India Lucky Not To Lose More Than Four Rafales

[TAC]

Hi,

It is very easy---. Just add me to your ignore list---.

You don't know the purpose of a muslim to cut the throat of his sacrificail animal---skin it and cut the meat.

You really don't know---.

It is for the purpose that you may cut the throat of your enemies and your hands don't shake and you don't hesitate---.

Do you know of any israelis---have you ever worked them---. Have you ever worked with zionists---I have.

Where does the near peer enemy come int place---.

Paf pilots had 80 aircraft in target---they had 134 BVR missiles that could outdo any enemy missiles---and they pick and chose 5 or 7 aircraft that had launched weapons at pakistan---and decided to let other leave---.

And them to top it off---the PAF gave all its operational secrets on public forum to show how good they were---.

You’re added to my ignore list. Life’s too short for such nonsense.

 

[Oscar]

You’re added to my ignore list. Life’s too short for such nonsense.

All extreme opinions shouldn’t be cause for offense.

The discussions at Sanober institute were pointing to an interesting metric. To quote the Dark knight.

Madness is like Gravity - all it takes is one little push.

So based on what happened on the 10th - Pakistan’s leadership took a calculus that it was not dealing with rational actors so what if you crossed beyond a certain point and those actors decided to launch a desperate mass attack through Cholistan(which they might still do) and the sea or worse still try to hit nuclear facilities to maybe prompt a nuclear response from Pakistan. A response they might use to go from that already maddening escalation ladder to perhaps launch everything at Pakistan and so on?
The OODA loop for a nuclear decision for both Pakistan and India is under 7 minutes.

They’re already using dual use systems conveniently so how can Pakistan tell besides intelligence that that is coming is either conventional or nuclear?

Either Pakistan launches an all out or a nuclear weapon but what if the Indian system isn’t nuclear? Then what do you tell the world?

It’s a mind boggling issue.

So you go as far as your assessment of the other side’s capacity for madness goes. Remember, the IAF basically grounded itself when the PaF attacked giving it full air superiority during Bunyan al Marsoos and only lobbed Brahmos until the PAF vacated and then launched extreme low level(and well executed) strikes with Scalp and one other system.

Imagine Modi or Amit Shah or the more hawkish terrorists in their midst - what if they were to say Pakistan had crossed the line and its time to launch a nuclear weapon?
Their power structure lies solely with civilians so if they decide to go then they go. They don’t have a varied NSC(to Pakistan’s “ironic” credit) with military, bureaucracy and some political representation.

So while I find MK’s views overly brash and extremist he has a point - what if in this case there is too much “restraint” and caution on assuming there is a lower threshold for Indian response?

What if they are blustering as well and having much much much more to lose are more open to an exit if properly beaten down.

Some part of it is inherited memory from 71, from Kargil, brasstacks and Parakaram.

Where they saw the Indians come back with a massive response and every branch was outmatched.

This isn’t the case today nor was it so in 2019.

Pakistan isn’t really that outmatched - but perhaps they don’t know that yet.

What if to get their maddened heads to be a little more sane and “Sindoor continues” to calm down. You did need to hurt them even more at every decision making level so if their political ideals did go to the IAF or IA or IN - their military commanders hit back and tell them we are not prepared to lose another 30 jets, a fifth of our forward deployed ammo and a ship.

Just food for thought

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Most definitely Indian.

Why do Indians nowadays use false flags?

To avoid embarrassment?

 

[gamaji]

All extreme opinions shouldn’t be cause for offense.

The discussions at Sanober institute were pointing to an interesting metric. To quote the Dark knight.

Madness is like Gravity - all it takes is one little push.

So based on what happened on the 10th - Pakistan’s leadership took a calculus that it was not dealing with rational actors so what if you crossed beyond a certain point and those actors decided to launch a desperate mass attack through Cholistan(which they might still do) and the sea or worse still try to hit nuclear facilities to maybe prompt a nuclear response from Pakistan. A response they might use to go from that already maddening escalation ladder to perhaps launch everything at Pakistan and so on?
The OODA loop for a nuclear decision for both Pakistan and India is under 7 minutes.

They’re already using dual use systems conveniently so how can Pakistan tell besides intelligence that that is coming is either conventional or nuclear?

Either Pakistan launches an all out or a nuclear weapon but what if the Indian system isn’t nuclear? Then what do you tell the world?

It’s a mind boggling issue.

So you go as far as your assessment of the other side’s capacity for madness goes. Remember, the IAF basically grounded itself when the PaF attacked giving it full air superiority during Bunyan al Marsoos and only lobbed Brahmos until the PAF vacated and then launched extreme low level(and well executed) strikes with Scalp and one other system.

