Z-10 ME/P deliveries Updates: Pakistan Army Aviation.

[Baibers_1260]

Drones are cited as being one of the primary drivers of Russian 2022 offensive failure.
TB2s completely left entire columns trapped.
65-70% of russian armor was 7000 armored vehicles.

Versus Russian lost 100 helos in the first year.

Yes
Extremely poor tactics played a part but at the end it’s easier to lose 100 TB-2s or 200 FPVs.

FPVs are cheaper, harder to detect, and require no crew risk. The modern battlefield now favors low-cost, precision drone strikes over legacy air assault tactics.

Both Russia and Ukraine have been using helicopters to down low altitude fast Kamikaze enemy drones.

1. Russians have been using Ka-52 Hokum helicopters ( using a hammer to kill a bug );
2. Ukrainians have been using Mil 17s with door gunners ( What a waste!);

The kamekaze drones are frequently accompanied by target acquisition drones that communicate the flight paths of the helicopters to nearby fighter planes or ground air defenses.The helicopters are taken out. Some drones have short range air- to-air missiles which again target the attacking helicopters The attrition of helicopters and crew in both Ukraine and Russia is huge.
The Ukrainians are getting innovative and going "low-tech", using single engine propeller driven agricultural pesticide spraying aircraft (PZL-106 Kruk) , jury-rigged equipped with auto-cannons or machine guns, Flying low, below most long range radar detection systems, relatively fast, and somewhat aerobatic, these planes flown by skilled pilots have proven effective against drones. Ukraine has very few of these planes but the idea is sound.

The Russians have been quick to learn, using far more capable Yak 152 trainers instead, Even though Russians face the same shortage of such aircraft they do have some manufacturing capabilities to manufacture more of these and use them (if they can get sufficient numbers of pilots of course ).

Which suggests that in the light of the recent mass drone attacks by India could Pakistan use its Super Mashaks to take down these drones? Calling on retired fighter pilots no longer capable of flying high performance jets to help, would elicit an overwhelming response.

 

[ARMalik]

Hi,

A lot changes with the changing environment across the border---.

The J10 higher numbers were real---but the overwhelming results of the battle management systems of Shaheen series of exercises changed all that---.

Same with the JF17 BLK3's---the expectations was of a higher number just to survive---but then the results and the availability of the PL15 changed all that

I am surprised that you kids cannot read what was written on the big screen right in front of your faces---.

You kids have no learning capabilities---you have very very poor visuals---.

A weapons and a battle expert can visualize what the reality is---.

See---you are not the only one---the Pak military fooled the rest of the world as well---.

Americans did not believe that either---so they let the indians carry on till they found out that the indians were being sent to obliviion---.

The israelis with all their intelligence did not believe it either---it was written right in the skies what Paf was capable of---they too got fooled---.

And why---because their main man Deino told everyone---pakistan got nothing---it ain't getting nothing---it will have nothing to fight with---.

Why should everyone know the timeline---? This is not a frigging pizza hut that you need a delivery time---or a bus station that you need an arrival time---.

This is a small nation standing against a 5 times larger enemy---and it will use every trick in the book to sabotage their thinking---so grow up son---think like a man---.

It is also your job to sabotage the enemy's plans against the motherland---.

The thinking of some here is absolutely hilirious. They expect the Military to PUBLISH everything they have, give them the exact numbers of weapons, declare the Weapons capabilities on their website so that these online warriors can have a chat about it.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi,

A lot changes with the changing environment across the border---.

The J10 higher numbers were real---but the overwhelming results of the battle management systems of Shaheen series of exercises changed all that---.

Same with the JF17 BLK3's---the expectations was of a higher number just to survive---but then the results and the availability of the PL15 changed all that

I am surprised that you kids cannot read what was written on the big screen right in front of your faces---.

You kids have no learning capabilities---you have very very poor visuals---.

A weapons and a battle expert can visualize what the reality is---.

See---you are not the only one---the Pak military fooled the rest of the world as well---.

Americans did not believe that either---so they let the indians carry on till they found out that the indians were being sent to obliviion---.

The israelis with all their intelligence did not believe it either---it was written right in the skies what Paf was capable of---they too got fooled---.

And why---because their main man Deino told everyone---pakistan got nothing---it ain't getting nothing---it will have nothing to fight with---.

Why should everyone know the timeline---? This is not a frigging pizza hut that you need a delivery time---or a bus station that you need an arrival time---.

This is a small nation standing against a 5 times larger enemy---and it will use every trick in the book to sabotage their thinking---so grow up son---think like a man---.

It is also your job to sabotage the enemy's plans against the motherland---.

Even a naive folk with an average IQ understands the PAF is no walk over! A man is known by the company he keeps. The PAF's genes in its DNA were molded by the USAF. And, its best buddies are the Chinese and Turkish MICs....

