India Lucky Not To Lose More Than Four Rafales

[rafale]

Oscar previously confirmed it was to the nose area and would cost $1m tops to repair. PAF was very lucky.

From the top view of the hanger from the picture that is widely online it seems the missile missed the exact center point of the hanger......assuming the plane was parked in the middle and missile brushed and impact off center, seems legit that the nose of aircraft was right under it.

 

[Trailer23]

I believe it was Saab that was hit.

Yes Sir,
It was the Wing & that one is now Air Worthy/Operational.

Personally know a lad that is on the Erieye in Bholari - so our good friends can lay that whole "completely destroyed an AWACS" crap to rest.

It was also one of the Topics covered in the Podcast I just posted.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

From the top view of the hanger from the picture that is widely online it seems the missile missed the exact center point of the hanger......assuming the plane was parked in the middle and missile brushed and impact off center, seems legit that the nose of aircraft was right under it.

For a reason real men maintain air forces for precise strikes. The Israili folks are no fools to have the best air force the entire strength of the Jewish dominance can buy....

 

[Irfan Baloch]

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@Oscar @Waz @Windjammer @Irfan Baloch @Agnostic Muslim
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I follow CW Lemoine he has been guarded, shocked ,respectful and cynical on this topic. he has appreciated and acknowledged the PAF presentation but had to backpaddle his praise for PAF due to Indian butthurt smell reached all the way to America.

there was an issue of realizing the power of Chinese technology as well against the top tier Western tech as well and that was a hard pill to swallow for western commentators.

 

[Oscar]

Your knowledge, contacts, insights and honest reporting & that of members like you makes this forum what it is. Can never be enough gratitude for u all.

There is no secret insight - its simply a mix of hearing things - own time reading and learning just because it is of interest.

And eventually you get to some form of status that you can “read the tea leaves” in terms of predicting what is likely there.

That still pales to actual knowledge which OPERATIONAL folks will have. Those are your record of “truth”. Then within operational folks there is also “first person” and “need to know” versus “buddy buddy messaging” and operational security aspects to what to share and what not.

Then there are veterans who may hear from their contacts.

Then analysts and more reputable ones who have been in the game and recognized(not youtubers who started making ai gen videos)

Etc etc

If on this forum

Here is the pattern I follow to verify

News - check source
Source is reputable? No often news channels but more defense news channels
Who is posting it? Someone who jumps the gun to post things or someone who reads and knows context.

Next check first comments
Has Panzerkiel, side winder , lion, arslank, (now thag @airomerix is back ) , and a few others said anything?
Is information correlating with what I believe is the scenario.
What do certain folks on X say?

Ok
Research any missing details that I need to build a picture.
Comment.

On rare occasions where I really need details like may it usually I when I check on people.

Here is a paraphrased convo for Bholari because I was doing a random check on friends.

“Salam, all good?”

“Yes, alhamdulillah - close call - unfortunately we had casualties”

“Innalillah - hopefully not too many”

“Ofcr and techs”

“May allah give that family sabr”

“Are you ok?”

“Yes, was xyz at the time - abc got hit” (notice i did not ask for details)

“Koi baat nahin yar - you guys lives are more important, cheezon ki koi auqat nahin”

“Yes, true”

“Just keep giving them hell”

“Oh we are”

And that’s the end of the convo - I might have messaged more later or talk to someone that was also operational separate but I am not going to bug this individual again. I care more about his well being rather than what happened to what. I can still piece the rest from what I hear elsewhere.

So if I was order in terms of people to look for insight

You have the names Ive pointed out

Then go check news, check what is coming from warnes and veterans talking.

Then five down on the list you could think about what I said as a half read on the situation.

 

[Trailer23]

I follow CW Lemoine he has been guarded, shocked ,respectful and cynical on this topic. he has appreciated and acknowledged the PAF presentation but had to backpaddle his praise for PAF due to Indian butthurt smell reached all the way to America.

there was an issue of realizing the power of Chinese technology as well against the top tier Western tech as well and that was a hard pill to swallow for western commentators.

I watch some (not all) of his videos.

There is feeling among some that he's not a PAF fan & seems to side India a lot more.

