From Absolutely Not to America Please?

[VCheng]

@VCheng, did he quote your quote from Kipling's to me from the Gaza threat and used "never shall the twain meet," but not realizing it doesn't apply in this case, as all Pakistanis are subject to Pakistani laws and voting rights, and uniformly apply.

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You are probably correct.

 

[mythbuster]

@VCheng, did he quote your quote from Kipling's to me from the Gaza threat and used "never shall the twain meet," but not realizing it doesn't apply in this case, as all Pakistanis are subject to Pakistani laws and voting rights, and uniformly apply.

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I didn't read what you are alluding to .

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Trump makes America great again. IK makes Pakistanis fools again.

Its shameful to go against a country, accuse them of everything in the dark and then lobby to get their senator's support. If that didn't work, hire another lobby firm paying millions of dollars per year. Sadly that didn't fly either.

Zulfi or whoever, they need to understand America. When there is a President in the office, he automatically acts like the party head. No matter how many lunch and testifying you do, not ONE senator is going to pick up the phone to call Trump because they already know Trump had lunch with FM Munir. It's been check mated already at the highest level. Happy eating, come again like the Chinese restaurant owners usually say!

that was brutal but true commentary about how American politics and diplomacy works.
hard to swallow for those who have elevated Imran to Sainthood and some even grade him as more famous than prophets, with such mindset you cant really debate or argue, just leave them in peace.

American multi media advertisers and senators are not complaining though.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I understand, and I have been making the distinction between reality and legality for a long time. But, it is still no reason to merely state that IK (or anyone else's) followers are not qualified to vote.

the elections in Pakistan are far from perfect, to be sure, but one cannot pick and choose which results to accept and which to reject simply on the basis of whether one's own preferred candidate has been declared the winner.

Those who are not accepting the current setup were happy to accept when the same system brought IK into power, and that is simply wrong. If what brought IK into power was okay, then what brought the present setup into power is also okay.

even the criticism of generals is qualified. in a parallel universe somewhere General Faiz has succeeded, the PTI supporters are singing Pakistan army praise, because the version of Imran in that universe is in Bani Gala.

 

[Olympus81]

Its a futile argument, a circular argument of sort.

Generals have been subverting the constitution since time immemorial.

Politicians are expected to toe the Generals line or else they are overthrown or face a section of people’s wrath for rocking the boat too much.

When the same politicians go abroad and raise their voice for democracy, they are stamped as traitors.

And then the good old Generals, the know it all, pick one and dump the other, and the cycle goes on.

So keep at it. Good going.

 

[mythbuster]

even the criticism of generals is qualified. in a parallel universe somewhere General Faiz has succeeded, the PTI supporters are singing Pakistan army praise, because the version of Imran in that universe is in Bani Gala.

Alarm bells started ringing when intentions of IK and Faiz to create one party state on the Chinese model came out of the closet ( don't know if it's right term to use )...... personally , I am not against one party state but my problem was /is imran's intellectual capacity and the influence of his wife in the affairs of the state .

 

[VCheng]

even the criticism of generals is qualified. in a parallel universe somewhere General Faiz has succeeded, the PTI supporters are singing Pakistan army praise, because the version of Imran in that universe is in Bani Gala.

Most of PDF knows just how harsh my criticism of the military and their illegal acts has been over the years. However, when they do their actual jobs, like in the recent issues with India, they must also be supported, without question, as I said in my article posted here previously.

Basing one's patriotism on whether one's chosen demagogue is ascendant or not is a fool's game, and if not for the general membership here, it is the responsibility of the title holders and management to show the better way such issues and disagreements must be handled, if we are to improve the system and help the country that we all love.

Otherwise, we will remain a condemned people forever to repeat the same mistakes of our collective past.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Alarm bells started ringing when intentions of IK and Faiz to create one party state on the Chinese model came out of the closet ( don't know if it's right term to use )...... personally , I am not against one party state but my problem was /is imran's intellectual capacity and the influence of his wife in the affairs of the state .

we are not fit for Western democracy, if any politician, tycoon a general or a local warlord can bring stability and has the capacity to run the country then I am all up for GCC, Turkish Erdogan etc. model. where the military forces have a constitutional role and part in governance.

