Opinion: India Pakistan near conflict - Escalation management non-existent

[NA71]

 

[RajaBaja]

So - Sindoor failed to achieve its objectives? - Where is that detterence that it aimed to impose - if "terrorists" are still infiltrating across the LoC.

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It's the "Year of Defeat" for the Indians! 2025 has proven out to be terrible.

Defeat vs. Pakistan. Defeat by USA in trade and tariffs and full surrender to the Chinese ending 60+ year national security efforts to prepare for a war against the Chinese.

 

[RajaBaja]

Out of a very few, may be 1% saner voices from India. She shows godi media's anti-Pakistan mode and the entire Indian media fooling its people about SCO. When you watch Indian media, there is one thing abundantly clear, Hindutva doesn't want a 5th largest Muslim population next door. It wants to eliminate us through every cheap and wrongful means. May's events and now the floods are an example.

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@SoulSpokesman @Raj-Hindustani @Paro @Rationale @Hakikat ve Hikmet @pwfi @PAKISTANFOREVER @TAC @MirageV3ff @NA71 Your input please?

 

[RajaBaja]

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I wonder if we should've taken down 30-40 jets in May. May be that would've been such a massive loss that these people would cry for a long time to come remembering it. May be 6-0 was too little of a lesson.

 

[PK781]

I wonder if we should've taken down 30-40 jets in May. May be that would've been such a massive loss that these people would cry for a long time to come remembering it. May be 6-0 was too little of a lesson.

we had golden opportunity and missed it, thanks to our spineless leadership.
this same leadership won't last if they show any restraints next time!

 

[Master Chief]

Out of a very few, may be 1% saner voices from India. She shows godi media's anti-Pakistan mode and the entire Indian media fooling its people about SCO. When you watch Indian media, there is one thing abundantly clear, Hindutva doesn't want a 5th largest Muslim population next door. It wants to eliminate us through every cheap and wrongful means. May's events and now the floods are an example.

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@SoulSpokesman @Raj-Hindustani @Paro @Rationale @Hakikat ve Hikmet @pwfi @PAKISTANFOREVER @TAC @MirageV3ff @NA71 Your input please?

Roasts that clown Palki Sharma quite beautifully.

Of course, it is to be expected from the shameless chanakiya qom that they will readily pretend to be ancient dost dost with China now.

China knows them well though.

 

[RajaBaja]

Roasts that clown Palki Sharma quite beautifully.

Of course, it is to be expected from the shameless chanakiya qom that they will readily pretend to be ancient dost dost with China now.

China knows them well though.

You believe that their "friendship" with China will last long? I think it was just a photo-video shoot. With China, the trade imbalance is $100 billion+ in China's favor, so India losses money. While, with the US, they have been milking that cow. Only trade imbalance is $ 46 billion+ in India's favor, not to mention billions of foreign investments annually and millions of jobs also.

America has been running India. India can't get away from it. I expect Modi and Trump to "reconcile" meaning behind the scenes India will apologize, kiss and make up. India has no other choice.

Lastly, I'm saying this with full credibility, Chinese conditions to make India it's strategic partner are tough. These include resolving China-India border issues as well as making peace with Pakistan and getting out of Afghanistan to train terrorists that then go into Pakistan and hurt Chinese interests also.

With Hindutva's current posture and with May's events and now constant flooding at mass scale, it is evident that Hindutva's ruling India and they want nothing but Pakistan's destruction. They won't agree to making peace with Pakistan.

 

[RajaBaja]

One of India's prime time anchor today presented a little documentary on her show with maps. Saying that India-Pakistan partition was "unfinished business". It needs to have two outcomes, all Indian Muslims be forced to go into Pakistan. Or, Pakistan to be taken over to complete India like it was.

Like I've been saying, these people do not accept Pakistan. At all cost, they want us extinct. Those who advocate and push for "friendly ties with neighbors" need to face this truth.

Until India accepts Pakistan as a nation on equal terms and wants to force peaceful ties, it's impossible. Hindutva calls for a war with the Muslim country to take its land back.

On twitter, Indian RAW's social media wing is super active for the past one week. Since some nations have started to bring "Indian immigration" into focus. These social media agents are showing fake images of church burnings in France, UK, USA and Australia and blaming Muslim immigrants for it. India and Israel have unified, they are directly at war with the Muslim world. Sadly, the Arabs are too busy catering to India and turning Arab nations into Indian vessel states. Such stupidity. Someone ask them do they and their intelligence agencies not have access to Twitter? This is Hindutva at work with zionism.

