From Absolutely Not to America Please?

[PakFactor]

All the figurehead puppets installed and removed as needed are the exactly the same, including IK, those before him, and those after him.

That is the sad reality, like it or not.

Former Prime Minister of Pakistan Zafarullah Khan Jamali said during an interview, "The one who brings you in can just as easily remove you." He's the only one I've seen who had the common sense to step aside when his time was up and quietly go home.

The key difference between Mr. Zafarullah Khan Jamali and others is that he didn't get into an ego match, knowing he didn't have the arms to fight back from the get-go.

The Prime Ministers of Pakistan, including Bhutto and Khan, have never been good politicians. They fail to play the game as it should have been played from the beginning. They want to be the game creator, overstepping their bounds from the start, and not understanding the clear boundaries and established powers and norms.

Another factor that drives the stake into their political hearts is overpromising and underdelivering, not knowing their strengths and weaknesses, and never compensating for their weak areas by bringing competent individuals. They chose to play within the system rather than work on the system, a classic business rule that can be applied here.

 

[Jango007]

Truck ki butty


for the sake of honor of our families of ordinary people, don't waste breath or thoughts on these selfish elites. they are ALL scum.

Imran is a product of that elite group. he is no different to his political opponents, he has shaken hands with them and accepted their money and support when it suited him. too bad for him and his supporters that he lost this war to the crown.

his one big issue is his stubbornness and arrogance, he refuses to talk to his political opponents and that strengthens the establishment, he talks about democracy and theft of his votes but he insists to only talk to establishment on his terms, dismissing the politicians. this has really brought him to a dead end.

So are you saying accept the status quo …. Give up any resistance against the establishment and just accept our fate that we are destined to pay taxes and high electricity bills because Generals need their golf courses to play golf and politicians need vacations in England ?

Sorry sir I fail to see what exactly are you trying to say. One politician with unblemished record of clean political career with not a hint of corruption should be left to its fate and let to rot in jail ?

It is not Imran’s fault that he is the product of elite society … Infact he never claimed to be Gandhi and like Jinnah developed his principles and character from people surrounding him at elite schools and universities .

I myself have grown up with some very rich kid who had a thing or two to teach me . We are the product of our surrounding . Despite all the deficiencies in Western society the sense of accountability and justice is what keeps us afloat . These teachings are passed on from generation to generation and I learned myself growing up with some rich kids in university that there is a hell of difference between the elite in Pakistan and elite here . A son of Chinese Tycoon wore ripped jeans very similar to mine but you would never ever see similar situation in Pakistan . Pakistan is a very Hierarchy society and money talks and everyone therefore aims to acquire wealth by any means necessary .

Here in the West to achieve and become something you don’t need money at all… respect is earned through your work and not necessarily through earning money ..

And that’s what Imran Khan is trying to teach …… nation building through character building not through money one acquires …..

This may be a foreign concept to elite innPakistan who believe inly money can bring fame and respect.

He has spent his life earning respect …. I am a life long supporter of Namal and SK hospital and I donate because he is showing us the light to service and success not TRUCK KI BATTI ….

How ever every elite idiot in Pakistan wants to follow either dollar sign or run away from the country.

Yes he made political blunders by trusting army generals …. He forgot snakes cannot be trusted …. And tried to do Pakistani politics by becoming part of dirty system and he failed terribly ….. because he never expected it to be so dirty and filthy and he didn’t survive like Nawaz and Zardari….

Worse he was labelled as a corrupt …. Makes me laugh when I think about how at fund raising dinner I bought his bat for more money than most elites will ever donate in their life ….. Thats called respect and trust on someone I have never even seen in person .

I am not invested innPakistan and after 38 years here have no relatives or interest innPakistan . But for the sake of people living in Pakistan we need to fight the system so corrupt so evil that any means necessary is justified ….

 

[Distant_Observer]

So are you saying accept the status quo …. Give up any resistance against the establishment and just accept our fate that we are destined to pay taxes and high electricity bills because Generals need their golf courses to play golf and politicians need vacations in England ?

Sorry sir I fail to see what exactly are you trying to say. One politician with unblemished record of clean political career with not a hint of corruption should be left to its fate and let to rot in jail ?

It is not Imran’s fault that he is the product of elite society … Infact he never claimed to be Gandhi and like Jinnah developed his principles and character from people surrounding him at elite schools and universities .

I myself have grown up with some very rich kid who had a thing or two to teach me . We are the product of our surrounding . Despite all the deficiencies in Western society the sense of accountability and justice is what keeps us afloat . These teachings are passed on from generation to generation and I learned myself growing up with some rich kids in university that there is a hell of difference between the elite in Pakistan and elite here . A son of Chinese Tycoon wore ripped jeans very similar to mine but you would never ever see similar situation in Pakistan . Pakistan is a very Hierarchy society and money talks and everyone therefore aims to acquire wealth by any means necessary .

