Z-10 ME/P deliveries Updates: Pakistan Army Aviation.

[Cool_Soldier]

Long awaiting birds Z10 ME of PAA , finally arrived .No doubt excellent addition.

 

[Oscar]

A few years ago (or maybe a decade) there was a article on Cobras in early days if WoT and Kamra’s role in some upgrades.

Never found it again.

 

[Toxic]

A few years ago (or maybe a decade) there was a article on Cobras in early days if WoT and Kamra’s role in some upgrades.

Never found it again.

I have wondered why local upgrades for the cobras were never done, were the Americans still being stubborn bastards with user restrictions for such ancient equipment?

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

A few years ago (or maybe a decade) there was a article on Cobras in early days if WoT and Kamra’s role in some upgrades.

Never found it again.

I used to think what a shame was musharaf era.. for americans we lost almost 100k people and with over 150 billion dollars in usd and in that time we even couldnt get attack heli from USA for WOT?

 

[Toxic]

I used to think what a shame was musharaf era.. for americans we lost almost 100k people and with over 150 billion dollars in usd and in that time we even couldnt get attack heli from USA for WOT?

Our only association with WOT in the eyes of the Western world is that OBL was found in Abottabad, idk what game the jurnails were trying to play by keeping him here but we have to admit they had just as big of a role in Fucking us over.

 

[ghazi52]

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[Oscar]

I have wondered why local upgrades for the cobras were never done, were the Americans still being stubborn bastards with user restrictions for such ancient equipment?

All upgrades were available but Bell Helicopter does nothing new.
Additional spares and more C-nites were procured but when a helicopter was completely taken out of service in the 90s and the only one who made upgrades are the Israelis you dont have much of a choice. Turkish upgrades did not offer what was really wanted.

 

[RafaleSlayer]

I used to think what a shame was musharaf era.. for americans we lost almost 100k people and with over 150 billion dollars in usd and in that time we even couldnt get attack heli from USA for WOT?

only 14 old Cobras from Jordan and upgrade to (some or all of them) from the US. Turkey also provided a lot of spares for free

 

[RafaleSlayer]

Hazrat - bas aik Scar ki reet na puri howi.

and Euro Fighter, and Mig35, and J16

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

only 14 old Cobras from Jordan and upgrade to (some or all of them) from the US. Turkey also provided a lot of spares for free

that is nothing.. we should have asked for more than 100 AH-64 apache

 

[Fatman17]

that is nothing.. we should have asked for more than 100 AH-64 apache

Dream scenario

 

[Fatman17]

can't go back in time. This is why Americans want /support military rule in Pakistan because they are on weak grounds and its easy to arm twist them, in case of a proper political leadership, decision is collective by the parliament (like the closure of GLOC after Sahala attack)

That is why IK was ousted by that duffer Janjua on the behest of Americans.

Stick to the topic please

 

[Quwa]

All upgrades were available but Bell Helicopter does nothing new.
Additional spares and more C-nites were procured but when a helicopter was completely taken out of service in the 90s and the only one who made upgrades are the Israelis you dont have much of a choice. Turkish upgrades did not offer what was really wanted.

IMO... the PAA AH-1s might ultimately be phased out by the ITAR-free ATAK.

Yes, the Z-10MEs started the process, but the PAA's feature requests for it were evidently oriented for conventional ops, e.g., integrated ECM, reinforced armour, sand/particulate filtration, etc.

OTOH, the ATAK, when it was first evaluated, was tested for hot temperatures, high altitude, long-endurance, and, crucially, durability in less-prepared stations where temperatures can either get very high or very low. Basically, Northern Areas, Tribal Areas, and Balochistan. This, IMO, points to more of a COIN orientation.

So, in a sense, the AH-1Z was originally sought for the conventional anti-armour role, and the T129 for COIN and maybe armed recce roles. It's also worth recalling that in 2015, the 2 Z-10As came with a single Z-19.

I think where it could get interesting in the long-run is if the ITAR-free ATAK (or T629) manifests into crewed and unmanned variants...

 

[Pak-Warrior]

OTOH, the ATAK, when it was first evaluated, was tested for hot temperatures, high altitude, long-endurance, and, crucially, durability in less-prepared stations where temperatures can either get very high or very low. Basically, Northern Areas, Tribal Areas, and Balochistan. This, IMO, points to more of a COIN orientation.

Very true, COIN / anti-terror ops have become a necessity. Unfortunately resources need to be poured in this area. Should ideally fix all internal security issues ASAP with combination of military means / diplomacy. So every penny be focused on primary threats.

However, that evaluation for high altitude and extreme temperatures could be for hilly border regions with India too? like areas surrounding Kargil, or areas surrounding Siachin? I know helis are used in siachin for transportation and supplies. Don't know if gunship is practical over there or not but just saying if testings were done at high altitudes with extreme temperatures, perhaps that was one area of interest too?

 

[Quwa]

Very true, COIN / anti-terror ops have become a necessity. Unfortunately resources need to be poured in this area. Should ideally fix all internal security issues ASAP with combination of military means / diplomacy. So every penny be focused on primary threats.

However, that evaluation for high altitude and extreme temperatures could be for hilly border regions with India too? like areas surrounding Kargil, or areas surrounding Siachin? I know helis are used in siachin for transportation and supplies. Don't know if gunship is practical over there or not but just saying if testings were done at high altitudes with extreme temperatures, perhaps that was one area of interest too?

Yep, absolutely. I was just pointing out that the PAA may have another -- and lighter -- type in mind for the final few Cobras, which would tie into renewed ATAK interest. The high-altitude and endurance aspect would also tie into Kashmir and LoC as well, definitely.

Overall, asset accumulation isn't the only challenge -- gradually, it might be the least of our issues. The bigger challenge moving forward is mobilization. It's one thing to maintain a large force-size, but we need to organize them for responsiveness and speed, literally at the first sign of trouble, be it east or west, inside or outside.

Long-run, we'd want to integrate combined arms groups of diff types (e.g., attack helis + AFVs + arty, or attack helis + tanks, etc), and then bake them into our counteroffensive mechanisms.