 

[RajaBaja]

I know we all know Israel attacked Qatar yesterday. Some Western analysts are saying next could be Turkey! So really, in Pakistan's strategy, we now have Israel and India both. The chances of escalation and lack of escalation management in case of Israel's involvement or with their tactics are non-existent.

It's obvious, our competition is with F-35 as well and soon with SU-57, 150 Rafales, 250 SU-30 Super Shukois and nearly 300 other jets. This attack on Qatar has made things VERY clear. 4th gen and 4.5 gen are becoming outdated real fast.

We need to get one custom version with TOT of one of the single engine stealth combat drones China showcased in their parade. We need to get some numbers from China as soon as possible so we have 5th gen platforms, and then build these locally both manned and unmanned. These should also replace Mirages and F-7's. While J-35 and KAAN will come in around 40-60's. But they should be supplemented with a local single engine stealth fighter.

@Michael @Han Patriot @chinasun @NA71 @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PAKISTANFOREVER @TAC @pwfi @Pakistan Space Agency @MirageV3ff
Your expert opinions please?

 

[MirageV3ff]

I know we all know Israel attacked Qatar yesterday. Some Western analysts are saying next could be Turkey! So really, in Pakistan's strategy, we now have Israel and India both. The chances of escalation and lack of escalation management in case of Israel's involvement or with their tactics are non-existent.

It's obvious, our competition is with F-35 as well and soon with SU-57, 150 Rafales, 250 SU-30 Super Shukois and nearly 300 other jets. This attack on Qatar has made things VERY clear. 4th gen and 4.5 gen are becoming outdated real fast.

We need to get one custom version with TOT of one of the single engine stealth combat drones China showcased in their parade. We need to get some numbers from China as soon as possible so we have 5th gen platforms, and then build these locally both manned and unmanned. These should also replace Mirages and F-7's. While J-35 and KAAN will come in around 40-60's. But they should be supplemented with a local single engine stealth fighter.

@Michael @Han Patriot @chinasun @NA71 @Hakikat ve Hikmet @PAKISTANFOREVER @TAC @pwfi @Pakistan Space Agency @MirageV3ff
Your expert opinions please?

Firstly I doubt Israel would even think of striking Turkey. Apart from a few delusional Zionists online I haven't seen anyone credible make that assessment. Turkey is a major trading partner with Israel and they both have alliances with Azerbaijan. Militarily (in conventional terms at least), Israel can't take the Turks on, that would just be suicide.

As far as Pakistan is concerned and its NGFA procurement plans, J-35s are coming but the number of airframes and when they will be handed to Pakistan and what weapons it will carry is still a mystery.

KAAN is still a decade away in my opinion as the fighter and its many parts
(engines, sensors and weapons) are still in development.

Lastly we have discussed in another thread what Pakistan can do in the short to medium term and work on a UCAV while also getting J-10 and JF-17C numbers up. Have a credible 4.5 gen fighter fleet in massive numbers until the NFGA for PAF is ready.

Unless someone in the PAF and Pakistani government can convince china to give Pakistan a production line for J-35s (unlikley) I doubt our own PFX program will be ready by the end of the decade with how slow things are progressing

 

[RajaBaja]

Firstly I doubt Israel would even think of striking Turkey. Apart from a few delusional Zionists online I haven't seen anyone credible make that assessment. Turkey is a major trading partner with Israel and they both have alliances with Azerbaijan. Militarily (in conventional terms at least), Israel can't take the Turks on, that would just be suicide.

As far as Pakistan is concerned and its NGFA procurement plans, J-35s are coming but the number of airframes and when they will be handed to Pakistan and what weapons it will carry is still a mystery.

KAAN is still a decade away in my opinion as the fighter and its many parts
(engines, sensors and weapons) are still in development.

Lastly we have discussed in another thread what Pakistan can do in the short to medium term and work on a UCAV while also getting J-10 and JF-17C numbers up. Have a credible 4.5 gen fighter fleet in massive numbers until the NFGA for PAF is ready.

Unless someone in the PAF and Pakistani government can convince china to give Pakistan a production line for J-35s (unlikley) I doubt our own PFX program will be ready by the end of the decade with how slow things are progressing

Israel will not strike Turkey directly, only hidden attempts for now. For Pakistan, they are busy training Indians heavily at this time. You are right, KAAN is a decade away.

