Iranian Air Defence Systems | News and Discussions

[Shafagh]

Would it be worth getting rush deliveries of North Korean systems to fill in the gaps of lost equipment? The KN 06 maybe?

Perhaps in the even China won't sell anything.

 

[Aziqbal]

Would it be worth getting rush deliveries of North Korean systems to fill in the gaps of lost equipment? The KN 06 maybe?

Perhaps in the even China won't sell anything.

I would agree for some bizarre reason Iran wants to build everything themselves

this is simply not practical and off the shelve from 3rd parties can be better

it quicker and probably even cheaper

Iran now needs to turn to China for a fully integrated air defence network

 

[Hack-Hook]

I would agree for some bizarre reason Iran wants to build everything themselves

this is simply not practical and off the shelve from 3rd parties can be better

it quicker and probably even cheaper

Iran now needs to turn to China for a fully integrated air defence network

we have bad experience buying weapon from others
and be assured china will not provide that an fully integrated air defense will include a potent air-force accompanied with AWACS and china wont provide that because they don't consider Iran an strategic ally , only a friend of convenience for now and for them their trades with PGCC countries is far more important and those countries don't like Iran with a strong air force

 

[Shafagh]

we have bad experience buying weapon from others
and be assured china will not provide that an fully integrated air defense will include a potent air-force accompanied with AWACS and china wont provide that because they don't consider Iran an strategic ally , only a friend of convenience for now and for them their trades with PGCC countries is far more important and those countries don't like Iran with a strong air force

Iran doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to meet its demand. Who knows how much damage Israel did to the semiconductor production facilities. They are expensive and difficult to replace, not to mention consume lots of water and electricity.

If anything, at least the North Korean hardware isn't compromised. I trust the hermit kingdom over countries with all kinds of connections to the west.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Semiconductors as usual come from Russia and china

 

[RajaBaja]

I would agree for some bizarre reason Iran wants to build everything themselves

this is simply not practical and off the shelve from 3rd parties can be better

it quicker and probably even cheaper

Iran now needs to turn to China for a fully integrated air defence network

Their all weather ally, Russia didn't side with them so they've learned the hard way. The way to go for any nation to sustain a war with a permanent adversary is to make everything internally. Or, all major systems at the least. Iran has Israel and Pakistan has India.

But what Iran should do is to buy systems they need urgently to fill up the quantity. But get TOT and start building future variants internally. That way, they'll quickly get the numbers and can build these systems internally in the future.

 

[Shafagh]

Can 358 stop cruise missiles?

How possible is it to fire groups of them with launchers similar to truck based Shahed 136 launchers, using them as sentry drones along the western border?

 

[ToddE]

Can 358 stop cruise missiles?

How possible is it to fire groups of them with launchers similar to truck based Shahed 136 launchers, using them as sentry drones along the western border?

Not that effective, 358/9 are designed to chase drones. They are practically themselves smart drones that work as "pseudo-SAMs", built to engage low speed targets. Very effective against UCAVs or large aircrafts but nothing else.

IAF's strategy so far has been barrages of ALBMs from Iraqi airspace targetting the Search n Tracking assets of IADS so the system goes blind. If Iranian planners were clever they should have seen how last year strike by IAF was not aimed at the TELs but the tracking radar of S-300 PMU2 in Esfahan. They just do not care about air strips, TEL's of SAMs, fighter jets or anything except for Search n Track assets in initial phase of war. Whatever ALBM can not take out was targetted by internal dissidents/terrorists. ALCMs or SOWs, PGMSs come later when the IADS poses no more threat. So even if we get S-400 or fully operationalize Bavar-373 adding layers after layers, IAF fighters can simply lob high KE ALBMs at their tracking radars from Iraqi airspace, way out of any harms way until the IADs is a blind duck.

To tackle enemy CMs in this scenario where ALBM strikes are crippling ground Search n Track assets, best way would have been a force of ~120-150 dedicated light CAP fighters armed with multiple HOBS WVR missiles on multi-rails pylons. Aircraft can see CMs/SOWs on its own radar or EO/IRST passive tracking assets and can reach or chase it to take it out using its own on board tracking assets. Iran had project Kowsar, a 4.0 Generation F-5 that could have served this purpose but 5 exist and lack weapons thanks to 200 Million USD budget for IRIAF. Through Datalink they could also rally hundreds of Karrar jet powered interceptors which we have seen has its own datalink antennas.

