Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Jango007]

“This is the first time a top foreign leader has officially claimed that fighter jets were shot during the conflict. Even though Trump didn’t mention the country which suffered the losses, his description of the jets being “shot out of the air” seemingly points to the losses suffered by the Indian Air Force on the night of May 7.”

Trump Thinks 5 Jets Were Shot Down in India-Pakistan Conflict, Repeats Trade Deal Claim - The Wire

Pakistan had claimed that it downed five Indian planes in air-to-air combat after India launched Operation Sindoor. Indian defence brass have admitted losses but not the extent of it.

m.thewire.in

 

[Baibers_1260]

So in essence, both sides see no value in diplomacy right now. That probably means we’re in for a cycle of escalations until the ground reality shifts enough for one or both sides to reassess their position

No, there is no value in diplomacy. The only "diplomacy " needed on both sides via DGMOs is a verbal ceasefire to "pause" to re-stock, and re-calibrate weapons on a lessons learned basis for the "next round " . There will be cycle of escalation inevitably into the use of nuclear weapons, because Pakistan cannot afford either a sustained conflict which it will lose, or match India toe-to-toe in all domains of the conflict particularly the naval domain.
Indian Defence analysts have predicted a rapid escalation into the nuclear domain, in the next round despite intense support from China hoping to sustain Pakistan's conventional capabilities on par with India.
A nuclear escalation can only be stopped if China directly intervenes either by opening a new front in the North East or
entering the war directly alongside Pakistan on the Indian Pakistani border . This is highly unlikely.
A more likely scenario is that if Pakistan suffers significant damage, and resorts to nuclear weapons, China may allow the "sacrifice" of Pakistan, to attack a weakened distracted India and annex the territories it wants in India's North East ( Arunachal),
China very much wants one QUAD member out of the way to free its South Western front from threats and concentrate on Taiwan and the South China sea, If Pakistan has to be sacrificed to weaken India then that option is on the table.

Pakistan's diplomacy is also conditional to its obligations towards its ally China and it can't make a separate truce with India without taking China into consideration

The best shot at a negotiated settlement was probably when Congress was in power and India was still kind of struggling economically.

Disagree.
No Congress Prime Minister since Nehru in 1948 has EVER visited Pakistan for face to face negotiations. Rajeev Gandhi met Benazir Bhutto very briefly in a "Hi Five" moment, but that was all.
Indira Gandhi snapped diplomatic relations with Pakistan in 1971 and despite the Simla summit and agreement in 1972 never restored diplomatic relations, telecommunications, postal, transit, overflight, or sporting links with Pakistan.
The push for diplomatic relations with Pakistan ironically came from the old RSS guard long since dearly departed of the Vajpayee, Jaswant Singh Advani era .

<<Part of the reason BJP gained ground is because Congress just couldn’t sort out the Pakistan mess over decades.>>

So what Pakistan mess did the BJP government's sort out? Kargil, Uri, Phulwama Pahalgam ?
After 1971 the Congress governments held the initiative for two and half decades when on two occasions Pakistan was in mortal danger: 1984 (Operation Blue Star) and 1987 ( Operation Brasstacks)

 

[Yasser76]

No, there is no value in diplomacy. The only "diplomacy " needed on both sides via DGMOs is a verbal ceasefire to "pause" to re-stock, and re-calibrate weapons on a lessons learned basis for the "next round " . There will be cycle of escalation inevitably into the use of nuclear weapons, because Pakistan cannot afford either a sustained conflict which it will lose, or match India toe-to-toe in all domains of the conflict particularly the naval domain.
Indian Defence analysts have predicted a rapid escalation into the nuclear domain, in the next round despite intense support from China hoping to sustain Pakistan's conventional capabilities on par with India.
A nuclear escalation can only be stopped if China directly intervenes either by opening a new front in the North East or entering the war directly alongside Pakistan on the Indian Pakistani border . This is highly unlikely.
A more likely scenario is that if Pakistan suffers significant damage, and resorts to nuclear weapons, China may allow the "sacrifice" of Pakistan, to attack a weakened distracted India and annex the territories it wants in India's North East ( Arunachal),
China very much wants one QUAD member out of the way to free its South Western front from threats and concentrate on Taiwan and the South China sea, If Pakistan has to be sacrificed to weaken India then that option is on the table.

Pakistan's diplomacy is also conditional to its obligations towards its ally China and it can't make a separate truce with India without taking China into consideration



Disagree.
No Congress Prime Minister since Nehru in 1948 has EVER visited Pakistan for face to face negotiations. Rajeev Gandhi met Benazir Bhutto very briefly in a "Hi Five" moment, but that was all.
Indira Gandhi snapped diplomatic relations with Pakistan in 1971 and despite the Simla summit and agreement in 1972 never restored diplomatic relations, telecommunications, postal, transit, overflight, or sporting links with Pakistan.
The push for diplomatic relations with Pakistan ironically came from the old RSS guard long since dearly departed of the Vajpayee, Jaswant Singh Advani era .