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Can someone just 100% confirm? Is this social media chat or are these birds now in Pakistan?

Not sure if its in Pakistan yet or not but it has to arrive one day. A question of when not if. The only reason it became controversial because of fanboys repeating over and over again, that its coming next week continuously for last 5 years. One day it had or has to come as decision was already made. When Turkish ATAK deal couldn't went through because of engine blocked by US, then it was obvious that Z-10ME is the remaining choice. As it were even seen flying over Islamabad (and participated in the parade few years back to)

 

[ARMalik]

Hi,

Just got punished for saying that Gen 'D' Bakhshi is a spy---is a failure in assessment---. 2 Pts warning given---.

Not fair at all. Why would such comments carry 2 Pts? In fact you should be given 2-extra points for saying this.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Z-10 ME are here they would be announced soon. They arrived few days back in parts and are being assembeled here. As for J-10 C number you quoted after its great performance in recent conflict it makes sense. I know you are just making fun but J-10 C final number would be close to 100 in my opinion. As for J-35 they would also come soon. What is JCF?

@Zarvan You are a good innocent guy. As one can see with their own eyes, the numbers and timelines you and some other folks were spreading all over the place. That's where credibility lies, you must have to follow those twitter accounts, those websites, those people who are not into jingoism and exaggerations. As for J-10C/J-35 stuff its proven that I am absolutely ACCURATE and you and the other old fellow were absolutely hilariously inaccurate. I will find and share a historic post by you (later this week when I get time) on relevant threads that kind of numbers you guys were telling. But, You are atleast humble, you don't pass out big statements and are a gentleman. But the other guy named as @MastanKhan who is perhaps least knowledgeable in this forum, but he talks with absolute ego, even can't tolerate a slight difference of opinion. Attacks anyone who's trying to talk sense.

@MastanKhan Don't get angry, learn to listen to others opinions. I have no personal vendetta against you. We don't even know each other personally. In the end, we both wants whats best for Pakistan. There could be many things where we could align, it will be lot healthier discussions if we think on those lines. I challenge you to specifically mention with logic and facts on a single thing where I am wrong. I don't even know what's that long post was about saying "you kids have no learning capabilities". How on earth you assumed that everyone else is a kid? . What's that tantarum was for??

Perhaps because I pointed out your lies in the other thread when you claimed with all your glory that Type54As are always out in the seas patrolling and are hardly ever in the port. I gave out all 4 ships satellite photos in the port instantly and told you that its not an accurate statement, perhaps you exaggerated. For Patrolling PN use other assets more frequently then these ones, these are mostly found in ports or long visits in every iteration of satellite image updates. It was a simple disagreement and your reply was one liner "You made my laugh". Secondly you also boldly claimed that indian warships are inferior to ours. I asked you to explain and how you'd compare AD of tughrils with their modern ones. You chickened out and said "I read a report". Don't make claims which you cannot back up ever. Don't go here and there and assume things on your own. Don't want to hear the rant that "you guys" thought PAF would be this that... WHO told you?? I was of the opinion that PAF could beat the hell out of indians because I understand that China is at cutting edge of technology, its the only nation to have its own space station, its advancements in every field are huge, so assuming that they will be inferior in defense technologies is foolishness. so I'd always believed that PL-15/J-10C combo would outclass anything french indians had. Why you generalize everything? and put everyone in the same basket? Remain focused on the very specific points where discussion going on. Its not necessary that If I agree with you on one point that means i will agree with you on everything. if you have a large ego, making bold claims without an ounce of logic or facts, its still okay as long as you don't disrespect others.

I really admire posts by majority of the forum members especially like @Quwa @Lion @Deino @Oscar @RescueRanger @arslank01 @Rationalist @Michael there are many others, many don't agree with each other all the time. But it does not mean we create a beef in our minds as everyone have valueable opinions. Most of us are either Pakistanis or friend of Pakistanis. Most wants best for us. Some are more realistic & critical, but some are very jingoistic, Being realistic & little critical is a good attribute. It does not mean that such people are any less patriotic they you are.

Cheers!

 

[Pak-Warrior]

The thinking of some here is absolutely hilirious. They expect the Military to PUBLISH everything they have, give them the exact numbers of weapons, declare the Weapons capabilities on their website so that these online warriors can have a chat about it.

Who exactly said to publish everything? You and Mastan are assuming that "some" people want to publish timelines. WHO are these "some" people?

It seems the fanboys are the ones you are accusing of. As those are the ones who were doing tantrums for last 5 yrs that Z-10MEs are coming just "Next" week. While grown ups knew exactly that these helis will come but in time. Whenever they are ready, whenever modifications are done. I don't even understand what's the fuss all about? What's the point of these posts? Its absolutely hillarious. Point a single thing. I challenge, where I was wrong. If assuming I am included in those "some" folks.