Imagine Modi or Amit Shah or the more hawkish terrorists in their midst - what if they were to say Pakistan had crossed the line and its time to launch a nuclear weapon?
Their power structure lies solely with civilians so if they decide to go then they go. They don’t have a varied NSC(to Pakistan’s “ironic” credit) with military, bureaucracy and some political representation.

So while I find MK’s views overly brash and extremist he has a point - what if in this case there is too much “restraint” and caution on assuming there is a lower threshold for Indian response?

What if they are blustering as well and having much much much more to lose are more open to an exit if properly beaten down.

Some part of it is inherited memory from 71, from Kargil, brasstacks and Parakaram.

Where they saw the Indians come back with a massive response and every branch was outmatched.

This isn’t the case today nor was it so in 2019.

Pakistan isn’t really that outmatched - but perhaps they don’t know that yet.

What if to get their maddened heads to be a little more sane and “Sindoor continues” to calm down. You did need to hurt them even more at every decision making level so if their political ideals did go to the IAF or IA or IN - their military commanders hit back and tell them we are not prepared to lose another 30 jets, a fifth of our forward deployed ammo and a ship.

Just food for thought

A ship? What is that?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

This was once in a lifetime opportunity for the Paf to neuter the IAF completely---.

The mercies of Allah had presented the enemy on a platter to take them out---all at the discretion of the Paf---Paf in total control---.

Never in the history of modern warfare a peer air force was at the mercy of another air force ready to be annihilated once for all---.

Listening to the statements made by the Paf General---I realized that they had no concept what the enemy had in plan.

The Paf was thinking that the enemy will back off with warning shots---.

Tghe problem is that the punjabis have never seen slavery to a different race for 800 years as the hindus have---.

They will obliterate us whenever they get the chance---today---tomorrow and from 50 years from today---.

The only thing Paf could have done is to have delayed it substantially for decades to come---.

Mahmud Ghaznavi---failed 16 times---the indians have only failed 4 times---.

Mahmud Ghaznavi got thrashing of his life 16 time---the indians got beat up pretty bad this time---.

Ghaznavi only needed one chance to succeed---whence he obliterated Somnath---after 16 failures---.

Slobodan Milisevich was a very educated person---played with muslim kids as he grew up---but when he became an adult---old wounds started festering---.

He would dig out the graves of old dead serbians---take out their bpones and claim that they were killed by the muslim invaders / rulers---riled up the serbian nation and slaughtered the muslim natives.

Pakistan is also going to be a victim of that onslaught---people like Gen Bahkshi---Major Gaurav Ariya---etc etc etc---and PM Modi himself---are like Milosevich---trying to wake up their nation---slowly but surely---.

And what did the PAF do---let thirty three 33 Rafales escape---at least they could have taken all the Rafales out---india would have calmed down for 20 years---.

 

[dbc]

By the way, Warnes has further clarified his statement yesterday on X.
He has definitely shown the evidence of Rafale shooting down. Those who were doubting him yesterday, take note.

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seriously? cyberware was used to take down the Rafale? not a chance in hell. Not unless Pakistani agents were able to gain access to the IAF Rafale or infiltrated the OEM.

So if the PAF was able to jam/spoof/deceive SPECTRA through EW then how is it not Thales fault?

I'm afraid Alan Warners isn't qualified to absolve Thales, Spectra of fault.

 

[Oscar]

A ship? What is that?

Its a large object made of steel that floats on water - but that’s not important right now.

 

[arjunk]

seriously? cyberware was used to take down the Rafale? not a chance in hell. Not unless Pakistani agents were able to gain access to the IAF Rafale or infiltrated the OEM.

So if the PAF was able to jam/spoof/deceive SPECTRA through EW then how is it not Thales fault?

I'm afraid Alan Warners isn't qualified to absolve Thales, Spectra of fault.

He's trying to say Indians are exceptionally incompetent. That's also the opinion of PAF who is aware of Rafale's capabilities. It's a shame such a beautiful aircraft was ruined by Indian imbeciles.

Lesson: Don't sell weapons to India, it's bad for business

 

[Great Mal]

D measuring competition between PAF & IAF who can lie the most.

One Rafale was shot down by visual ground imagery if there was something else we would know.

Get over it we won the initial skirmish. 4 Indian jets including 1 Rafale down happy days

 

[arjunk]

All extreme opinions shouldn’t be cause for offense.

The discussions at Sanober institute were pointing to an interesting metric. To quote the Dark knight.

Madness is like Gravity - all it takes is one little push.

So based on what happened on the 10th - Pakistan’s leadership took a calculus that it was not dealing with rational actors so what if you crossed beyond a certain point and those actors decided to launch a desperate mass attack through Cholistan(which they might still do) and the sea or worse still try to hit nuclear facilities to maybe prompt a nuclear response from Pakistan. A response they might use to go from that already maddening escalation ladder to perhaps launch everything at Pakistan and so on?
The OODA loop for a nuclear decision for both Pakistan and India is under 7 minutes.