However, in my opinion he (like all the other Americans), is more anti-China & because PAF used Chinese equipment in this particular conflict with India - he's a bit in awe.

He was all praise for the PAF narrative and wasn't impressed by India's presentations.

Even in this video, he's not really making fun of or doubting PAF's kills - since most of them have been confirmed Internationally.

He just made fun of some cheezy comments* (of Pilots) - which I too thought were a bit cringe.

*Note: Obviously that was some scripted conversation. Not the real deal.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I watch some (not all) of his videos.

There is feeling among some that he's not a PAF fan & seems to side India a lot more.

However, in my opinion he (like all the other Americans), is more anti-China & because PAF used Chinese equipment in this particular conflict with India - he's a bit in awe.

He was all praise for the PAF narrative and wasn't impressed by India's presentations.

Even in this video, he's not really making fun of or doubting PAF's kills - since most of them have been confirmed Internationally.

He just made fun of some cheezy comments* (of Pilots) - which I too thought were a bit cringe.

*Note: Obviously that was some scripted conversation. Not the real deal.

I agree, it was a combination of shock that Chinese tech works and cant be dismissed as Timu products and some what frustration with Indians.
I watched most of his videos specially one on his own where he reviewed the presentation and said that it felt like he was in the class, he praised Aurenzaibs knowledge. re cringe comments he actually gave PAF the pass saying its fair to talk shit of your enemy specially when you get the better of your opponent.

I also saw a translated review of a former French pilot who also praised the PAF and identified Aurenzaib as very knowledgeable and one who enjoys this modern netcentric air combat.

his later on videos were more ambiguous as I mentioned earlier that the burn ass smell from India crossed the Atlantic and reached the American shores.

 

[Hayabusa]

There is no secret insight - its simply a mix of hearing things - own time reading and learning just because it is of interest.

And eventually you get to some form of status that you can “read the tea leaves” in terms of predicting what is likely there.

That still pales to actual knowledge which OPERATIONAL folks will have. Those are your record of “truth”. Then within operational folks there is also “first person” and “need to know” versus “buddy buddy messaging” and operational security aspects to what to share and what not.

Then there are veterans who may hear from their contacts.

Then analysts and more reputable ones who have been in the game and recognized(not youtubers who started making ai gen videos)

Etc etc

If on this forum

Here is the pattern I follow to verify

News - check source
Source is reputable? No often news channels but more defense news channels
Who is posting it? Someone who jumps the gun to post things or someone who reads and knows context.

Next check first comments
Has Panzerkiel, side winder , lion, arslank, (now thag @airomerix is back ) , and a few others said anything?
Is information correlating with what I believe is the scenario.
What do certain folks on X say?

Ok
Research any missing details that I need to build a picture.
Comment.

On rare occasions where I really need details like may it usually I when I check on people.

Here is a paraphrased convo for Bholari because I was doing a random check on friends.

“Salam, all good?”

“Yes, alhamdulillah - close call - unfortunately we had casualties”

“Innalillah - hopefully not too many”

“Ofcr and techs”

“May allah give that family sabr”

“Are you ok?”

“Yes, was xyz at the time - abc got hit” (notice i did not ask for details)

“Koi baat nahin yar - you guys lives are more important, cheezon ki koi auqat nahin”

“Yes, true”

“Just keep giving them hell”

“Oh we are”

And that’s the end of the convo - I might have messaged more later or talk to someone that was also operational separate but I am not going to bug this individual again. I care more about his well being rather than what happened to what. I can still piece the rest from what I hear elsewhere.

So if I was order in terms of people to look for insight

You have the names Ive pointed out

Then go check news, check what is coming from warnes and veterans talking.

Then five down on the list you could think about what I said as a half read on the situation.

What I found most striking was that the officer with whom you were corresponding showed a complete lack of concern for the potential loss of equipment. ( It is a good thing)

Our discussions have repeatedly gravitated towards the Saab issue, and in doing so, we have sometimes inadvertently overlooked the well-being of our personnel. They are undeniably the most important one.
Eventually, material assets are replaceable, but the loss of even a single life is a profound tragedy that brings home the stark reality that there are no true victors in war.

