Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Yasser76]

No saar, actually all Ra-fails were shot down by mighty PAF, endia was at it's mercy, even IMF is scared of it.

Again, if you say this was not a mock drill, it is on PAF to show any BDA for their strikes at Barnala.

DGAO and DGMO made a lot of claims of hitting frontline Indian installations, causing "major damage", radio.gov.pk outright calls it destruction.

One wonders why isn't the destruction visible...

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BS001, BS021, BS022, BS027

 

[CallSignMaverick]

BS001, BS021, BS022, BS027

So basically PAF lied about destruction of basically everything, along with fake tail numbers...

Pakistan launches

Pakistan launches

radio.gov.pk

 

[kimjongun]

"You claimed lahore port" where did I?

Stop being desperate, share satellite imagery of all this "destruction".

we both know the both countries did a lot of propaganda from "lahore port and and the alleged claim of shooting down a shaheen 3 in the middile of the conflict"lol..to the "electricity grid shutdown" etc...the information we think that supposedly the PAF OR IAF will release after soem time aint coming tbh...if it would have been coming it would already been released on 6th sep from our side as it was released after swift retort...also the mock drills dont involve large explosions...thats like saying we are going to do a emergency drill for a terror attack scenario but the bulllets and lives lost would be real...

 

[Yasser76]

So basically PAF lied about destruction of basically everything, along with fake tail numbers...

Pakistan launches

Pakistan launches

radio.gov.pk

Serial numbers are now fake?

Fake photos, fake shootdowns, fake serial numbers.

I am fake, world is fake, moon is fake.

Anything that makes you see reality is fake.

Anyway, read thread title again and stay on topic and once again....

BS001, BS021, BS022, BS027

 

[kimjongun]

No saar, actually all Ra-fails were shot down by mighty PAF, endia was at it's mercy, even IMF is scared of it.

Thanks for trying to divert the convo to lahore port which I didn't ever mentioned.
Where were we? Yeah the evidence for all of this...

Pakistan launches

Pakistan launches

radio.gov.pk

Again, if you say this was not a mock drill, it is on PAF to show any BDA for their strikes at Barnala.

DGAO and DGMO made a lot of claims of hitting frontline Indian installations, causing "major damage", radio.gov.pk outright calls it destruction.

One wonders why isn't the destruction visible...

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so basically if we talk about the second tweet about how the walls are not warped or anything then the alleged "C2 NODE OR POWER BUILDING AT PAF BASE SHAHBAZ"
destoryed and cutting power to base flunket is also false right..cuz no warped walls

 

[Ak01]

@RescueRanger @Fatman17 wanna clean this thread up

 

[JamD]

tag me too on that reply please. Also @JamD please enlighten us on how to scale our missile production?

unfortunately you are right. we wasted past two and half decades in this bluff but my point is are we now seriously trying to catchup? @JamD please shed some two three para on that for us?

It is a matter of need. As pointed out by some posters already, we only needed to produce 10s of systems, and they would be enough for all of the nukes that we had. Therefore, most of NESCOM orgs produce these systems in what can be best described as extended labs. It doesn't make sense to have a production line if you have 5 orders per year.

With India finding space below our nuclear threshold, our planners have realized the value of conventional deterrence, for which ARFC has been established. This poses a challenge to NESCOM. They have to produce possibly 100s of systems annually. There are some tiny examples of production lines like Qaswa, which can make REKs, but now you'll need production lines for things like Fatah1 and Fatah2. You cannot make hundreds of large missiles in labs.

I think this is a great opportunity to involve the private sector because we essentially have confirmed orders for a long period of time. This is exactly the kind of thing that has the potential to start a local defense industry - an honest-to-God defense industry and not a bunch of small workshops. Furthermore, production lines under NESCOM (like Qaswa) will remain inefficient and a drain on the taxpayer since they have no profit incentive and are managed by career babus.

Great podcast! While listening and doing some research, I asked Grok about Pakistan's capabilities in developing seekers for advanced systems like CAMM-ER and IRIS-T SLM. The response, though possibly not entirely accurate, was quite discouraging regarding our indigenous capabilities. @JamD, how capable are we of designing these seekers indigenously compared to Grok's assessment below?

I don’t fully trust the technical responses from advanced LLMs, so I’m sharing Grok’s reply to get a better sense of how far behind we actually are. Based on the SD-10 program, I believe we may have developed some capability in designing advanced RF and IIR seekers, likely with imported materials from China. Can you provide insight?

That means we can now indegenously atleast for now develop a similar kind of system like IRIS-T for now?

certainly not, id probably hazard a guess that were capable of producing seekers broadly as capable as PL-5/9L seekers.

View attachment 147327

this is an image from an AIM-9X seeker. Extremely high res, but this is an older, less capable seeker design/tech vs IRIS-T/modern ASRAAM. Says alot about the tech. We're probably still in the 70s on the other hand.

