PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[RajaBaja]

Considering China wants to shutdown the J-10 and therefore Pakistan has to decided soon, it would be better off Pakistan accept it won’t be able to hold more than 3 squadrons of F-16 in its inventory, most likely only 2 squadrons (36 jets) as time goes on, even after a SLEP and MLU for much of the fleet.

Therefore, the PAF has to commit to buying at least another 4 if not 5 more J-10 squadrons, Pakistan might as well pickup much of the production line alongside the JF-17 production line and look to consolidate production capabilities to maintain those two platforms for decades to come.

Pakistan should probably aim for at least 7 squadrons of J-10s and 10 squadrons of the JF-17, alongside the 2 squadrons of J-35A and 2 Squadrons of F-16s. Leaving room for acquiring more stealth fighters down the line, as things develop, as well a retiring off the last of the F-7s and Mirages.

Only with squadron numbers like these, picking up the production facilities should be worth it. Also, Pakistan will have to bite the bullet and look to hire all the Chinese engineers it will need to train Pakistani engineers to learn how to make the two jets completely, the whole ecosystem. At the end of a 10 year process, the PAF could shift to turning these facilities to make the J-35A mid 2030s variant or the KAAN, whatever the PAF at the time determines works best for the nation. It also makes it likely the engineers could design a single engine JF-17 PFX replacement for the oldest JF-17s to ensure squadron numbers.

We can’t expect the current openness to ensure F-16 upgrades will come and even if they do, be supported enough to be depended upon for our defense. F-16s are the bonus fleet (western training, western/Turkish munitions, primarily strike oriented as the Aim-120C5 will probably not be as competitive in a decade or so) now.

Let's separate the issues so the readers can clearly understand each item. You went from F-16's to J-10's to J-35's all in one post.

F-16's: I've mentioned many times, these are relevant jets for next 10 years. The block 52, even 15 more years. MLU'd F-16's need Murad AESA upgrade and Turkish BVR combos so Pakistan can field a PL-15 or better capability. I think we are a partner in one of the BVR program. So we should use it, and get out of the "export versions" with less range. So the MLU'd F-16's will become front line jets again.
F-16 block 52 will be upgraded to Block 70. With that, we'll more than likely get AMRAAM D1. We could get the D-3 when AMRAAM E or AIM-260 are starting to be deployed. But these 18 jets will always stay as tier II because I believe their BVR range will always be less than our Chinese and Turkish options.

Now onto the J-10C. I was of the opinion to get the assembly line until 2019. Our requirements changed, and now changed even more in 2025. We may need 80-100 jets right now. But with India massing redundant tiers of S-400 and in future S-500 on our borders with near 300-400 KM range, covering majority of our airspace with their missiles has pushed us to go heavy on stealth platforms. So the J-10C's will be limited to 80-100. Like the Mirages, we can get the rebuild line for them to maintain them here. No need to invest in TOT and purchasing an assembly line.

This money will go into creating an assembly line for the PFX and buying J-35P's.

 

[Reichmarshal]

We all need to understand that the f 16 ( both the mlu/block 52) are potent platforms still. Even against the rafale n stands a even chance to shoot it down.
It is just that that the Chinese weapons n tech has turned the game on its head. Specially the missiles.

 

[RajaBaja]

When our fighters go on the offensive, or even close to the border, during heightened tensions, we will need more than self protection jammers, as the enemy will be expected that. Look at how the Rafale will all it’s built in EW suite got jumped by the PAF J-10s. A dedicated aircraft with dedicated crew for the mission of protecting a flight package and flying with them will become more necessary as both sides up their capabilities in ground based and standoff aerial EW.

Rafale carries a less sophisticated jamming system than the J-10C. Rafale also has a built in system they put sensors inside vs. carrying an external AESA pod. Otherwise, it would just be an AESA POD also.

Secondly, re-read my message above. No fighter jet whether J-10D or anything else, can provide more jamming power compared to what land based jamming systems can. Because the land based systems run at a much higher power than a fighter jet. That's how we spoofed 200 KM airspace inside the Indian territory, soft cracked their stand off munitions, Brahmos and also cracked into Rafale's avionics and encrypted communications.

For a reference, see the first 3 seconds. Pause at 3, rewind to 0 and re-watch. You should understand my point above.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Deino]

Yet.

The importance of EW is self evident. Dedicated EW as part of a combat formation may become necessary to survive enemy air defenses a stand off jammer like the Havasoj may not be enough.

Yes, but this does not translate in „CAC will develop a dedicated J-10D EW-variant for Pakistan“!

 

[Michael]

The importance of EW is self evident. Dedicated EW as part of a combat formation may become necessary to survive enemy air defenses a stand off jammer like the Havasoj may not be enough.

