 7th May learnings with the Turks. handy as Greece has Mirage 2000 and Rafail
 
ghazi52 said:
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The Turkish and Pakistani Air Force commanders discussed avenues of advanced bilateral military cooperation in various fields, including manned fighters, stealth technology, missile technology and unmanned systems.


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@MastanKhan Isn't this something that missed the spotlight on this forum?
 
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Fatman17 said:
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This photo always makes me immensely proud. My late uncle, Sqn Ldr S M Ahmed (2nd from right in the picture below), was part of this world-record (of that time) setting display. Amazing fete by these PAF pioneers under the guidance of greats like Wing Commanders F S Hussain (a legend all on his own) and Zafar "Mitty" Masud.

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Food for thought by member @/Harbyharb on the hyper-tactical mindset of the PAF vs weaker overall strategic mindset:

"I say this with the past Indo-Pakistan wars in mind. In these wars the K/D ratio of PAF against IAF is generally considered to be around 1:2 to 1:5, admirable but not decisive (say, Israel vs arabs or Luftwaffe in earlier stages of WW2), and whenever the PAF had its initial taste of success but also losses, very often they would refrain from crossing the boarder and attack IAF installations/provide support for ground troops, instead conducting CAP within Pakistani boarders.

This means while PAF again and again bruised and hurt IAF, the IAF would always survive, and they had an admirable quality that they held to this day, which is the willingness to take risks and losses to achieve a greater overall strategic goal. For example in the 1965 second Indo-Pakistani war that pretty much laid the footnote for the saga of confrontations that followed, over half of IAF’s air fleet are ground attack focused, such as de Havilland Vampire, Dassault Ouragan/Mystere, all of which basically stand little chance against PAF’s F-86 Sabre should they get intercepted, but still they took off, flew frequent sorties, sometimes with little to no escort, conducted raid after raid that seriously battered Pakistan ground forces despite own losses. Sort of like the Soviet air force and their IL-2 sorties in WW2 in a way."
 
Rationalist said:
Food for thought by member @/Harbyharb on the hyper-tactical mindset of the PAF vs weaker overall strategic mindset:

"I say this with the past Indo-Pakistan wars in mind. In these wars the K/D ratio of PAF against IAF is generally considered to be around 1:2 to 1:5, admirable but not decisive (say, Israel vs arabs or Luftwaffe in earlier stages of WW2), and whenever the PAF had its initial taste of success but also losses, very often they would refrain from crossing the boarder and attack IAF installations/provide support for ground troops, instead conducting CAP within Pakistani boarders.

This means while PAF again and again bruised and hurt IAF, the IAF would always survive, and they had an admirable quality that they held to this day, which is the willingness to take risks and losses to achieve a greater overall strategic goal. For example in the 1965 second Indo-Pakistani war that pretty much laid the footnote for the saga of confrontations that followed, over half of IAF’s air fleet are ground attack focused, such as de Havilland Vampire, Dassault Ouragan/Mystere, all of which basically stand little chance against PAF’s F-86 Sabre should they get intercepted, but still they took off, flew frequent sorties, sometimes with little to no escort, conducted raid after raid that seriously battered Pakistan ground forces despite own losses. Sort of like the Soviet air force and their IL-2 sorties in WW2 in a way."
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This is rubbish that I dispelled in the other thread.

1) Almost the entire PAF fleet (bar 12 F-104s) were Sabres for multirole. PAF never had the luxury of dedcated ground attack planes, so this comparison is pretty meaningless. PAF has to flay every type of sortie with just the Sabre basically.
2) PAF took massive risks, both early in (Pathenkot airbase attack) and later during the war (attacking the major IAF base at Kaliakunda in the East despite having just 12 Sabres based there, PAF actually went on the offensive)
3) Incorrect on the Vampire. Any student of the war knows that when we shot down 4 over Lahore in the opening round, they never flew against AF again.
 
Yasser76 said:
This is rubbish that I dispelled in the other thread.

1) Almost the entire PAF fleet (bar 12 F-104s) were Sabres for multirole. PAF never had the luxury of dedcated ground attack planes, so this comparison is pretty meaningless. PAF has to flay every type of sortie with just the Sabre basically.
2) PAF took massive risks, both early in (Pathenkot airbase attack) and later during the war (attacking the major IAF base at Kaliakunda in the East despite having just 12 Sabres based there, PAF actually went on the offensive)
3) Incorrect on the Vampire. Any student of the war knows that when we shot down 4 over Lahore in the opening round, they never flew against AF again.
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Yeah he was wrong on the Vampire claim, but I think he meant generally limited synergy with the army's planned offensive efforts by continued CAS missions, which from his opinion was too limited which damaged the overall war goals strategically. Anyway I'll let him respond.
 
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