As Arsalan has said, we definitely make seekers. But AIM-9C had an IIR seeker and the AIM9X has an IIR seeker. Our seekers are likely not small and sensitive enough for an IRIS-T type missile. Ra'ad is a big boy and has a lot of room. There's also the aspect of radar seekers. We have only now seriously started to invest in local radar solutions, so it will be a while before we can get seekers anywhere good enough for AAMs. With all of this being said, we shouldn't fall into the trap of 100% indigenous. We need to work first as assemblers and then we can progress to manufacturing inputs if it is viable.

JF-17 was a good first step, to which the next step was never taken. Even China started out first buying Russian jets under license production and now they make J20s.

 

[Yasser76]

Lahore port wasn't claimed by any Indian military official, and if there had been a large explosion at AFS, then it would've been picked up by PAF sats and shared as BDA.

Yeah you can add a few more serial numbers, make it 37 Rafales, who cares.

They said it is likely Hatf-1 fragments based on what they could figure out, I don't think so they claimed shaheen shootdown.

So the serial numbers are wrong? As reported by PAF, Alan Warns and General Kiwai?

That is the crux of the think straw you are clutching at?

Everyone is making up serial numbers when there are actual pictures of IAF Rafales with these numbers and even listed here?




My friend, I think the cope has affected your cognitive abilities....

 

[JamD]

On the topic of the Rafale kill. This is something that was speculated on by DCS streamers but seems to be more or less confirmed by PAF:
Yes the PL-15 and meteor might have comparable ranges. However, the PL-15 has MUCH better kinematic performance than the meteor in the sense that it achieves that range much quicker. It is able to do this because it flies in the higher/thinner atmosphere as it has no need to fly lower and slower for feeding its ramjet, which the Meteor must do. Evidently, this advantage is so stark it lets J10s kill Rafales most of the time. Yes the PL15 is heavier but here this weight seems to be super useful and this is a huge negative point for ramjet-powered AAMs.
An interesting thing to note is how the USA isn't going for ramjet AAMs for their next-gen missiles (and hasn't gone for them in current gen either). This should tell us something.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

It is a matter of need. As pointed out by some posters already, we only needed to produces 10s of systems, and they would be enough for all of the nukes that we had. Therefore, most of NESCOM orgs produce these systems in what can be best describe as extended labs. It doesn't make sense to have a production line if you have 5 orders per year.

With India finding space below our nuclear threshold, our planners have realized the value of conventional deterrence, for which ARFC has been established. This poses a challenge to NESCOM. They have to produce possibly 100s of systems annually. There are some tiny examples of production lines like Qaswa, which can make REKs, but now you'll need production lines for things like Fatah1 and Fatah2. You cannot make hundreds of large missiles in labs.

I think this is a great opportunity to involve the private sector because we essentially have confirmed orders for a long period of time. This is exactly the kind of thing that has the potential to start a local defense industry - an honest-to-God defense industry and not a bunch of small workshops. Furthermore, production lines under NESCOM (like Qaswa) will remain inefficient and a drain on the taxpayer since they have no profit incentive and are managed by career babus.











As Arsalan has said, we definitely make seekers. But AIM-9C had an IIR seeker and the AIM9X has an IIR seeker. Our seekers are likely not small and sensitive enough for an IRIS-T type missile. Ra'ad is a big boy and has a lot of room. There's also the aspect of radar seekers. We have only now seriously started to invest in local radar solutions, so it will be a while before we can get seekers anywhere good enough for AAMs. With all of this being said, we shouldn't fall into the trap of 100% indigenous. We need to work first as assemblers and then we can progress to manufacturing inputs if it is viable.

JF-17 was a good first step, to which the next step was never taken. Even China started out first buying Russian jets under license production and now they make J20s.

I wish the babus sitting above should see this post. All are very fine and rational suggestions. we should not waste time anymore.

 

[Ak01]

An interesting thing to note is how the USA isn't going for ramjet AAMs for their next-gen missiles (and hasn't gone for them in current gen either). This should tell us something.

this is something i kept harping on about aswell but i think people tend to get caught up in fancy things.

 

[Fatman17]

@RescueRanger @Fatman17 wanna clean this thread up

Ok I will check

 

[JamD]

this is something i kept harping on about aswell but i think people tend to get caught up in fancy things.

People falling for marketing is kind of the point of marketing lol. However, it is good to know that people that matter look at science and simulations.

 

[falcon34]

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The cope is insane the Lindu posted a 2 yr old photo, absolute clowns

 

[falcon34]

this is not strictly true- i did some math and an effective subsonic cm is as effective as a supersonic, im a bit busy at the moment but i will re tag you later with a proper post. im a huge supporter of continued subsonic investment

Finally someone sane guy, who whose not obsessed with speed, we need a hundreds of Baburs and thousands of Sarkash munitions.