I find myself agreeing with the Indians on this.

Pakistan needs a genuine partner for peace, Modi can never do this, as he has built his whole political base on hatred for Pakistan (and at the same time eroded much of Indian societies fabric due to this).

Rahul Gandhi seems like a Indian patriot but someone who genuinely desires peace. He is educated and a product of the modern world, the opposite of Modi.

China would be very happy to see Pak-Indian peace, trade between all three countries woud see us become a mega economic block led by China, this is in their interests and of course keeping themselves and Pak well armed in case things ever changed again

 

[Baibers_1260]

My last post on this diplomacy topic Yasser . I will leave others like @Master Chief to answer,

Pakistan needs a genuine partner for peace, Modi can never do this, as he has built his whole political base on hatred for Pakistan (and at the same time eroded much of Indian societies fabric due to this).

Modi is going to be around for a very long time, and it is best in Pakistan's interest that he remain in power. Those who will likely replace him like Yogi Adityanath or Amit Shah will be infinitely worse. Modi has deep ideological roots but hailing from the state of Gujarat he has a primary baniya businessman outlook.
There may be a surprise candidate backed by the RSS like Major General Bakshi or Lt.Colonel Purohit. That would be "fun".
Remember it is the RSS that determines who leads India and one chosen is still following the RSS diktat.

Rahul Gandhi seems like a Indian patriot but someone who genuinely desires peace. He is educated and a product of the modern world, the opposite of Modi.

Sorry to disappoint you but Rahul Gandhi is an even worse option than Yogi Adityanath so far as Pakistan is concerned. Yogi is likely to be more focused on massacres of Indian Muslims than bother with Pakistan ( at least initially). Rahul Gandhi with a "secular " international image will secure India internally, have a robust westernized diplomatic international image and with the Indian Armed Forces comfortable with no internal threats will execute a revamped Operation Brasstacks with precision. Rahul Gandhi's father Rajeev did exactly the same thing except that with the Soviet Union waving its finger he turned on Sri Lanka instead. No one will restrain Rahul .

China would be very happy to see Pak-Indian peace, trade between all three countries woud see us become a mega economic block led by China, this is in their interests and of course keeping themselves and Pak well armed in case things ever changed again

Once again, India is unlikely to quit the QUAD and abandon the anti-China alliance regardless of which government comes to power, India is gambling on maintaining a cosmetic anti-China stance in front of the QUAD members ( & the West) in return for weapons and funds that will be used in the war India wants to fight and win which is the war with Pakistan.
India's message to the West and QUAD:

"Yes we will fight China for you but first let us fight and destroy Pakistan which is conducting terrorism against us. If you help us we can get this over with quickly and get back to the war you want us to fight "​

So where is the scope for trade and mutual co-existence. Pakistan may be fooled but China is not.

 

[Maarkhoor]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Waz]

Good seeing the boys today and I gave them a warm congrats.

 

[maverick]

They promised the joos/west they would dominate Pakistan and China by now back in 2000

They sold them a big fat LIE and now they are all starting to realise that India were playing them for a fool and using them to get access to their markets.

It is an absolutely travesty, Pakistan did so much for the west in 2 wars, both times on the front lines, sacrificed their economy for their wars. Thrown aside like they were nothing.

and one more point, they dont have it in them to fight.. got the best weapons and still could not deliver against both China and Pakistan

 

[Oscar]

One thing is quite interesting.
It can be seen that PL-15 outranges the meteor(by only a small margin) lets say a J-10C is looking at Rafale contact on the Indian side you can see where it can engage from and perhaps even the JF-17 can engage from.

But if you look at the overlapping larger circle in this second image from the Indian side, it seems that if on the initial engagements the PAF simply stayed out of the S-400 engagement range at Adampur it can still take pot shots at the Rafale well inside Indian airspace. HOWEVER the PAF claims it was operating closer to the border so the question isnt just for the IAF as to why no Meteors were available but for the S-400 as well.
Why did it not get used if at any point it had PAF aircraft within engagement even though they ridiculously claim this longest SAM kill against an Erieye well beyond the effective Range of the S-400?

 

[Abdul q]

One thing is quite interesting.
It can be seen that PL-15 outranges the meteor(by only a small margin) lets say a J-10C is looking at Rafale contact on the Indian side you can see where it can engage from and perhaps even the JF-17 can engage from.

