China pushes CPEC 2.0 despite fears

[maxpane]

CPEC was a great opportunity wasted by our establishment and politicians . its our pathetic leadership thats is to blame for this failure

 

[ety]

Did you borrow money to invest in infrastructure ? Your rapid industrialization phase started in mid 70s ...by 1990 when you started your infrastructure building phase your economy was on sound footing , you were fast becoming an export power house with decent foreign exchange reserves...... you were never burdened by foreign loans equivalent to 70% of your GDP.

China started economic reform in the end of 1978, first few years concentrated on agri reform, then followed by set up economic zones for exports. The infra building phase started about the same time in the mid 1980s, and massively since the 1990s. Chinese exports and manufacturing really shot up only after China joined WTO in early 2000. China I believe borrowed money from IMF, World Bank and others for infra developments esp in early stages.

 

[mythbuster]

China started economic reform in the end of 1978, first few years concentrated on agri reform, then followed by set up economic zones for exports. The infra building phase started about the same time in the mid 1980s, and massively since the 1990s. Chinese exports and manufacturing really shot up only after China joined WTO in early 2000. China I believe borrowed money from IMF, World Bank and others for infra developments esp in early stages.

During 1990s there were dollar stores all over America packed with Chinese goods .

 

[ety]

During 1990s there were dollar stores all over America packed with Chinese goods .

Sure, China was exporting everyday products to US in the 1990s. China exports to United States in 1995 worth US$ 24.7 billion. China's total exports in 1995 were approximately US$148.8 billion. In 2005, the total value of China's exports was approximately US$762.0 billion.

 

[Cesur]

Dude , name one country in the world who first build infrastructure and then business and industry......start from Europe to North America and then East Asia ......take the example of the biggest proponent of infra development 'CHINA ' ......did she first developed the infrastructure ? Hell no....she started with sweatshops , made money and then went on to develop infrastructure.

Two different cases. Are you building something to get dependent on one country or are you trying to make yourself a hub in the region to facilitate trade between multiple nations.

Case of dependence
Canadian provinces often rely on U.S. routes for quicker travel, given the long, underdeveloped domestic highway links. In today’s geopolitical tensions, Canada may regret that dependence. The pattern shows up in oil too. Canadian crude oil is refined in the U.S. and then back into Canada. Not an ideal situation when you don't have basic infrastructure and U.S as your only major trading partner.

Case of not being dependent
Europe after World War 2 worked on both industry and infrastructure building at the same time. The European Union was established and it pumped a lot of money into road and rail to connect with member states and Eastern Europe saw biggest success. Poland, Hungary, and Czech Republic became industrialized once they opened their trade corridors and investment friendly policies

Turkiye has also poured billions in to its infrastructure. Even though its economy isn't the greatest it has pumped billions into aviation to position itself as an aviation hub by investing in Turkish Airlines and buildings world's largest airport in the world. Likewise, it is working on developing its ports to facilitate trade between Russia and Middle East to Europe to earn huge income. Already it is facilitating oil from Azerbaijan in the Caucus to Syria.

CPEC is unique in the sense it's not just about connectivity between Pakistan and China. It is connectivity between Pakistan with Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Iran and China and Iran and China and Middle East and to ensure success we are expanding our cooperation to industry and agriculture now in the next phase to create jobs and increase exports.

 

[Aziqbal]

We need no fukking Infra projects , we need manufacturing industries that can produce exportable goods ....any dumbass with money can build infrastructure.... developing infra with borrowed money is the worst kind of investment.

That is true

But we need enough energy and power stations to power of factories

And also infrastructure to transport the good

But I agree that comes afterwards

 

[nahtanbob]

Without highways and motorways and railways how do you expect goods to get to ports to export? I won't go into sad state of affairs on the western route through Balochistan which is screaming for infrastructure to get perishable items and billions worth of minerals out for export. If you consider the safest route from Peshawar to Karachi even then there is a lot of work to be done on that side too.

Pakistan exports $25 billions in goods before CPEC was even started. I guess there was no infrastructure

 

[mythbuster]

Pakistan exports $25 billions in goods before CPEC was even started. I guess there was no infrastructure

We have roughly same amount of exports for the last two decades.

 

[mythbuster]

Two different cases. Are you building something to get dependent on one country or are you trying to make yourself a hub in the region to facilitate trade between multiple nations.

Case of dependence
Canadian provinces often rely on U.S. routes for quicker travel, given the long, underdeveloped domestic highway links. In today’s geopolitical tensions, Canada may regret that dependence. The pattern shows up in oil too. Canadian crude oil is refined in the U.S. and then back into Canada. Not an ideal situation when you don't have basic infrastructure and U.S as your only major trading partner.