Thank you for protecting us.

 

[Oscar]

What I found most striking was that the officer with whom you were corresponding showed a complete lack of concern for the potential loss of equipment. ( It is a good thing)

Our discussions have repeatedly gravitated towards the Saab issue, and in doing so, we have sometimes inadvertently overlooked the well-being of our personnel. They are undeniably the most important one.
Eventually, material assets are replaceable, but the loss of even a single life is a profound tragedy that brings home the stark reality that there are no true victors in war.

Thank you for protecting us.

Most of them dont. Nobody cared a F-16 was lost. But many in the squadron shed tears for Wg Cdr Nauman because to them and frankly the PAF he is the asset.

Think of it this way - A Saab-2000 regardless of this one status is equipment. It can be bought and turned on and off.

The person, whose knowledge, character, intuition, experience, relationship, management training etc took years to develop and also needed funds along with time from so many other personnel is not something you can get off the market and go “on/off”

 

[Pradotlc]

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#foryou #foryoupage #exclusive #explorepage #shortvideo #exclusive #yshorts #explorar #trending #viralvideo #StarsEverywhere.

www.facebook.com

.. .

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

There is no secret insight - its simply a mix of hearing things - own time reading and learning just because it is of interest.

And eventually you get to some form of status that you can “read the tea leaves” in terms of predicting what is likely there.

That still pales to actual knowledge which OPERATIONAL folks will have. Those are your record of “truth”. Then within operational folks there is also “first person” and “need to know” versus “buddy buddy messaging” and operational security aspects to what to share and what not.

Then there are veterans who may hear from their contacts.

Then analysts and more reputable ones who have been in the game and recognized(not youtubers who started making ai gen videos)

Etc etc

If on this forum

Here is the pattern I follow to verify

News - check source
Source is reputable? No often news channels but more defense news channels
Who is posting it? Someone who jumps the gun to post things or someone who reads and knows context.

Next check first comments
Has Panzerkiel, side winder , lion, arslank, (now thag @airomerix is back ) , and a few others said anything?
Is information correlating with what I believe is the scenario.
What do certain folks on X say?

Ok
Research any missing details that I need to build a picture.
Comment.

On rare occasions where I really need details like may it usually I when I check on people.

Here is a paraphrased convo for Bholari because I was doing a random check on friends.

“Salam, all good?”

“Yes, alhamdulillah - close call - unfortunately we had casualties”

“Innalillah - hopefully not too many”

“Ofcr and techs”

“May allah give that family sabr”

“Are you ok?”

“Yes, was xyz at the time - abc got hit” (notice i did not ask for details)

“Koi baat nahin yar - you guys lives are more important, cheezon ki koi auqat nahin”

“Yes, true”

“Just keep giving them hell”

“Oh we are”

And that’s the end of the convo - I might have messaged more later or talk to someone that was also operational separate but I am not going to bug this individual again. I care more about his well being rather than what happened to what. I can still piece the rest from what I hear elsewhere.

So if I was order in terms of people to look for insight

You have the names Ive pointed out

Then go check news, check what is coming from warnes and veterans talking.

Then five down on the list you could think about what I said as a half read on the situation.

@arslank01 @Bilal @Quwa @Oscar from Ali hamza there is a news. whether this need a new thread or not its upto you guys. or if you want this news to be led under the carpet then again its upto you guys.

 

[flyingorca]

I have no issues with claims and counter claims.

The idea or the proposal of count of aircraft is a juvenile one. And the cheerleader party wants only the counting of aircraft.
Should it be restricted to aircraft or an inventory of each and every claim be verified? And who would do it?

Would Pakistan or India allow a third party access to various secure facilities to verify the claims of the other side? Some of these could be highly classified. I doubt that.

This challenge of only the aircraft count is with a hope that Indian government would officially accept the losses. It ain’t happening. If they had to, then it would have already happened.

The loss of Saab came out due to that interview by the retired Air Marshal. ISPR had only accepted loss of life and damage to equipment.
I doubt that Pakistan would come out with exact list of damages to other assets either.