View attachment 136205But if you look at the overlapping larger circle in this second image from the Indian side, it seems that if on the initial engagements the PAF simply stayed out of the S-400 engagement range at Adampur it can still take pot shots at the Rafale well inside Indian airspace. HOWEVER the PAF claims it was operating closer to the border so the question isnt just for the IAF as to why no Meteors were available but for the S-400 as well.
Why did it not get used if at any point it had PAF aircraft within engagement even though they ridiculously claim this longest SAM kill against an Erieye well beyond the effective Range of the S-400?

View attachment 136206

Precautionary measure to keep s-400 offline till Indian airspace is clear of Iaf… history of friendly fire and casualties

 

[Oscar]

Precautionary measure to keep s-400 offline till Indian airspace is clear of Iaf… history of friendly fire and casualties

Ok - but IACCS is supposed to be a very advanced system with ML and ability to auto classify Friend and Foe. Updates given over 5 years.

In many areas there was just PAF - no one else.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

How India used civilian airliners as human shields.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

No, there is no value in diplomacy. The only "diplomacy " needed on both sides via DGMOs is a verbal ceasefire to "pause" to re-stock, and re-calibrate weapons on a lessons learned basis for the "next round " . There will be cycle of escalation inevitably into the use of nuclear weapons, because Pakistan cannot afford either a sustained conflict which it will lose, or match India toe-to-toe in all domains of the conflict particularly the naval domain.
Indian Defence analysts have predicted a rapid escalation into the nuclear domain, in the next round despite intense support from China hoping to sustain Pakistan's conventional capabilities on par with India.
A nuclear escalation can only be stopped if China directly intervenes either by opening a new front in the North East or
entering the war directly alongside Pakistan on the Indian Pakistani border . This is highly unlikely.
A more likely scenario is that if Pakistan suffers significant damage, and resorts to nuclear weapons, China may allow the "sacrifice" of Pakistan, to attack a weakened distracted India and annex the territories it wants in India's North East ( Arunachal),
China very much wants one QUAD member out of the way to free its South Western front from threats and concentrate on Taiwan and the South China sea, If Pakistan has to be sacrificed to weaken India then that option is on the table.

Pakistan's diplomacy is also conditional to its obligations towards its ally China and it can't make a separate truce with India without taking China into consideration



Disagree.
No Congress Prime Minister since Nehru in 1948 has EVER visited Pakistan for face to face negotiations. Rajeev Gandhi met Benazir Bhutto very briefly in a "Hi Five" moment, but that was all.
Indira Gandhi snapped diplomatic relations with Pakistan in 1971 and despite the Simla summit and agreement in 1972 never restored diplomatic relations, telecommunications, postal, transit, overflight, or sporting links with Pakistan.
The push for diplomatic relations with Pakistan ironically came from the old RSS guard long since dearly departed of the Vajpayee, Jaswant Singh Advani era .

<<Part of the reason BJP gained ground is because Congress just couldn’t sort out the Pakistan mess over decades.>>

So what Pakistan mess did the BJP government's sort out? Kargil, Uri, Phulwama Pahalgam ?
After 1971 the Congress governments held the initiative for two and half decades when on two occasions Pakistan was in mortal danger: 1984 (Operation Blue Star) and 1987 ( Operation Brasstacks)

Its cute that Indians think Delhi can survive nuclear fallout but Islamabad cannot.

 

[Be dazzled]

PAF and IAF almost had another 7th May on the night of 18-19 July. Phalcons flew close to the border for hours with several dozen jets lurking just behind as PAF flew several aggressive sorties and kept them in check until dawn. Things are heating up again folks.

 

[Be dazzled]

Also note that this time around the IAF has worked out a plan on how to take on the PAF
They're rigorously using active jamming and sweeping aggressively. Past two drills signify their use of netcentric warfare tactics. They're planning and practicong simultaneous sorties over all major PAF bases before enemy counter. I said it before and i repeat we cannot be complacent against them ever. 7th May will stand out but they're ready and alert this time. Our air defense is not in great shape and has several loopholes thanks to idiots sitting at the helm of affairs. Wr should've worked that out before the 7th let alone 10th May.

Are we even ready? From the looks of it and all the political and administrative goofing goim on. We aren't. A ground offensive will wreak havoc. Get the hint.

 

[Corax]

Also note that this time around the IAF has worked out a plan on how to take on the PAF
They're rigorously using active jamming and sweeping aggressively. Past two drills signify their use of netcentric warfare tactics. They're planning and practicong simultaneous sorties over all major PAF bases before enemy counter. I said it before and i repeat we cannot be complacent against them ever. 7th May will stand out but they're ready and alert this time. Our air defense is not in great shape and has several loopholes thanks to idiots sitting at the helm of affairs. Wr should've worked that out before the 7th let alone 10th May.

Are we even ready? From the looks of it and all the political and administrative goofing goim on. We aren't. A ground offensive will wreak havoc. Get the hint.

The consequence of the indians forcing our hand and revealing our capabilities. After their humiliation, they're desperate for an A2A kill to save face.