 

[Immortals]

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[ToddE]

^

Israeli strategy: Keep lobbing ALBMs/ALCMs from Iraqi airspace towards every possible Search n Track asset of Iranian IADS to make the system blind. Whatever IAF can't hit directly from outside Iranian airspace, can be hit with micro strikes from within Iran using local agents.

IRI's response to this: Nothing.

 

[Shafagh]

^

Israeli strategy: Keep lobbing ALBMs/ALCMs from Iraqi airspace towards every possible Search n Track asset of Iranian IADS to make the system blind. Whatever IAF can't hit directly from outside Iranian airspace, can be hit with micro strikes from within Iran using local agents.

IRI's response to this: Nothing.

So play the same game with them; flood Iraqi airspace with drones to force them into shooting them down rather than getting close and firing their ASMs. Pull back all jets to the west and use them to counter air launched threats and drones.

Did Iran's air force even play any role back in June? At the very least, they would have downed some drones and we would see kill markings.

On another note: would Chinese CS/SA5 SPAAGs be worthwhile as point defence?

 

[muhammed45]

^

Israeli strategy: Keep lobbing ALBMs/ALCMs from Iraqi airspace towards every possible Search n Track asset of Iranian IADS to make the system blind. Whatever IAF can't hit directly from outside Iranian airspace, can be hit with micro strikes from within Iran using local agents.

IRI's response to this: Nothing.

Americans will never allow Iraq to have a real military.

Current Iraqi PM is a puppy. Its a matter of time Israel or US supported terrorists take over Iraq. I am counting the seconds.

 

[ToddE]

Americans will never allow Iraq to have a real military.

Current Iraqi PM is a puppy. Its a matter of time Israel or US supported terrorists take over Iraq. I am counting the seconds.

If Iranians are dying because Israelis fire Missiles at them from Iraqi skies then its the responsibility of the Iranian Government to do something about it. Iraq is crippled and cant defend its skies, whats IRI's excuse ?

 

[ToddE]

So play the same game with them; flood Iraqi airspace with drones to force them into shooting them down rather than getting close and firing their ASMs. Pull back all jets to the west and use them to counter air launched threats and drones.

IRIAF is no longer a combat capable force for some years now. I am assuming they barely have few FMC (Full mission capable) air-frames left due to lack of budget.

What you are saying is hypothetically possible if some 500 IADS datalinked Karrars are deployed over Iraq, armed with 2 x High Off-bore Sight All Aspect WVR Azaraksh missiles.

Karrar's absence in war is mind boggling but I have a theory. The moment Search Track FCR's were taken out Karrars became useless as without any Tracking data the missile it carries is barely a Manpad with 8-10 KM range and Drone itself cant fly outside Radio or LOS control range which is merely 300 KM. Even if they launch these from borders they can barely reach eastern cities of Iraq. Add in heavy jamming environment by USAF, USN and IAF itself. C-Band LOS is highly vulnurable to Jamming as US itself found out decade+ back. You cant just fly a LOS or Radio controlled UCAV in that environment and expect it to fire missiles at enemy fighter jets.

Did Iran's air force even play any role back in June? At the very least, they would have downed some drones and we would see kill markings.

None.

F-4Es were seen flying CAP formation in one video. Useless force.

On another note: would Chinese CS/SA5 SPAAGs be worthwhile as point defence?

Anything with an active Search n Track asset will be hit either from ALBM strike from above Iran or from within Iran. Thanks to stupid socio-economic policies IRI has created an army of disgruntled Iranian traitors. This group did more damage to Iran then IAF in 12 day war. So even if Iran creates layers and layers of S-300-PMU2, Bavar-373, Khordad 3rd, even hypothetical S-400 etc their Search Track FCRs will be taken out by IAF's ALBM.

IAFs ALBM arsenal is as diverse and lethal as IRGCAF's MRBMs. Imagine a salvo of separated MaRVs coming down at Quasi Ballistic Trajectory at high supersonic-hypersonic speed fired from somewhere above Iraq, way out of IADS intercept zone.

 

[Shafagh]

What you are saying is hypothetically possible if some 500 IADS datalinked Karrars are deployed over Iraq, armed with 2 x High Off-bore Sight All Aspect WVR Azaraksh missiles.

This is what I was wondering. I thought Karrar drone was mass produced and had datalink to F5 / SU 22.

Yes, you are right. They must have taken out major ground control stations. But why wouldn't there be mobile ground control stations?