22 Years On, The Sanction-Proof JF-17 is More Important Than Ever.

[delta2]

So glad that the JF17 was designed and improved and gave Pakistan an alternate to the american F16. The americans can no longer blackmail or hold back Pakistan from strengthening and pursuing its defense goals.

Thundering birds recently destroyed S400s in india. That is a big performance achievement of the JF17 platform, as well as our lionhearted pilots of the PAF.
Its a big slap/punch on the face of the zionist americans and their nefarious designs of keeping Pakistan subservient which obviously isn't happening.

The future looks bright for the PAF inshAllah.
It is the pride of the nation!!

PAF and Pakistan Zindabad.
Happy Defense Day Pakistan.

The US policy makers would have NEVER EVER EVER approved the use of the F-16s for that mission!

Still good time for Pakistan to sell the F-16s to Ukraine, because the US policy makers would approve that sale!

 

[Tank131]

The US policy makers would have NEVER EVER EVER approved the use of the F-16s for that mission!

Still good time for Pakistan to sell the F-16s to Ukraine, because the US policy makers would approve that sale!

Dude, everyone needs get this thought out of their mind. You have currently 50 fighters in PAF that are superior to the 75 F-16s (30 JF-17 blk 3s and 20 J-10CE). Other than this, you have 126 active JF-17 blk 1 and 2 (all currently electronically blk 2 standard) all of which are inferior to F-16s. That gives you 251 4th Gen fighters (156 JF-17, 75 F-16, and 20 J-10CE).

You still have 85 Mirage 3/V to replace and 60 F-7PG. 145 fighters total. And PAF wants to keep a fleet of nearly 350-400 to maintain parity and deterence. So minimum another 100 fighters to replace. Couple that with the fact that many of the block 1s are approaching 23 years of service. These unlike F-16 block 15s havent had any sort of SLEP service and it will likely be more cost effective to replace them with entirely new builds than putting them through such a program. So you have an immediate need to replace 100-145 fighters and a near need for an additional 50 in the next 5-10 years

 

[delta2]

Dude, everyone needs get this thought out of their mind. You have currently 50 fighters in PAF that are superior to the 75 F-16s (30 JF-17 blk 3s and 20 J-10CE). Other than this, you have 126 active JF-17 blk 1 and 2 (all currently electronically blk 2 standard) all of which are inferior to F-16s. That gives you 251 4th Gen fighters (156 JF-17, 75 F-16, and 20 J-10CE).

You still have 85 Mirage 3/V to replace and 60 F-7PG. 145 fighters total. And PAF wants to keep a fleet of nearly 350-400 to maintain parity and deterence. So minimum another 100 fighters to replace. Couple that with the fact that many of the block 1s are approaching 23 years of service. These unlike F-16 block 15s havent had any sort of SLEP service and it will likely be more cost effective to replace them with entirely new builds than putting them through such a program. So you have an immediate need to replace 100-145 fighters and a near need for an additional 50 in the next 5-10 years

Pakistan needs to sell those F-16s to Ukraine and then use that cash to build a lot more JF-17s or buy more J-10Cs. The relations with the USA are now positive so selling those F-16s would not be an issue.

Who knows who the next president might be or how things might change. Sell the F-16s now.

 

[Tank131]

Pakistan needs to sell those F-16s to Ukraine and then use that cash to build a lot more JF-17s or buy more J-10Cs. The relations with the USA are now positive so selling those F-16s would not be an issue.

Who knows who the next president might be or how things might change. Sell the F-16s now.

I dont think you understand math nor construction times. You are having a hard time PAYING for enough JF-17 and J-10 to replace the 140 3rd Gen fighters whichnare falling from the sky and utterly useless in todays wars. You think selling used F-16s will get enough money for you to turn around and replace them quickly? Whose gonna build you 75 fighters in 1 year? China and Pakistan together dont have the ability to do that if they wanted, with China's industrial might dedicated to producing aircraft for its own fleet. No bro, you will have those F-16s for the foreseeable future. If anything you may look to upgrade them usong Ozgur upgrade and switch their weapons to a turkish package. That is a far better use of the supposed thawing of US /pak relations. Get rid of you F-7s and Mirages then talk about selling F-16.

