TAC
Registered Member
Well u know the numbers a big one when India confirms ‘losses’ but says ‘numbers don’t matter’
India Lucky Not To Lose More Than Four Rafales
- Thread starter Windjammer
- Start date
TAC
Registered Member
‘No clear evidence’ of downed Ra-fail and at least 3 other top of the line IAF jets??!!!! Have u got your eyes closed and fingers in ears Rakesh?
Aside from the substantial video / pictorial evidence, eye witnesses, reporting by India’s own media from the scenes, the likes of Washington Post, New York Times, The Economist quoting independent credible sources is ‘no clear evidence’???!
Iether the desperate need to cope blinds you to reality or you are an outright lier. Probably combination of both.
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Master Chief
Trusted Member
Deny the dirty half dozen first.
Then we will entertain your hyperbole fallacy.
Yasser76
Elite Member
Not for anin trolls, cope harder
Yasser76
Elite Member
I didn't give an opinion though, and that response typical to Jeets-in denial.
Where's the evidence, that's a genuine question. PAF hasn't given any in fact for most or all of their claims.
Photos, foreign officials, French intelligence, PAF.
If it is raining and yiou are getting wet you will still deny it. Absolutely no pint entertaining you anymore.
The Economist or "Callsignmaverick" on PDF.
Guess who the world will veer towards....
Oscar
Moderator
The latest AFM issue has some interesting opinions.
Most importantly it does make the VERY VALID point.
Indian political and military objectives were extremely muddled that led to not only poor threat assessments (although that is purely poor preparation) but also very confused RoEs initially.
While AFM leaves in ambiguous position regarding if the very accurate and precise Indian strikes were just messaging or many of the systems were intercepted - it is clear on the Pakistani side that while successful interceptions happened - what got through made its damage and is verifiable.
This goes against all other claims of “Bunyan al Marsoos” and UAVs over Dehli etc.
With all due respect to saying “for a reason we are keeping quiet”
When it comes to plain perception war and morale without clear proof of result you have nothing except hollow claims.
Wrecks are verifiable and clear BDA like Israel or US showed for Iran better especially when you claiming you had complete air superiority.
India doesn’t claim that at all and they were perfectly happy grounded behind 300km of zones to execute textbook low level attacks or launching Brahmos.
And while overall insignificant except Bholari - they showed some proof which so far other than typical establishment twitter handles or overzealous osint claimants merging some burning videos with altered satellite images - Pakistan has nothing to show.
Most importantly it does make the VERY VALID point.
Indian political and military objectives were extremely muddled that led to not only poor threat assessments (although that is purely poor preparation) but also very confused RoEs initially.
While AFM leaves in ambiguous position regarding if the very accurate and precise Indian strikes were just messaging or many of the systems were intercepted - it is clear on the Pakistani side that while successful interceptions happened - what got through made its damage and is verifiable.
This goes against all other claims of “Bunyan al Marsoos” and UAVs over Dehli etc.
With all due respect to saying “for a reason we are keeping quiet”
When it comes to plain perception war and morale without clear proof of result you have nothing except hollow claims.
Wrecks are verifiable and clear BDA like Israel or US showed for Iran better especially when you claiming you had complete air superiority.
India doesn’t claim that at all and they were perfectly happy grounded behind 300km of zones to execute textbook low level attacks or launching Brahmos.
And while overall insignificant except Bholari - they showed some proof which so far other than typical establishment twitter handles or overzealous osint claimants merging some burning videos with altered satellite images - Pakistan has nothing to show.
TAC
Registered Member
And what of the top of the line IAF jets shot down including their latest ubber expensive and best Ra-fail against zero PAF losses in the air battle, they didn’t deem that part worthy of mention?
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Falcon26
Trusted Member
This video is just fantastic
1. He says “they” to refer to the Indian jets shot down even though he refuses to give number.
2. Says they flew after two days meaning they were grounded for two days.
3. Admits even then, they ”targeted at long range” meaning they had to stay away from the battle space and fire long range missiles to escape PAF wrath.
@Raj-Hindustani @BonPlan is this fake news or you guys know better than your senior most military general?
alphaOmega
Registered Member
Came across this page. Had to make an account just for this.
The PAF performed well, but it's fine by me if they want to embarrass themselves this way by inflating the number of Rafales downed every month or so by 1, until by the year 2030, standard textbooks will talk about 5 Rafales being downed within 30 seconds during a sharp 270° turn over Amritsar.
I wouldn't bat an eye if this was just a random RUMINT account online, but an actual PAF officer? Aren't they happy with the Rafale, Mirage, Su-30 and MiG-29?
And what does this say about the PAF which couldn't replicate this despite it's air dominance? Your own PM admitted that Operation Bunyan al-Masoos was stillborn as a result of pre-emptive strikes on 10 May. After which Pakistan decided to calm down.