A special modified version of the J-10C was once exposed.


Ultimately, the PLAAF abandoned this plan and adopted an external electronic warfare pod approach.

These circumstances indicate that the J-10C is not suitable for conversion into a dedicated electronic warfare aircraft.
So, your topic is over.

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes, but this does not translate in „CAC will develop a dedicated J-10D EW-variant for Pakistan“!

True, it’s does not automatically mean it will happen. It all down to if the PAF requests it and is willing to pay for a modified version. The 25 J-10 currently procured by the PAF were focused on the A2A mission, but after the May 2025 conflict, the PAF is probably assessing how best to configure its formations in the face of an Indian military that will try to throw everything it can, especially ground based SAMs, against the PAF to save face on the next go around.

There was always that mystery single seat J-10 with the enhanced Dorsal spine.

 

[Ali_Baba]

In a larger area, the logic is valid. But since our depth is less, the ground based Jammers will provide up to 500 KM jamming. For self protection, both JF-17 and J-10C carry an AESA jamming POD.

Ground based jammers cannot jam at 500km due to line of sight issues ?

 

[FuturePAF]

A special modified version of the J-10C was once exposed.
View attachment 141983
View attachment 141984
Ultimately, the PLAAF abandoned this plan and adopted an external electronic warfare pod approach.
View attachment 141985
These circumstances indicate that the J-10C is not suitable for conversion into a dedicated electronic warfare aircraft.
So, your topic is over.

For the PLAAF, they have better options; the J-16D. But why wouldn’t a J-10 with three jamming pods and anti radiation missiles work?

The enhanced dorsal spine variant of the J-10 had room for more electronics or at least fuel (freeing up room for under wing jamming pods).

Modified for a foreign customer:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Yasser76]

For the PLAAF, they have better options; the J-16D. But why wouldn’t a J-10 with three jamming pods and anti radiation missiles work?

The enhanced dorsal spine variant of the J-10 had room for more electronics or at least fuel (freeing up room for under wing jamming pods).

Modified for a foreign customer:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Lack of power for the pods?

 

[RajaBaja]

Ground based jammers cannot jam at 500km due to line of sight issues ?

And who told you we ONLY have LOS Jammers? LOS was 1990's tech. This is 2025! Read up on "Broad Spectrum" frequencies. See the image below.

 

[Deino]

A special modified version of the J-10C was once exposed.
View attachment 141983
View attachment 141984
Ultimately, the PLAAF abandoned this plan and adopted an external electronic warfare pod approach.
View attachment 141985
These circumstances indicate that the J-10C is not suitable for conversion into a dedicated electronic warfare aircraft.
So, your topic is over.

No, this was indeed initially discussed as a dedicated EW-variant, but according to what I understand now it is not a special mission variant but a single airframe related to act as a FCS/FBW testbed to replace the JL-8/K-8 VISTA.

 

[FuturePAF]

Lack of power for the pods?

That and the limited weight carriage by the J-10 are the two issues I can for see for the J-10. But considering the PAF can’t get the J-16D, it may have to make do with the J-10 as the platform.

 

[Deino]

For the PLAAF, they have better options; the J-16D. But why wouldn’t a J-10 with three jamming pods and anti radiation missiles work?

The enhanced dorsal spine variant of the J-10 had room for more electronics or at least fuel (freeing up room for under wing jamming pods).

Modified for a foreign customer:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

The only issue is, Pakistan won‘t be able to get them since China does not export its Flanker versions.

 

[Michael]

For the PLAAF, they have better options; the J-16D. But why wouldn’t a J-10 with three jamming pods and anti radiation missiles work?

1. All known dedicated electronic warfare fighters (EA-18G/J-15D/J-16D) are two-seat aircraft. This involves extensive workloads, and pilots cannot simultaneously process large amounts of information while flying the aircraft. It requires dedicated operators to process this information.
The J-10AS is too old and unsuitable. The J-10C does not have a two-seat version.

2. Dedicated electronic warfare fighters require significant space and power. The J-10C's WS-10 engine can only provide limited power. Its interior is also very limited.

The 4th/4.5th-Gen fighters have external electronic warfare pods, and the 5th-Gen fighters have built-in electronic warfare capabilities. These are primarily for self-defense rather than offense. They are completely different from the electronic warfare offensive capabilities of dedicated electronic warfare fighters.

 

[FuturePAF]

The only issue is, Pakistan won‘t be able to get them since China does not export its Flanker versions.

Hence why I ask if it’s possible the PAF is seeking a dedicated EW variant of the J-10. Improvements to the engine to maximize electrical output and modifications to the airframe to be able to carry 3 jamming pods as well as two long range anti radiation missiles. The dorsal spine could house the ESM electronics or more fuel.