They’re already using dual use systems conveniently so how can Pakistan tell besides intelligence that that is coming is either conventional or nuclear?

Either Pakistan launches an all out or a nuclear weapon but what if the Indian system isn’t nuclear? Then what do you tell the world?

It’s a mind boggling issue.

So you go as far as your assessment of the other side’s capacity for madness goes. Remember, the IAF basically grounded itself when the PaF attacked giving it full air superiority during Bunyan al Marsoos and only lobbed Brahmos until the PAF vacated and then launched extreme low level(and well executed) strikes with Scalp and one other system.

Imagine Modi or Amit Shah or the more hawkish terrorists in their midst - what if they were to say Pakistan had crossed the line and its time to launch a nuclear weapon?
Their power structure lies solely with civilians so if they decide to go then they go. They don’t have a varied NSC(to Pakistan’s “ironic” credit) with military, bureaucracy and some political representation.

So while I find MK’s views overly brash and extremist he has a point - what if in this case there is too much “restraint” and caution on assuming there is a lower threshold for Indian response?

What if they are blustering as well and having much much much more to lose are more open to an exit if properly beaten down.

Some part of it is inherited memory from 71, from Kargil, brasstacks and Parakaram.

Where they saw the Indians come back with a massive response and every branch was outmatched.

This isn’t the case today nor was it so in 2019.

Pakistan isn’t really that outmatched - but perhaps they don’t know that yet.

What if to get their maddened heads to be a little more sane and “Sindoor continues” to calm down. You did need to hurt them even more at every decision making level so if their political ideals did go to the IAF or IA or IN - their military commanders hit back and tell them we are not prepared to lose another 30 jets, a fifth of our forward deployed ammo and a ship.

Just food for thought

We should eliminate the BJP and RSS leadership, as well as any potential successors. Let the Indian military, who is sane-minded, take over command of Indian nukes.

That way, there is space to defeat India in a limited conflict without nuclear escalation.

Let's be real, the Indians can afford to lose Kashmir, it doesn't really affect their economy at all and they have no natural connection to the region other than 'we wuz rishi ketchup 3000 yearz ago saar.' For mountain tourism they have Himachal, UK, Sikkim, Nepal and Northeast. Per IWT they already have the entire Indus eastern system for irrigating East Punjab.

It is very easy for a level-headed govt to salvage a defeated India's image by implementing UNSC Res. 80 referendum under the guise of being a democracy and all that. After all, if the UK and Canada hold such referendums, why can't India? And if Germany can become the most pro-Israel nation in the world, why can't a post-Kashmir defeated and reformed India mend ties with Pakistan?

 

[Oscar]

We should eliminate the BJP and RSS leadership, as well as any potential successors. Let the Indian military, who is sane-minded, take over command of Indian nukes.

That way, there is space to defeat India in a limited conflict without nuclear escalation.

Let's be real, the Indians can afford to lose Kashmir, it doesn't really affect their economy at all and they have no natural connection to the region other than 'we wuz rishi ketchup 3000 yearz ago saar.' For mountain tourism they have Himachal, UK, Sikkim, Nepal and Northeast. Per IWT they already have the entire Indus eastern system for irrigating East Punjab.

It is very easy for a level-headed govt to salvage a defeated India's image by implementing UNSC Res. 80 referendum under the guise of being a democracy and all that. After all, if the UK and Canada hold such referendums, why can't India? And if Germany can become the most pro-Israel nation in the world, why can't a post-Kashmir defeated and reformed India mend ties with Pakistan?

And two gold birds that feed military industrial complexes of the world?
Never

Abandon the political and immortality ambitions of their leaders
Never

All these types posting here and everywhere else are ants to be led by smells of sugar in all forms - be it religious, nationalist or otherwise

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@MastanKhan sb,

Mahmud Ghaznavi---failed 16 times

I think you have your names mixed up. Ghaznavi Pai never failed even once. It was Ghori, who according to Hindu historians, who failed 16 times before he finally stumped Prithvi.

Maybe Dada (@Joe Shearer) who knows everything can shed some light on it.

Regards

 

[arjunk]

And two gold birds that feed military industrial complexes of the world?
Never

Abandon the political and immortality ambitions of their leaders
Never

All these types posting here and everywhere else are ants to be led by smells of sugar in all forms - be it religious, nationalist or otherwise

Well that may be true. But the point is the Indian govt is capable of spinning literally anything as a victory to pacify the Indian population. So losing Kashmir is not even remotely an existential threat to the Indian state, the way it is for Pakistan.