Here in the West to achieve and become something you don’t need money at all… respect is earned through your work and not necessarily through earning money ..

And that’s what Imran Khan is trying to teach …… nation building through character building not through money one acquires …..

This may be a foreign concept to elite innPakistan who believe inly money can bring fame and respect.

He has spent his life earning respect …. I am a life long supporter of Namal and SK hospital and I donate because he is showing us the light to service and success not TRUCK KI BATTI ….

How ever every elite idiot in Pakistan wants to follow either dollar sign or run away from the country.

Yes he made political blunders by trusting army generals …. He forgot snakes cannot be trusted …. And tried to do Pakistani politics by becoming part of dirty system and he failed terribly ….. because he never expected it to be so dirty and filthy and he didn’t survive like Nawaz and Zardari….

Worse he was labelled as a corrupt …. Makes me laugh when I think about how at fund raising dinner I bought his bat for more money than most elites will ever donate in their life ….. Thats called respect and trust on someone I have never even seen in person .

I am not invested innPakistan and after 38 years here have no relatives or interest innPakistan . But for the sake of people living in Pakistan we need to fight the system so corrupt so evil that any means necessary is justified ….

PTI has been in power in KPK since 2014. Where is this magical transformation?

How did Buzdar perform in Punjab?

All of this is just dreamer talk. IK fanboyism. Celebrity worship.

On the ground PTI is worse than PPP.

VONC proved he didn't even have loyalty.

 

[Dalit]

PTI has been in power in KPK since 2014. Where is this magical transformation?

How did Buzdar perform in Punjab?

All of this is just dreamer talk. IK fanboyism. Celebrity worship.

On the ground PTI is worse than PPP.

Has PDM rule transformed Pakistan? PDM was brought into power by Bajwa. PDM is today still in power. What success has PDM brought for Pakistan?

 

[mythbuster]

Why should that be a problem? The expats don't live in Pakistan.

Of course Pakistanis living inside Pakistan also support Imran Khan in great numbers.

Then ask the expats why their chadis are getting in a knot.....in Pakistan numbers don't matter it's the gun that matters.

 

[Jango007]

PTI has been in power in KPK since 2014. Where is this magical transformation?

How did Buzdar perform in Punjab?

All of this is just dreamer talk. IK fanboyism. Celebrity worship.

On the ground PTI is worse than PPP.

VONC proved he didn't even have loyalty.

He was taking about people like you….

 

[Dalit]

Then ask the expats why their chadis are getting in a knot.....in Pakistan numbers don't matter it's the gun that matters.

The expats don't have any influence in Pakistan. It doesn't make any difference if expats support IK from the outside.

The only reason why the generals and PDM are concerned is because they understand the support IK has among the people of Pakistan. Make no mistake whatsoever. IK is still today the most popular leader of Pakistan.

 

[mythbuster]

So are you saying accept the status quo …. Give up any resistance against the establishment and just accept our fate that we are destined to pay taxes and high electricity bills because Generals need their golf courses to play golf and politicians need vacations in England ?

Sorry sir I fail to see what exactly are you trying to say. One politician with unblemished record of clean political career with not a hint of corruption should be left to its fate and let to rot in jail ?

It is not Imran’s fault that he is the product of elite society … Infact he never claimed to be Gandhi and like Jinnah developed his principles and character from people surrounding him at elite schools and universities .

I myself have grown up with some very rich kid who had a thing or two to teach me . We are the product of our surrounding . Despite all the deficiencies in Western society the sense of accountability and justice is what keeps us afloat . These teachings are passed on from generation to generation and I learned myself growing up with some rich kids in university that there is a hell of difference between the elite in Pakistan and elite here . A son of Chinese Tycoon wore ripped jeans very similar to mine but you would never ever see similar situation in Pakistan . Pakistan is a very Hierarchy society and money talks and everyone therefore aims to acquire wealth by any means necessary .

Here in the West to achieve and become something you don’t need money at all… respect is earned through your work and not necessarily through earning money ..

And that’s what Imran Khan is trying to teach …… nation building through character building not through money one acquires …..

This may be a foreign concept to elite innPakistan who believe inly money can bring fame and respect.

He has spent his life earning respect …. I am a life long supporter of Namal and SK hospital and I donate because he is showing us the light to service and success not TRUCK KI BATTI ….

How ever every elite idiot in Pakistan wants to follow either dollar sign or run away from the country.