 

[delta2]

I dont think you understand math nor construction times. You are having a hard time PAYING for enough JF-17 and J-10 to replace the 140 3rd Gen fighters whichnare falling from the sky and utterly useless in todays wars. You think selling used F-16s will get enough money for you to turn around and replace them quickly? Whose gonna build you 75 fighters in 1 year? China and Pakistan together dont have the ability to do that if they wanted, with China's industrial might dedicated to producing aircraft for its own fleet. No bro, you will have those F-16s for the foreseeable future. If anything you may look to upgrade them usong Ozgur upgrade and switch their weapons to a turkish package. That is a far better use of the supposed thawing of US /pak relations. Get rid of you F-7s and Mirages then talk about selling F-16.

You are stuck in penny wise pound foolish state of mind.

The F-16 is more of a liability now than an asset. What if some parts are needed in about four to five years and the next US admin declines to sell them? Then what?

Sell it now while the USA will approve the sale/transfer to Ukraine easily.

The biggest hit in the modern times handed to India's face was done without any F-16.

 

[Ak01]

The F-16 is more of a liability now than an asset. What if some parts are needed in about four to five years and the next US admin declines to sell them? Then what?

what if in 5 years china refuses to supply spares? then what?

 

[delta2]

what if in 5 years china refuses to supply spares? then what?

So a time tested friend of almost a century, that stood by you througu everything, is somehow going to decline support on a joint program that never denied you anything in to begin with?

If things come to that, then it would be due to something deserving!!

But then if does happen, you now have the basic industry to build your own jets.

 

[Tank131]

You are stuck in penny wise pound foolish state of mind.

The F-16 is more of a liability now than an asset. What if some parts are needed in about four to five years and the next US admin declines to sell them? Then what?

Sell it now while the USA will approve the sale/transfer to Ukraine easily.

The biggest hit in the modern times handed to India's face was done without any F-16.

What a dumb question? You have 75 F-16s. You will cannibalize what you need to but you kept 40 F-16 flying well with zero accidents (except for hitting a pig on the runway) for nearly 20 in the exact scenario you describe. Iran kept F-14 flying longer than that. Its jot about pennywise. Im not saying you wont need to replace them but yiu have no new spares being acquired for F-7 and Mirages now. They are crashing fast and useless in combat. F-16 is 5 years removed from dominating skies over India/Pak during the 2019 incident and is superior to most of IAF.

 

[delta2]

What a dumb question? You have 75 F-16s. You will cannibalize what you need to but you kept 40 F-16 flying well with zero accidents (except for hitting a pig on the runway) for nearly 20 in the exact scenario you describe. Iran kept F-14 flying longer than that. Its jot about pennywise. Im not saying you wont need to replace them but yiu have no new spares being acquired for F-7 and Mirages now. They are crashing fast and useless in combat. F-16 is 5 years removed from dominating skies over India/Pak during the 2019 incident and is superior to most of IAF.

Where were those F-14s during the recent conflict? Those F-14s are as effective as the Mashaak trainers.

Iran kept flying those F-14s because they purchased needed parts from Israelis on the black market. So is Pakistan's plan now to buy stuff from the Israeli summglers?

You cannot make any significant alterations to an F-16 without the US approval because that violates contract terms. The F-16s must be made available to the US technicians at any time they want to see them. You cannibalise one F-16 without the US approval, they can ground your whole fleet.

The chance is now to sell them, you might not get another. The US policy makers will be very happy to approve the sale/transfer.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The JF17 Program keeps giving dividend every 5 years
Good investment

 

[Tank131]

Where were those F-14s during the recent conflict? Those F-14s are as effective as the Mashaak trainers.

Iran kept flying those F-14s because they purchased needed parts from Israelis on the black market. So is Pakistan's plan now to buy stuff from the Israeli summglers?

You cannot make any significant alterations to an F-16 without the US approval because that violates contract terms. The F-16s must be made available to the US technicians at any time they want to see them. You cannibalise one F-16 without the US approval, they can ground your whole fleet.

The chance is now to sell them, you might not get another. The US policy makers will be very happy to approve the sale/transfer.