I do not believe that attack on that hangar would wipe out an entire F-16 Squadron but it is highly possible to have a couple of aircraft under maintenance in that hangar.

ISPR hasn’t come out with exact details of damages at Nur Khan and other bases. At Nur Khan, it was your input that a fuel truck had caught fire.

I do not expect or demand the exact nature of damages because of obvious reasons.

Not defending Indian government’s refusal to declare the number of fighters lost. Just describing the futility of this head count demand.

I have no issues with claims and counter claims.

The idea or the proposal of count of aircraft is a juvenile one. And the cheerleader party wants only the counting of aircraft.
Should it be restricted to aircraft or an inventory of each and every claim be verified? And who would do it?

Would Pakistan or India allow a third party access to various secure facilities to verify the claims of the other side? Some of these could be highly classified. I doubt that.

This challenge of only the aircraft count is with a hope that Indian government would officially accept the losses. It ain’t happening. If they had to, then it would have already happened.

The loss of Saab came out due to that interview by the retired Air Marshal. ISPR had only accepted loss of life and damage to equipment.
I doubt that Pakistan would come out with exact list of damages to other assets either.

I do not believe that attack on that hangar would wipe out an entire F-16 Squadron but it is highly possible to have a couple of aircraft under maintenance in that hangar.

ISPR hasn’t come out with exact details of damages at Nur Khan and other bases. At Nur Khan, it was your input that a fuel truck had caught fire.

I do not expect or demand the exact nature of damages because of obvious reasons.

Not defending Indian government’s refusal to declare the number of fighters lost. Just describing the futility of this head count demand.

Cool story but PAF rtd officer never stated that Saab was destroyed,he did mention that it was damaged which will get repaired just just during 2013 terrorist attack.
As for C130, it wasNEVER DESTROYED. The video that captured C130 was parked right infront of building that was on fire which gave viewers impression that the plane was on fire. As for hangers, all fighter jets were kept inside Hardened Aircraft Shelters so they were safe.

 

[blue]

"Has Panzerkiel, side winder , lion, arslank, (now thag @aeromerix is back ) , and a few others said anything?".
....this is the way, literally on here just to read what these guys talk about. Used to be a few more folks over the years, across the different forums.. rashid, tps47? If I remember his name correctly,

 

[Quwa]

@arslank01 @Bilal @Quwa @Oscar from Ali hamza there is a news. whether this need a new thread or not its upto you guys. or if you want this news to be led under the carpet then again its upto you guys.

View attachment 144339

I think the first next-gen TDL will likely come from China as part of a turnkey package comprising of the J-35AE, KJ-500, and a loyal wingman UCAV of some type. It'd make sense as the PAF would want to deploy a ready-to-go offensive capability as soon as it can, and with minimal friction or technical complications.

It'd be similar to how the PAF basically adopted network-enabled warfare via Link-16 and F-16 and then diffused it fleet wide via the JF-17 and Link-17 years later.

Once the turnkey Chinese TDL is in effect (via J-35AE, KJ-500, etc), then the PAF could roll out its own next-gen TDL architected along similar lines, but built to support its original platforms, like PFX and so on.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

I think the first next-gen TDL will likely come from China as part of a turnkey package comprising of the J-35AE, KJ-500, and a loyal wingman UCAV of some type. It'd make sense as the PAF would want to deploy a ready-to-go offensive capability as soon as it can, and with minimal friction or technical complications.

It'd be similar to how the PAF basically adopted network-enabled warfare via Link-16 and F-16 and then diffused it fleet wide via the JF-17 and Link-17 years later.

Once the turnkey Chinese TDL is in effect (via J-35AE, KJ-500, etc), then the PAF could roll out its own next-gen TDL architected along similar lines, but built to support its original platforms, like PFX and so on.

Yes ofcourse after china does it, only then we will be able to get that and my opinion is that's why we were offered the total package of J35AE, KJ-500 and HQ-19.

Now my question will be, we cannot completely move to these next-gen TDL, as there will be platforms with us especially western radars and assets that cannot be moved to these new next-gen TDL. then how will we will implement this mix/hybrid TDL for all our assets?