Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[TAC]

IAF behaved laughably in 65 - then came back and did fairly decently in 71. Perhaps not as great but well enough that it allowed its ground forces to achieve the objectives.

PAF actually did pretty bad in 65 considering its advantages, it dithered and at the end snatched defeat vis a vis its war objectives from the jaws of victory.

In 71, PAF did decently but also played over cautious just as it did in 65 waiting on overall military leadership (at that time also engaged in self preservation or exploring Noor Jehan).

What makes you assume somehow that IAF performance is guaranteed to be as callous, misjudged or overconfident as before?

You assume somehow that a combination of strategic imperatives and plain anger/revenge cannot drive better decisions and preparation?

I made and make no such assumptions. Ofcoarse they could possibly come back and perform much better next time round. Where did I say they can’t? My point was that despite all the bravado and bluster they failed miserably in in 2019 and faired even worse in 2025 and are now reduced to showing how powerful they are by wiping out the ‘enemy’ in their own exercises.

 

[Ali_Baba]

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This is what happens when your response is pacifist and not a punishing one, we spared the goddamns indians for 2 fking days, gave them time to hit back at us and now these dumb fk gangus think they can destroy the PAF on ground. The war that pak establishment ran away from is looming on the horizon, they could have fought this war on terms but the opportunity has slipped and we will be fighting on Indian terms, a month, six months or a year, we will always be guessing and they will quietly jump in when they want to

The lack of common sense show by the IAF shows no bounds. Truly, they have learnt NOTHING ..

Pakistan will have every single electronic snooping device it has, listening in on every frequency being used by the IAF and is busily dissecting all of the comms and radar frequencies being used right now. This exercise is a gold mine for the PAF, given it can listen in and snoop on so much of the electronic spectrum from over the border.

 

[Yasser76]

The lack of common sense show by the IAF shows no bounds. Truly, they have learnt NOTHING ..

Pakistan will have every single electronic snooping device it has, listening in on every frequency being used by the IAF and is busily dissecting all of the comms and radar frequencies being used right now. This exercise is a gold mine for the PAF, given it can listen in and snoop on so much of the electronic spectrum from over the border.

Consdiering how big India is, do the exercise in the East of the country away from prying eyes, but could be with chinese sats it makes no difference?

 

[Corax]

I have no say on the nuclear threshold. It’s just an assumption based on the recent conflicts.
I am pretty sure that no one wants a nuclear conflict. But that so called threshold is based on many assumptions. The assumption of that threshold during Kargil was proven wrong in 2019 and again in 2025.
Will full scale conflict involving all forces breach that?
Many people might claim to know about it, but would have no idea about it.

That's exactly my point, indians like you have been harping on about calling Pakistan's bluff and conducting conventional military conflicts without breaching the nuclear threshold, but ever since 1999 you've had to escalate each time, but it still has not changed anything on the ground - Pakistan continues to support the Kashmir freedom fighters and attacks continue. May 2025 certainly won't change that. Now you and your ilk are talking about a full scale war...so tell me, how will you conduct a full scale war without breaching a nuclear threshold between two nuclear states? Yeah, of course there's many assumptions, but maybe you don't know what they say about assumptions being the mother of all fuckups. Best of luck with your assumptions when you start a war with Pakistan.

 

[Yasser76]

That's exactly my point, indians like you have been harping on about calling Pakistan's bluff and conducting conventional military conflicts without breaching the nuclear threshold, but ever since 1999 you've had to escalate each time, but it still has not changed anything on the ground - Pakistan continues to support the Kashmir freedom fighters and attacks continue. May 2025 certainly won't change that. Now you and your ilk are talking about a full scale war...so tell me, how will you conduct a full scale war without breaching a nuclear threshold between two nuclear states? Yeah, of course there's many assumptions, but maybe you don't know what they say about assumptions being the mother of all fuckups. Best of luck with your assumptions when you start a war with Pakistan.

2031 - IAF loses 18 planes. Claims "Victory".....

 

[Master Chief]

Or according to Indian perspective, Pakistan will understand that solution of Kashmir is not through "bleeding India with a thousand cuts". It will reign in the terrorists (there is "someone" providing arms and trainings - in India civilians don't carry AKs so clearly coming from outside). Better sense will prevail, Pakistan will give up its design on Kashmir (esp. as gap between India and Pakistan grows) and "sue" for better relations.

Might be far fetched, but many in India believe that Pakistan will eventually think of its people's welfare which can accelerate leaps and bounds if relations improve and trade opens up. An Made in India car or bike selling in Pakistan, fresh produce from India, Kesar being sold in India etc. etc.

For this to happen, Pakistan should take an unambiguous and consistent approach to terrorists and terrorism. This is not to say India is "doodh ka dhula" - though I don't have enough facts/figures - India might be supporting elements that widen the fissures in Pakistani society. All I can say (unequivocally) is that no terrorists against Pakistan are being trained or armed in India while same can't be said about Pakistan.