 

[arjunk]

Hi,

This was once in a lifetime opportunity for the Paf to neuter the IAF completely---.

The mercies of Allah had presented the enemy on a platter to take them out---all at the discretion of the Paf---Paf in total control---.

Never in the history of modern warfare a peer air force was at the mercy of another air force ready to be annihilated once for all---.

Listening to the statements made by the Paf General---I realized that they had no concept what the enemy had in plan.

The Paf was thinking that the enemy will back off with warning shots---.

Tghe problem is that the punjabis have never seen slavery to a different race for 800 years as the hindus have---.

They will obliterate us whenever they get the chance---today---tomorrow and from 50 years from today---.

The only thing Paf could have done is to have delayed it substantially for decades to come---.

Mahmud Ghaznavi---failed 16 times---the indians have only failed 4 times---.

Mahmud Ghaznavi got thrashing of his life 16 time---the indians got beat up pretty bad this time---.

Ghaznavi only needed one chance to succeed---whence he obliterated Somnath---after 16 failures---.

Slobodan Milisevich was a very educated person---played with muslim kids as he grew up---but when he became an adult---old wounds started festering---.

He would dig out the graves of old dead serbians---take out their bpones and claim that they were killed by the muslim invaders / rulers---riled up the serbian nation and slaughtered the muslim natives.

Pakistan is also going to be a victim of that onslaught---people like Gen Bahkshi---Major Gaurav Ariya---etc etc etc---and PM Modi himself---are like Milosevich---trying to wake up their nation---slowly but surely---.

And what did the PAF do---let thirty three 33 Rafales escape---at least they could have taken all the Rafales out---india would have calmed down for 20 years---.

True. Just look at Occupied Kashmir as a preview of what they intend to do with the rest of Pakistan: Settler Colonial genocidal atrocities that outdo even Israeli crimes against humanity in Palestine.

(or really, any country who falls under Indian control -- they hold equal hatred for Whites and Muslims, it's just that they perceive Pakistanis as weaker so they attack us while insincerely sucking up to the whites/gulf arabs and infesting their nations like zionists).

 

[Alex]

Hi,

This was once in a lifetime opportunity for the Paf to neuter the IAF completely---.

The mercies of Allah had presented the enemy on a platter to take them out---all at the discretion of the Paf---Paf in total control---.

Never in the history of modern warfare a peer air force was at the mercy of another air force ready to be annihilated once for all---.

Listening to the statements made by the Paf General---I realized that they had no concept what the enemy had in plan.

The Paf was thinking that the enemy will back off with warning shots---.

Tghe problem is that the punjabis have never seen slavery to a different race for 800 years as the hindus have---.

They will obliterate us whenever they get the chance---today---tomorrow and from 50 years from today---.

The only thing Paf could have done is to have delayed it substantially for decades to come---.

Mahmud Ghaznavi---failed 16 times---the indians have only failed 4 times---.

Mahmud Ghaznavi got thrashing of his life 16 time---the indians got beat up pretty bad this time---.

Ghaznavi only needed one chance to succeed---whence he obliterated Somnath---after 16 failures---.

Slobodan Milisevich was a very educated person---played with muslim kids as he grew up---but when he became an adult---old wounds started festering---.

He would dig out the graves of old dead serbians---take out their bpones and claim that they were killed by the muslim invaders / rulers---riled up the serbian nation and slaughtered the muslim natives.

Pakistan is also going to be a victim of that onslaught---people like Gen Bahkshi---Major Gaurav Ariya---etc etc etc---and PM Modi himself---are like Milosevich---trying to wake up their nation---slowly but surely---.

And what did the PAF do---let thirty three 33 Rafales escape---at least they could have taken all the Rafales out---india would have calmed down for 20 years---.

@MastanKhan .Thank you, Mustan Khan, for speaking the truth. I have been trying to raise similar points for the last few days, but instead of recognising the present and incoming dangers, members here are more interested in calling me Indian.

First, they tried to claim that Pakistan couldn't have known why Indian jets approached Pakistan's borders.
70+ jets fully armed came to shake Pakistanis' hands?
Then the argument is that Pakistan couldn't have attacked the jets before they bombed Pakistan; that would be a pre-emptive strike.
No, that is self-defence. Pakistan is perfectly entitled to defend itself when the enemy sent 70+ jets to attack its civilians, airbases and nuclear sites.
Now that Warnes has tweeted after meeting CAS Sidhu that Pakistan has completely jammed and neutralised Indian assets, people are still not coming to the thinking that Pakistan has the capacity to annihilate IAF but were reluctant.
Why?
I am trying to find that answer, but Pakistanis, instead of reflection, are more interested in throwing abuse, calling names and even warning to throw me out of the forum.
This is a strange behaviour. I am glad; at least you are thinking straight.