We just saw in Qatar's case (no matter how we take it), it's top end 4.5th gen aircraft couldn't do anything. Against 5th gen aircraft, our 4th and 4.5th gen jets are also going outdated. It's better to understand that point and plan accordingly. J-10C's would fare better than more JF-17's. We should send the JF-17 team to China for training, while, re-purpose the production line for a 5th gen stealthy single engine UCAV buildout. Buy into a project vs. spending further money on JF-17. Make this new platform both manned and unmanned as PFX and acquire the initial numbers from China. The PFX electronics we are building, can go into this stealthy platform also. But this in my opinion has become critical to move our industry to a 5th gen and stealthy design. Even if we start with producing 50% that's still better initially, it's still local industry setting up on 5th gen. After ten years, it will be much easier to start migrating to 6th gen. The critical phase is having a 5th gen industry baseline. The next gen is further improvement of 5th gen tech.

 

[MirageV3ff]

Israel will not strike Turkey directly, only hidden attempts for now. For Pakistan, they are busy training Indians heavily at this time. You are right, KAAN is a decade away.

We just saw in Qatar's case (no matter how we take it), it's top end 4.5th gen aircraft couldn't do anything. Against 5th gen aircraft, our 4th and 4.5th gen jets are also going outdated. It's better to understand that point and plan accordingly. J-10C's would fare better than more JF-17's. We should send the JF-17 team to China for training, while, re-purpose the production line for a 5th gen stealthy single engine UCAV buildout. Buy into a project vs. spending further money on JF-17. Make this new platform both manned and unmanned as PFX and acquire the initial numbers from China. The PFX electronics we are building, can go into this stealthy platform also. But this in my opinion has become critical to move our industry to a 5th gen and stealthy design. Even if we start with producing 50% that's still better initially, it's still local industry setting up on 5th gen. After ten years, it will be much easier to start migrating to 6th gen. The critical phase is having a 5th gen industry baseline. The next gen is further improvement of 5th gen tech.

You have a rich imagination my friend but some of the things you've stated are in the realm of being impractical.

Israel isn't gonna directly threaten us or anything, the indian are already doing that. The Israelis will aid them wherever they can.

Right now though we have to start thinking about replacing legacy fighters like mirage, F-7s among other airframes.

PFX is a long term solution towards JF-17 replacement. But again we don't know what will become of it or will it end up like project Azm.

And 6th gen? I give atleast a decade or two until we can get one. Even a decade is being a bit liberal.

 

[RajaBaja]

You have a rich imagination my friend but some of the things you've stated are in the realm of being impractical.

Israel isn't gonna directly threaten us or anything, the indian are already doing that. The Israelis will aid them wherever they can.

Right now though we have to start thinking about replacing legacy fighters like mirage, F-7s among other airframes.

PFX is a long term solution towards JF-17 replacement. But again we don't know what will become of it or will it end up like project Azm.

And 6th gen? I give atleast a decade or two until we can get one. Even a decade is being a bit liberal.

Israel won't do anything direct. They've hired India for that. We don't need to be worried, we need to be prepared.

At this juncture, I think continuing with the JF-17 isn't practical. The airframe was built using 27 year old aerodynamic techniques. The entire airframe needs change towards a stealthy platform.

China will end support for the JF-17 and J-10C. It's in our best interest to join them with the level they are on, that's 5th gen, even through a custom airframe designed for single engine and stealth from one of their production designs. The sooner PAF realizes it the better.

This is practical. vs. creating a PFX or other solutions out of imagination with risk of failures like AZM. Every time you build a product already being built elsewhere in large scale, you can't fail. You've capitalized on bigger nation's R&D.

 

[RajaBaja]

India trying to sit on two laps made me ask a simple question, where is India's foreign policy? Because with China, they were enemies since 1962 and they abandoned their position after 60 years of preparation to go to war with them. Similarly, they were close friends of the US. For a few billion dollars black market of oil, they ruined a relationship of 30 years! Seems like from inside India, there are the same questions coming out "where is India's foreign policy"?

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@pwfi @PAKISTANFOREVER @Pakistan Space Agency @Hakikat ve Hikmet @MirageV3ff @Raj-Hindustani @SoulSpokesman @TAC @PK781

Your opinion?

 

[NA71]

India trying to sit on two laps made me ask a simple question, where is India's foreign policy? Because with China, they were enemies since 1962 and they abandoned their position after 60 years of preparation to go to war with them. Similarly, they were close friends of the US. For a few billion dollars black market of oil, they ruined a relationship of 30 years! Seems like from inside India, there are the same questions coming out "where is India's foreign policy"?

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@pwfi @PAKISTANFOREVER @Pakistan Space Agency @Hakikat ve Hikmet @MirageV3ff @Raj-Hindustani @SoulSpokesman @TAC @PK781

Your opinion?

Sir what about Pakistan? how many times we have switched laps ? (Massomana sawal hy)