Its a longer debate and I don't think India or Pakistan are saints... but somewhere somehow people will have to recognize that you can't solve this problem through violence

What has India gained from facilitating terrorism since 1947?

Jammu massacres, LTTE, BLA, mukhti bahini and other examples of terrorists deployed in support of Delhi's imperialist expansionism have categorically failed to achieve longlasting peace for the Indian nation state.

Pakistan's very existence is testament to that failure.

It is too late for India to return to 1947 and choose a different path. Terror is now a hardwired state policy. That Indian civilians don't know how to us AK47s is irrelevant, as terrorism is simply either outsourced internationally via the elected government and its contracted agents or is carried out domestically with machetes.

 

[side-winder]

The lack of common sense show by the IAF shows no bounds. Truly, they have learnt NOTHING ..

Pakistan will have every single electronic snooping device it has, listening in on every frequency being used by the IAF and is busily dissecting all of the comms and radar frequencies being used right now. This exercise is a gold mine for the PAF, given it can listen in and snoop on so much of the electronic spectrum from over the border.

Wartime frequencies are always different from the ones used during peace times or exercises. Still, however, alot of information can be collected for analysis.

 

[Master Chief]

India is not invading any foreign land,

India invaded multiple declared sovereign states around the time of Indian independence.

Multiple.

These were all territories that were annexed by Delhi.

Let me know if you need to discuss further.

 

[Yasser76]

Wartime frequencies are always different from the ones used during peace times or exercises. Still alot of information can be collected for analysis.

Yeah, even stuff like how many Rafales they can deploy at once or formation make up of strike packages.

 

[Areesh]

Yeah, even stuff like how many Rafales they can deploy at once or formation make up of strike packages.

Jaguars are participating in this exercise?

Just asking for research purpose

 

[Vkdindian1]

That's exactly my point, indians like you have been harping on about calling Pakistan's bluff and conducting conventional military conflicts without breaching the nuclear threshold, but ever since 1999 you've had to escalate each time, but it still has not changed anything on the ground - Pakistan continues to support the Kashmir freedom fighters and attacks continue. May 2025 certainly won't change that. Now you and your ilk are talking about a full scale war...so tell me, how will you conduct a full scale war without breaching a nuclear threshold between two nuclear states? Yeah, of course there's many assumptions, but maybe you don't know what they say about assumptions being the mother of all fuckups. Best of luck with your assumptions when you start a war with Pakistan.

The onus lies on Pakistan too. Pakistan has been providing material support to the separatists in Kashmir which has been acknowledged by many Pak leaders. Musharraf had openly accepted the use of non-state actors to further your cause.
This was done under the shadow of the nuclear threshold. We can provide all the support but any response from your side can lead to a nuclear conflict, was the premise of this support. There was also a term called - death by thousand cuts.

This palming off, of all the responsibility to India and claiming yourself to be holier than thou is good for domestic consumption and unlikely to work outside.

Both the nations have their own premise and compulsions. Each side can claim their own to be just and other side to be vile, irresponsible and irrational.

 

[falcon34]

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?

 

[Windjammer]

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[Corax]

The onus lies on Pakistan too. Pakistan has been providing material support to the separatists in Kashmir which has been acknowledged by many Pak leaders. Musharraf had openly accepted the use of non-state actors to further your cause.
This was done under the shadow of the nuclear threshold. We can provide all the support but any response from your side can lead to a nuclear conflict, was the premise of this support. There was also a term called - death by thousand cuts.

This palming off, of all the responsibility to India and claiming yourself to be holier than thou is good for domestic consumption and unlikely to work outside.

Both the nations have their own premise and compulsions. Each side can claim their own to be just and other side to be vile, irresponsible and irrational.

It has nothing to do with morals or who is right, but national interest and policy. You can't deter Pakistan by these punitive strikes and will need to escalate. Pakistan can't change the status quo but then it doesn't need to, it's happy to continue supporting the Kashmir freedom fighters. So unless there's a dramatic shift in the policy of either country, the current status quo will continue, unless of course india initiates a full scale war, and then it's anyone's guess what will happen.

 

[Yasser76]

Jaguars are participating in this exercise?

Just asking for research purpose

Unsure, but would not be surprised now.

IAF retiring it's last two MIG-21 sqds in a month or so, now fleet looks like

29 Sqds

6 Jaguar
13 SU-30
3 Mirage 2000
2 Radale
3 MIG-29
2 Tejas (non combat capable in reality)

Take out the Tejas, IAF is now looking at 27 effective combat Sqds.

V

16 PAF combat Sqds, 19 sqds if you include CCS.

Now assuming some IAF combat jets have to be stationed by China, let us assume at least 2 wings (4 Combat Sqds)

Then the reality is 23 Combat Sqds v potentially 19 PAF combat Sqds by Sep 2025.

Not only is IAF lagging in technology and training here, it terms of numbers (and i have not even taken into account the 7th May combat losses), IAF is becoming smaller with every passing year