Again another useless statement. My point of the F-14s was that they were still flight worthy despite 4 decades of sanctions meaning the mechanisms exist to keep things airworthy. As for not being able to change things on the F-16s yes thats true but for at least another 10 years they will be viable aircraft in the indo-pak region and a real threat to every single fighter in IAF INCLUDING Rafale given the Electronic threat environment and the marriage of F-16 and Erieye. You literally just fought a war where you had over 100 fighters in the air. Currently thos 170-Chinese fighters are backed 75 F-16s. Imagine that they are instead backed only by the 180 Mirage and F-7.there is no depth to that fleet. You are minimum 10 years away from being able to get rid of F-16.

It would be far better to use you new found and temporary bon homie with US to approve their upgrade to be carried out by the Turks (Ozgur) and refit them with Bozdogan (wvr), Gokdogan (mraam), and Gokhan (LrAAM). In the future. And PAF has stockpiled spares from US for many years for these fighters. Any such move by US will be a meaningless gesture for PAF because by the time their stock run out and these jets lose their airworthiness (remember even the A/B were put the a SLEP which could keep them flight worthy till 2050) PAF will actually be in a position to replace them. Now if you can deliver 100-130 front line fighters to PAF in 2 years, then yes, you could consider selling them off. Until then you just dont have the sufficient number of jets to do that (replace all 75 and another 25-55 legacy fighters). You are having a hard enough time replacing the 3rd gen fighters you have now.

 

[Oscar]

So a time tested friend of almost a century, that stood by you througu everything, is somehow going to decline support on a joint program that never denied you anything in to begin with?

If things come to that, then it would be due to something deserving!!

But then if does happen, you now have the basic industry to build your own jets.

You cannot build a single fuselage on your own.

 

[Oscar]

Again another useless statement. My point of the F-14s was that they were still flight worthy despite 4 decades of sanctions meaning the mechanisms exist to keep things airworthy. As for not being able to change things on the F-16s yes thats true but for at least another 10 years they will be viable aircraft in the indo-pak region and a real threat to every single fighter in IAF INCLUDING Rafale given the Electronic threat environment and the marriage of F-16 and Erieye. You literally just fought a war where you had over 100 fighters in the air. Currently thos 170-Chinese fighters are backed 75 F-16s. Imagine that they are instead backed only by the 180 Mirage and F-7.there is no depth to that fleet. You are minimum 10 years away from being able to get rid of F-16.

It would be far better to use you new found and temporary bon homie with US to approve their upgrade to be carried out by the Turks (Ozgur) and refit them with Bozdogan (wvr), Gokdogan (mraam), and Gokhan (LrAAM). In the future. And PAF has stockpiled spares from US for many years for these fighters. Any such move by US will be a meaningless gesture for PAF because by the time their stock run out and these jets lose their airworthiness (remember even the A/B were put the a SLEP which could keep them flight worthy till 2050) PAF will actually be in a position to replace them. Now if you can deliver 100-130 front line fighters to PAF in 2 years, then yes, you could consider selling them off. Until then you just dont have the sufficient number of jets to do that (replace all 75 and another 25-55 legacy fighters). You are having a hard enough time replacing the 3rd gen fighters you have now.

The F-14s were bought with near factory level overhaul equipment and training to Iranian personnel. No discounting Iranian efforts but there is an entire iran-contra affair on support to Iran during the war and the onwards Iran set up an effective smuggling network for its F-4 and F-14 fleets.
However, serviceability of the fleet was fairly low as the years passed on and despite attempts to upgrade it never progressed beyond piecemeal operations.

 

[gamaji]

You cannot build a single fuselage on your own.

Whatever Pakistan is making now was not making twenty years ago. Whatever Pakistan is not making now will be making in next twenty years.

You need to look at the filled half of the glass.

 

[Tank131]

The F-14s were bought with near factory level overhaul equipment and training to Iranian personnel. No discounting Iranian efforts but there is an entire iran-contra affair on support to Iran during the war and the onwards Iran set up an effective smuggling network for its F-4 and F-14 fleets.
However, serviceability of the fleet was fairly low as the years passed on and despite attempts to upgrade it never progressed beyond piecemeal operations.

Bro the point is for 40 years they them flying (cheating, smuggling, scrapping and cannabilizing). Even PAF kept tge majority of their F-16s flying for 20 years with sanctions. The point is that in the short run, another administration cutting off supply of spares for F-16s isnt the death knell he is trying to make it seem. Not nearly the setback that would occur for PAF having to rely more heavily on its 3rd gen fighters having sold F-16s.