 

[VCheng]

where the military forces have a constitutional role and part in governance.

If you recall, I argued for a hybrid system many years ago on PDF, asking for a proper formalized way where three portfolios are military personnel: foreign, finance and defence, and the rest with the civilian side. That is the only way existing realities can be accepted while maintaining a workable, legal system with proper accountability.

 

[Watandar]

Alarm bells started ringing when intentions of IK and Faiz to create one party state on the Chinese model came out of the closet ( don't know if it's right term to use )...... personally , I am not against one party state but my problem was /is imran's intellectual capacity and the influence of his wife in the affairs of the state .

A one party state with Imran Khan as permanent President and Faiz Hameed as permanent Army Chief would have had horrible outcomes. I am glad Establishment decided to cut their losses and Bajwa cleaned up his own mess by tossing Imran Khan and Faiz Hameed aside. Thats not an endorsement of Establishment political engineering projects, which have done nothing but harm Pakistan.

 

[Watandar]

we are not fit for Western democracy, if any politician, tycoon a general or a local warlord can bring stability and has the capacity to run the country then I am all up for GCC, Turkish Erdogan etc. model. where the military forces have a constitutional role and part in governance.

we are absolutely fit for democracy , it was what Quaid-e-Azam wanted and if the 1973 constitution had been followed in letter and spirit, and political culture and institutions allowed to evolve and mature, Pakistan would have been infinitely better off today.

I dont know how anyone after failed Zia, Musharraf and multiple hybrid nizams still clings to the technocrat savior nonsense.

Countries far less developed than Pakistan have managed to build democratic system of government and are doing much better today, I dont know why people think Pakistanis are some sort of abnormal beings that they can only thrive under a benevolent autocracy.

 

[dabbu]

Stop the cringe chest thumping man. You guys don't waste a single opportunity to sing your own songs. LOL This topic isn't even about parsis.

"Saaaar, look at us. Parsis and other minority communities chose India over Pakistan and are living happily after... It is rivers of honey in Hindustan."

You guys have been programmed to hate Pakistan for almost anything and everything. Even the so-called moderates are always jumping in and selling BS on PDF. We have become so accustomed to this sneaky BS.

Might be cringe if untrue, it is not.

Fyi parsis chose india over foreign conquests by escaping persia to indian as a safe haven, and have flourished there.

The concept of Pakistan at that time was 7 centuries away, so let's not be cringe making it about a late late 1947 Pakistan.

 

[dabbu]

That Parsi paapar was lucky to be at the right position at the right time.

When you sell the bat, it would be more than what you paid for. So i don't know why you want others to look at your investment as some work of art.

Men of substance like Manekshaw grab opportunities to become written in history, how many else can claim to be creators of one of the largest nations on earth.

 

[El Sidd]

Men of substance like Manekshaw grab opportunities to become written in history, how many else can claim to be creators of one of the largest nations on earth.

This is some imagination. Creation of Bangladesh is either attributed to ambition of a Pakistani or lack thereof of other. Nowhere does the Parsi enter the conversation.

 

[SaadH]

A one party state with Imran Khan as permanent President and Faiz Hameed as permanent Army Chief would have had horrible outcomes. I am glad Establishment decided to cut their losses and Bajwa cleaned up his own mess by tossing Imran Khan and Faiz Hameed aside. Thats not an endorsement of Establishment political engineering projects, which have done nothing but harm Pakistan.

There's no evidence of any of this anywhere...

In fact Nawaz Sharif has pretty much done the exact thing being in power for the last 35 years and having appointed all of the COAS during this time.

It's called projection something our GHQ jamedars have learnt well from their zionist masters...accusing others of doing the exact thing they are doing/done.