So please be realistic my friend. You developed beef against me, when I reacted at your reply-post with laughing emoji. Malik Sahab, tbh, I have seen other of your posts, many of your posts reflects the same opinion which I have had. You perhaps misunderstood my that post completely. Because your reply was perhaps to a different post. I was saying that Pak should get newer 54Bs from China if required instead the older ones. You said almost the same thing but somehow got ignited. What's the difference of opinion?? Even if it is, let's just respect each other opinions. Shall we?? : )

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I really admire posts by majority of the forum members especially like @Quwa @Lion @Deino @Oscar @RescueRanger @arslank01 @Rationalist @Michael there are many others, many don't agree with each other all the time. But it does not mean we create a beef in our minds as everyone have valueable opinions. Most of us are either Pakistanis or friend of Pakistanis. Most wants best for us. Some are more realistic & critical, but some are very jingoistic, Being realistic & little critical is a good attribute. It does not mean that such people are any less patriotic they you are.

Cheers!

Much appreciated brother.

 

[ARMalik]

Who exactly said to publish everything? You and Mastan are assuming that "some" people want to publish timelines. WHO are these "some" people?

It seems the fanboys are the ones you are accusing of. As those are the ones who were doing tantrums for last 5 yrs that Z-10MEs are coming just "Next" week. While grown ups knew exactly that these helis will come but in time. Whenever they are ready, whenever modifications are done. I don't even understand what's the fuss all about? What's the point of these posts? Its absolutely hillarious. Point a single thing. I challenge, where I was wrong. If assuming I am included in those "some" folks.

So please be realistic my friend. You developed beef against me, when I reacted at your reply-post with laughing emoji. Malik Sahab, tbh, I have seen other of your posts, many of your posts reflects the same opinion which I have had. You perhaps misunderstood my that post completely. Because your reply was perhaps to a different post. I was saying that Pak should get newer 54Bs from China if required instead the older ones. You said almost the same thing but somehow got ignited. What's the difference of opinion?? Even if it is, let's just respect each other opinions. Shall we?? : )

Hey dude, my post was general in nature and reflected what I observe on the forum, which is, a general expectation by many that the Military will absolutely declare all information about its Military assets. It was not directed at anymore and specially not you. So all is good.

 

[Oscar]

@Zarvan You are a good innocent guy. As one can see with their own eyes, the numbers and timelines you and some other folks were spreading all over the place. That's where credibility lies, you must have to follow those twitter accounts, those websites, those people who are not into jingoism and exaggerations. As for J-10C/J-35 stuff its proven that I am absolutely ACCURATE and you and the other old fellow were absolutely hilariously inaccurate. I will find and share a historic post by you (later this week when I get time) on relevant threads that kind of numbers you guys were telling. But, You are atleast humble, you don't pass out big statements and are a gentleman. But the other guy named as @MastanKhan who is perhaps least knowledgeable in this forum, but he talks with absolute ego, even can't tolerate a slight difference of opinion. Attacks anyone who's trying to talk sense.

@MastanKhan Don't get angry, learn to listen to others opinions. I have no personal vendetta against you. We don't even know each other personally. In the end, we both wants whats best for Pakistan. There could be many things where we could align, it will be lot healthier discussions if we think on those lines. I challenge you to specifically mention with logic and facts on a single thing where I am wrong. I don't even know what's that long post was about saying "you kids have no learning capabilities". How on earth you assumed that everyone else is a kid? . What's that tantarum was for??

Perhaps because I pointed out your lies in the other thread when you claimed with all your glory that Type54As are always out in the seas patrolling and are hardly ever in the port. I gave out all 4 ships satellite photos in the port instantly and told you that its not an accurate statement, perhaps you exaggerated. For Patrolling PN use other assets more frequently then these ones, these are mostly found in ports or long visits in every iteration of satellite image updates. It was a simple disagreement and your reply was one liner "You made my laugh". Secondly you also boldly claimed that indian warships are inferior to ours. I asked you to explain and how you'd compare AD of tughrils with their modern ones. You chickened out and said "I read a report". Don't make claims which you cannot back up ever. Don't go here and there and assume things on your own. Don't want to hear the rant that "you guys" thought PAF would be this that... WHO told you?? I was of the opinion that PAF could beat the hell out of indians because I understand that China is at cutting edge of technology, its the only nation to have its own space station, its advancements in every field are huge, so assuming that they will be inferior in defense technologies is foolishness. so I'd always believed that PL-15/J-10C combo would outclass anything french indians had. Why you generalize everything? and put everyone in the same basket? Remain focused on the very specific points where discussion going on. Its not necessary that If I agree with you on one point that means i will agree with you on everything. if you have a large ego, making bold claims without an ounce of logic or facts, its still okay as long as you don't disrespect others.