Case of not being dependent
Europe after World War 2 worked on both industry and infrastructure building at the same time. The European Union was established and it pumped a lot of money into road and rail to connect with member states and Eastern Europe saw biggest success. Poland, Hungary, and Czech Republic became industrialized once they opened their trade corridors and investment friendly policies

Turkiye has also poured billions in to its infrastructure. Even though its economy isn't the greatest it has pumped billions into aviation to position itself as an aviation hub by investing in Turkish Airlines and buildings world's largest airport in the world. Likewise, it is working on developing its ports to facilitate trade between Russia and Middle East to Europe to earn huge income. Already it is facilitating oil from Azerbaijan in the Caucus to Syria.

CPEC is unique in the sense it's not just about connectivity between Pakistan and China. It is connectivity between Pakistan with Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Iran and China and Iran and China and Middle East and to ensure success we are expanding our cooperation to industry and agriculture now in the next phase to create jobs and increase exports.

None of what you wrote in your lengthy post is applicable in Pakistan's case.......we have nothing to export other textiles......all the connectivity is useless unless you produce goods worth exporting.

 

[Cesur]

None of what you wrote in your lengthy post is applicable in Pakistan's case.......we have nothing to export other textiles......all the connectivity is useless unless you produce goods worth exporting.

Nothing to export? I won't go into minerals as that is a long term project. Tell me which country in the Middle East, Central Asia or even in other parts of Asia can grow agriculture like we do? We are growing all sorts of varieties of fruits and vegetables available in this world and from all seasons. If you live in Pakistan you know how much food we have in abundance. Sometimes you don't have to go into manufacturing.

A better question for you. What does the Netherlands produce and position itself into what we can't? It's a tiny country that has become the world's second largest agriculture exporter with Rotterdam being one of the largest ports in the world. Now tell me if we do not have connectivity what will happen to perishable items?

 

[nahtanbob]

Nothing to export? I won't go into minerals as that is a long term project. Tell me which country in the Middle East, Central Asia or even in other parts of Asia can grow agriculture like we do? We are growing all sorts of varieties of fruits and vegetables available in this world and from all seasons. If you live in Pakistan you know how much food we have in abundance. Sometimes you don't have to go into manufacturing.

A better question for you. What does the Netherlands produce and position itself into what we can't? It's a tiny country that has become the world's second largest agriculture exporter with Rotterdam being one of the largest ports in the world. Now tell me if we do not have connectivity what will happen to perishable items?

The Middle East has rivers too. Milk, Eggs, fruits and vegetables are the perishable items we are talking about. It is hard to compete against some of the local producers

 

[mythbuster]

Nothing to export? I won't go into minerals as that is a long term project. Tell me which country in the Middle East, Central Asia or even in other parts of Asia can grow agriculture like we do? We are growing all sorts of varieties of fruits and vegetables available in this world and from all seasons. If you live in Pakistan you know how much food we have in abundance. Sometimes you don't have to go into manufacturing.

A better question for you. What does the Netherlands produce and position itself into what we can't? It's a tiny country that has become the world's second largest agriculture exporter with Rotterdam being one of the largest ports in the world. Now tell me if we do not have connectivity what will happen to perishable items?

What are your total exports and imports ? Your are regurgitating social media and pseudo intellectuals nonsense......I am not into such discussions.....last post on this subject. I am looking forward to some rain Islamabad region ....have a nice day.

 

[Cesur]

The Middle East has rivers too. Milk, Eggs, fruits and vegetables are the perishable items we are talking about. It is hard to compete against some of the local producers

The Middle East don't grow basmati rice, mangoes, red carrots, kinows, cherries, blue berries, blackberries, strawberries, kiwis, pineapples, pears, dragon fruits, avocados, apricots, and various varieties of apples, etc.

Not to forget we also produce date varieties and olive varieties. They are growing in the Middle East but we can challenge them to export in markets close to us like Central Asia, China, and Russia.

 

[nahtanbob]

The Middle East don't grow basmati rice, mangoes, red carrots, kinows, cherries, blue berries, blackberries, strawberries, kiwis, pineapples, pears, dragon fruits, avocados, apricots, and various varieties of apples, etc.

Not to forget we also produce date varieties and olive varieties. They are growing in the Middle East but we can challenge them to export in markets close to us like Central Asia, China, and Russia.

basmati rice is being exported even today all over the world
Dates and olives are grown all over the middle East

Fruits mentioned in your response do not deserve $60 billion INFRA project. You are barely talking about a few billion dollars even if you are successful

 

[Cesur]

basmati rice is being exported even today all over the world
Dates and olives are grown all over the middle East

Fruits mentioned in your response do not deserve $60 billion INFRA project. You are barely talking about a few billion dollars even if you are successful

Read again. I did say dates and olives are grown in the Middle East . I was pointing Pakistan has the potential to export into markets difficult for these middle eastern nations to reach namely Central Asia, China and Russia.

If you are intelligent you wouldn't be just growing fruits or vegetables to export to the Middle East. You can do you something else with it. Also forgot to mention we are a huge dairy producing nation as well. Lots of scope for by-products. Thats why I mentioned the Netherlands and also add Switzerland into this as well as inspiration.

Just so you know this CPEC 2.0 has a lot of agriculture investment. All I'll say to you is Chinese and Pakistanis are not dumb.