Yes he made political blunders by trusting army generals …. He forgot snakes cannot be trusted …. And tried to do Pakistani politics by becoming part of dirty system and he failed terribly ….. because he never expected it to be so dirty and filthy and he didn’t survive like Nawaz and Zardari….

Worse he was labelled as a corrupt …. Makes me laugh when I think about how at fund raising dinner I bought his bat for more money than most elites will ever donate in their life ….. Thats called respect and trust on someone I have never even seen in person .

I am not invested innPakistan and after 38 years here have no relatives or interest innPakistan . But for the sake of people living in Pakistan we need to fight the system so corrupt so evil that any means necessary is justified ….

You hang out with rich kids and wear tattered jeans ....man , you are so cool ...every drivel of yours shall be taken as pearl of wisdom.

 

[Distant_Observer]

Has PDM rule transformed Pakistan? PDM was brought into power by Bajwa.

If you compare PDM rule for 3 years and PTI, PDM has done a far stronger job.

Ties with US/Russia/China are stronger than ever. Diplomacy is in over drive with many countries. I sense there is more of a method now, a direction. SMQ was good but he never really got the buy in.

I am particularly pleased with their tough stance on border security and illegal immigration.

Macro is heading in a positive direction. Numbers look promising. Deals are being made.

Government is quietly getting on with it. They are on the same page with the army. There is a sense of calm.

 

[Dalit]

If you compare PDM rule for 3 years and PTI, PDM has done a far stronger job.

Ties with US/Russia/China are stronger than ever. Diplomacy is in over drive with many countries. I sense there is more of a method now, a direction. SMQ was good but he never really got the buy in.

I am particularly pleased with their tough stance on border security and illegal migration.

Macro is heading in a positive direction. Numbers look promising. Deals are being made.

Government is quietly getting on with it. Relationship with the army is on the same page. There is a sense of calm.

It hasn't done anything for the economy or the ordinary people in Pakistan. The people of Pakistan are still in the same condition with barely any jobs. Cost of living is extremely high. People cannot pay their exorbitant bills. PDM is still receiving IMF loans. Without remittances, PDM would be in even greater trouble.

In other words, these supposed gains haven't benefitted ordinary Pakistanis.

 

[Distant_Observer]

It hasn't done anything for the economy or the ordinary people in Pakistan. The people of Pakistan are still in the same condition with barely any jobs. Cost of living is extremely high.

In other words, these supposedly small gains haven't benefitted ordinary Pakistanis.

This will take decades to address. Need stable governance, investment with consisent policy over a long time. WB money is coming next year so this will happen hopefully.

By the same logic, PTI has had KPK since 2014 and they have not done anything with it. Even the literacy rate declined

I think PPP are absolutely incompetent but PTI are just as bad.

 

[Dalit]

This will take decades to address.

By the same logic, PTI has had KPK since 2014 and they have not done anything with it. Even the literacy rate declined

I think PPP are absolutely incompetent but PTI are just as bad.

You are willing to give decades to PDM, but accuse PTI of not achieving excellence in a matter of few years. That doesn't make sense.

 

[Distant_Observer]

You are willing to give decades to PDM, but accuse PTI of not achieving excellence in a matter of few years. That doesn't make sense.

Not excellence, progress. PTI has had KPK for 10 years and its still a mess.

His idea of fixing KPK's terrorism problem was resettling TTP fighters and "forgiving" them

With the developments since last few years, Punjab has started progressing very rapidly. I wish to see similar progress in KPK.

 

[Respect4Respect]

but, seeking American help to get political relief puts PTI in same league as Noon league

okay, then give PTI half a million troops, tanks, and jets if you expect them to fight a war with the generals. What do you expect from a political party?
what could Asim Munir do to millions of voters without the backing of the armed forces? if he's a real man then he should come forward and contest elections against Imran Khan instead of hiding behind the millitary...my bad IK is way out of his league, he can try contesting against Zulfi Bukhari instead.

 

[El Sidd]

Worse he was labelled as a corrupt …. Makes me laugh when I think about how at fund raising dinner I bought his bat for more money than most elites will ever donate in their life ….. Thats called respect and trust on someone I have never even seen in person .

Do you play with that bat? How much was the tax write off and what returns are expected?

Here in the West to achieve and become something you don’t need money at all… respect is earned through your work and not necessarily through earning money ..

Really? What do people in the west want to achieve differently from anyone else in the world?

We are the product of our surrounding

Are you suggesting that since Mr. Niazi was surrounded by corrupt people that he became one himself? Very brave of you, forum members will subject you to some ridicule for suggesting such logical thing.