I really admire posts by majority of the forum members especially like @Quwa @Lion @Deino @Oscar @RescueRanger @arslank01 @Rationalist @Michael there are many others, many don't agree with each other all the time. But it does not mean we create a beef in our minds as everyone have valueable opinions. Most of us are either Pakistanis or friend of Pakistanis. Most wants best for us. Some are more realistic & critical, but some are very jingoistic, Being realistic & little critical is a good attribute. It does not mean that such people are any less patriotic they you are.

Cheers!

When you assign more value to the 1s and 0s here then to your actual lives. You are tacitly admitting that your actual life has much less achievement, satisfaction and meaning to you than acting all tough and stubborn online.

Unless you can put this place on a resume or are at the least getting paid for it - agreeing to disagree is the best way to go.

If you make money from writing on such matters and it’s linked to your livelihood - perhaps then it makes sense to defend your repute.

Even then, who are you defending it against also matters.
I for one am not arguing closing why my methods for closing $MM deals with someone who potentially sells Kurkure packets on the street.

 

[Windjammer]

I wonder if this gift wrapped package is destined for Pakistan !

 

[ghazi52]

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[Zarvan]

@Zarvan You are a good innocent guy. As one can see with their own eyes, the numbers and timelines you and some other folks were spreading all over the place. That's where credibility lies, you must have to follow those twitter accounts, those websites, those people who are not into jingoism and exaggerations. As for J-10C/J-35 stuff its proven that I am absolutely ACCURATE and you and the other old fellow were absolutely hilariously inaccurate. I will find and share a historic post by you (later this week when I get time) on relevant threads that kind of numbers you guys were telling. But, You are atleast humble, you don't pass out big statements and are a gentleman. But the other guy named as @MastanKhan who is perhaps least knowledgeable in this forum, but he talks with absolute ego, even can't tolerate a slight difference of opinion. Attacks anyone who's trying to talk sense.

@MastanKhan Don't get angry, learn to listen to others opinions. I have no personal vendetta against you. We don't even know each other personally. In the end, we both wants whats best for Pakistan. There could be many things where we could align, it will be lot healthier discussions if we think on those lines. I challenge you to specifically mention with logic and facts on a single thing where I am wrong. I don't even know what's that long post was about saying "you kids have no learning capabilities". How on earth you assumed that everyone else is a kid? . What's that tantarum was for??

Perhaps because I pointed out your lies in the other thread when you claimed with all your glory that Type54As are always out in the seas patrolling and are hardly ever in the port. I gave out all 4 ships satellite photos in the port instantly and told you that its not an accurate statement, perhaps you exaggerated. For Patrolling PN use other assets more frequently then these ones, these are mostly found in ports or long visits in every iteration of satellite image updates. It was a simple disagreement and your reply was one liner "You made my laugh". Secondly you also boldly claimed that indian warships are inferior to ours. I asked you to explain and how you'd compare AD of tughrils with their modern ones. You chickened out and said "I read a report". Don't make claims which you cannot back up ever. Don't go here and there and assume things on your own. Don't want to hear the rant that "you guys" thought PAF would be this that... WHO told you?? I was of the opinion that PAF could beat the hell out of indians because I understand that China is at cutting edge of technology, its the only nation to have its own space station, its advancements in every field are huge, so assuming that they will be inferior in defense technologies is foolishness. so I'd always believed that PL-15/J-10C combo would outclass anything french indians had. Why you generalize everything? and put everyone in the same basket? Remain focused on the very specific points where discussion going on. Its not necessary that If I agree with you on one point that means i will agree with you on everything. if you have a large ego, making bold claims without an ounce of logic or facts, its still okay as long as you don't disrespect others.

I really admire posts by majority of the forum members especially like @Quwa @Lion @Deino @Oscar @RescueRanger @arslank01 @Rationalist @Michael there are many others, many don't agree with each other all the time. But it does not mean we create a beef in our minds as everyone have valueable opinions. Most of us are either Pakistanis or friend of Pakistanis. Most wants best for us. Some are more realistic & critical, but some are very jingoistic, Being realistic & little critical is a good attribute. It does not mean that such people are any less patriotic they you are.

Cheers!

Dude please you have no idea how many times I have been proven right and so has @MastanKhan. Those who know knows. Z 10 are here. Pakistan is buying more J 10 and also J 35 will come soon.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I wonder if this gift wrapped package is destined for Pakistan !

View attachment 135471

No. I have seen this picture many years ago.

 

[Zarvan]

Dude please you have no idea how many times I have been proven right and so has @MastanKhan. Those who know knows. Z 10 are here. Pakistan is buying more J 10 and also J 35 will come soon.

@Pak-Warrior The sudden rumors of J 35 not being ready and all that are pure BS. The issue is Government jumped the gun and announced news of HQ 19 and KJ 500 which was supposed to be kept hidden for sometimes.