Overall the Pakistanis were very lucky with the stupidity of the Hindu nationalist political leadership green-lighting strikes into Pakistan with forewarning given and using shorter range AASM Hammer bombs, when they could have just used stand off weapons from the beginning.
But a good result for the Chinese MIC, they may not have secured the Indonesia deal but at least they got Uzbekistan, the ancestral land of all Pakistani Mughals...
The PAF performed well, but it's fine by me if they want to embarrass themselves this way by inflating the number of Rafales downed every month or so by 1, until by the year 2030, standard textbooks will talk about 5 Rafales being downed within 30 seconds during a sharp 270° turn over Amritsar.
I wouldn't bat an eye if this was just a random RUMINT account online, but an actual PAF officer? Aren't they happy with the Rafale, Mirage, Su-30 and MiG-29?
Only an insane mismatch in capabilities like America over Iran would allow one side to actually overfly the target of an enemy.
And what does this say about the PAF which couldn't replicate this despite it's air dominance? Your own PM admitted that Operation Bunyan al-Masoos was stillborn as a result of pre-emptive strikes on 10 May. After which Pakistan decided to calm down.
Overall the Pakistanis were very lucky with the stupidity of the Hindu nationalist political leadership green-lighting strikes into Pakistan with forewarning given and using shorter range AASM Hammer bombs, when they could have just used stand off weapons from the beginning.
But a good result for the Chinese MIC, they may not have secured the Indonesia deal but at least they got Uzbekistan, the ancestral land of all Pakistani Mughals...
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Falcon26
Trusted Member
Replicate what? The IAF chickened out and was forced to stay far away from PAF ranges as admitted by your military chief.
Grounded for two days means IAF relinquished its role and let PAF dominate the skies. Again, based on your own official military claim.
You lost at least 4 verifiable planes, & 5 according to today’s report by The Economist magazine authored by an Indian writer (https://www.economist.com/asia/2025/07/16/how-did-pakistan-shoot-down-indias-fighter-jets)
What are you smoking buddy? PAF became the first Air Force to ground a peer enemy Air Force within one hour, that too one that’s 2x bigger in numbers.
I was under the impression India ran out of Copium after May skirmishes but apparently not
Hakikat ve Hikmet
VIP Member
In my state, "they" refer to the "undeclared gender" types. It's a huge challenge. For example, my wife referred to one of her coworkers as she, but it turned out that person is actually a "they"....This video is just fantastic
1. He says “they” to refer to the Indian jets shot down even though he refuses to give number.
2. Says they flew after two days meaning they were grounded for two days.
3. Admits even then, they ”targeted at long range” meaning they had to stay away from the battle space and fire long range missiles to escape PAF wrath.
@Raj-Hindustani @BonPlan is this fake news or you guys know better than your senior most military general?
Hakikat ve Hikmet
VIP Member
The French EW is over hyped. The Turkish EW/EA hacked, blinded and deceived a French frigate at the Eastern Med, which came to the aid of the Greek Navy, to such an extent the crew lost the situational awareness and could see numerous hostile objects in their radars. Guess what? The Turkish operators were laughing themselves to death as they were hearing the frantic and panic calls from that French frigate. Some Turkish members and I myself mentioned it in the PDF a number of times....
In another instance, the TurAF F-16s were intercepting and challenging the Greek F-16s over the East Med with very aggressive maneuvers; but, strangely, the Greek Rafales flying nearby didn't or couldn't intervene to support their F-16s....
Hakikat ve Hikmet
VIP Member
Well Mr Le Frog Patil, do you see the Swedish President or PM desparate to save the reputation of the SAAB Erieye like the French doing for Rafales
Thanks to the PAF, Macron is applying the "tricks" from Modi's playbook! Anyway, he should've done it much earlier to avoid a public slap from his wife....
Hakikat ve Hikmet
VIP Member
It now boils down to who has got better engineers and scientists to fabricate better high-speed and high-power semiconductor devices with high efficiency and reliability for its AESA systems. GaN devices are notoriously poor in functional repeatability as yield is low*. Couple it with the adaptative, intelligent and neural-net based computational capability with ultra-fast devices to solve complex EM problems at a faster rate. Here, every femtosecond counts! When you put everything at a "system of systems" level the complexity increases by many folds. Not to mention the testing, finetuning and qualifying at the realistic real-life scenarios in a countless repetitive manner. Only the USA and China can afford it. Looks like the PAF has mastered it too. A billion$ question is: how?
*I am pretty sure the OEMs put the better GaN devices into systems operated by their own countries. If you really want to win in this game you need to fabricate your own GaN devices. Turkey started R&D in GaN and optoelectronic devices in the early '90s by pulling their best minds working in the Western countries. Moreover, they rolled out a lavish program to attract ex-USSR scientists following its break-up.
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