Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion
- Thread starter Yasser76
- Start date
RajaBaja
Trusted Member
For some unknown reason, I was banned from posting on this thread from last night until just now. Now that it's been resolved, I can post again.
I seem to have sensed something. My comments last night sparked some controversy. I tried to explain them, but a mysterious force silenced me......
But that's not important now. Let's keep our respective perspectives and move on. Therefore, I won't respond to everyone individually.
I'm usually very direct in my approach. I don't like to mince words. Occasionally, I'll use teasing, joking, or sarcasm to express my opinion on certain matters. But I don't like to insult others. Of course, if any of my jokes are considered insulting, my Pakistani friends can remind me. This is not what I really mean.
===================================================
But, about @RajaBaja, I must strongly protest. Your unwarranted slander against me is unacceptable.
On the topic of "Second Meals and Rolls-Royces", here is a link to the original speech.
First, you proactively invited me to comment on this issue. I expressed my honest opinion. I don't want to comment on such a boring topic. But you keep pestering me. ------ Considering other threads and related posts, this isn't the first time you've raised this issue with me. You've repeatedly invited me to comment on this in multiple threads.
Second, this metaphorical statement was directed at your delusional thinking. It wasn't insulting in any way.
But, here you are spouting “I am insulting Pakistanis for not being able to afford a second meal”. You claim that I am anti-Pakistan. This statement is only directed at your personal opinion. If you insist on thinking it is insulting, then it is only directed at this opinion, not at you personally, let alone at Pakistan as a whole.
In fact, you actively spread all kinds of unrealistic fantasies in this forum. Even many Pakistani friends do not agree with your fantasy thinking.
Pakistan still has a large population of poor people and a large number of Pakistanis who have never received an education.
Even in many Pakistani cities, there is still a serious lack of basic living facilities (housing, water, electricity, gas, food, transportation, etc).
Pakistan still has a large international debt.
Pakistan still faces serious security problems.
Pakistan still has fierce internal political struggles.
...... Pakistanis know this better than I do. I don't want to mention these issues.
But, in this situation, you continue to promote your fantasy thinking. When even the simplest airframe manufacturing work of the 4th-Gen fighter JF-17B3 has not been fully completed, you are advocating that Pakistan should start producing the 5th-Gen fighter. You even want Pakistan to produce manned advanced fighter jets based on China's latest unmanned air combat aircraft.
When a reasonable person refutes your view, you think he is anti-Pakistan. What kind of bull$hit logic is that?
Michael - You are derailing a thread that has NOTHING to do with your issues from the past. May want to open a separate discussion and I'll respond if need be. There is no "slander". These statements are made by you on these threads. One can audit and find them. They are VERY insulting. I called you out immediately on those not just yesterday.
Yes, I ALWAYS include you into my posts because I've seen your analysis about Chinese things and I respect it.
I am way over qualified to be on an online forum but thought I'd share what I know for a few days. So, in that, I know dozens of things I can ALSO write "directly" and then hurt the Chinese members feelings and one sunny day, apologize.
But it will ruin the culture here. We are all partners. Let's be mindful of writing about Pakistan and Pakistanis just like we are about China. There was a recent discussion where someone accused China of "bribes", who jumped in and cut it off? ME! Because I respect you and China and know good that China has done to us.
If you insult me, I can smile. But please don't write what seems insulting to my country and my people. Regards!
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RajaBaja
Trusted Member
What happened to this? LOL
Indian verbal diarrhea full expected and fully allowed. Becharon ko kuch to karnay do
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
Both Saudia Arabia and Pakistan need to work out, asap, how to translate this treaty into something actionable.
Logically Pakistan needs to create an expeditionary force that it can relocate to Saudi Arabia at a moments notice. For the aerial component, it will need to consist of multiple squadrons of J10CE/JF17s(and eventually J-35s) backed by KJ-500s and Y20s to support the logistical train from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia. The premise being that Saudia Arabia fund this new force and it can be moved between Pakistan and Saudia Arabia. The advantage for Pakistan is that this new force can be used to defend Pakistan also.
Both sides would need to integrate their side of this expeditionary force into the air arm of the other country and train accordingly.
Saudia Arabia equally needs to create expeditionary force of its airforce that can relocate to the Pakistan at a moments notice aswell. The issue that Saudia may face is the restrictions on some of their weapons on where/how potentially they can use them( normally the American stuff, the Europe stuff does not come with these restrictions ).
There will need to be a land component to this expeditionary force aswell, will leave it to others to determine a makeup.
To me, this is the best / most logical way to put some "teeth" into the new treaty.
Logically Pakistan needs to create an expeditionary force that it can relocate to Saudi Arabia at a moments notice. For the aerial component, it will need to consist of multiple squadrons of J10CE/JF17s(and eventually J-35s) backed by KJ-500s and Y20s to support the logistical train from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia. The premise being that Saudia Arabia fund this new force and it can be moved between Pakistan and Saudia Arabia. The advantage for Pakistan is that this new force can be used to defend Pakistan also.
Both sides would need to integrate their side of this expeditionary force into the air arm of the other country and train accordingly.
Saudia Arabia equally needs to create expeditionary force of its airforce that can relocate to the Pakistan at a moments notice aswell. The issue that Saudia may face is the restrictions on some of their weapons on where/how potentially they can use them( normally the American stuff, the Europe stuff does not come with these restrictions ).
There will need to be a land component to this expeditionary force aswell, will leave it to others to determine a makeup.
To me, this is the best / most logical way to put some "teeth" into the new treaty.
Yasser76
Elite Member
- Thread starter
- #546
True, genrally though they tend to follow the Saudis over the longer term.
Inevitebly they will be asking serious questions to the Israelis, it will be up to them to then decide, but interestingly even before the Qatar strikes UAE was openly attacking Israel over Gaza for the first time
FarhanSiddiqui
Registered Member
Pakistan Armed forces will now have funding from serving in the Saudi Arabia and hopefully that will free up some cash for the economic development of the country. I think timing was perfect as May armed clash with India was followed by the Zionazi attack on Qatar and made some Arabs wake up.
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Uzair Khan
Registered Member
Ah yes the indians where the entire Indian twitter bots become active when putin even looks towards modi with a smile ARE trying to downplay our mutual defense agreement with the largest country of middle east . Come-on u people are so i dont know the right word but beghairat it is going to be that Modi was fake laughing with that Chinese PM who had provided every means possible from satellitle access to missiles in a war against India just a month earlier because u have finally realized u cant compete with China might as well bend before them now. U an I both know Indian twitter would go into a frenzy if India even manages to sign a defense treaty with Bhutan. WE need to realize we need to bring the war to israel because Israel has already brought the war to Pakistan in the form of TTP and BLA and this is a great foundational step.
FuturePAF
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
If Pakistan is to extend its nuclear umbrella to these countries, at the very least there should funding to expand the arsenal dramatically, from the current 200 to at least 500. Second the rocket force needs to be dramatically expanded, in quantity and quality. Deterrence has to be strong enough on the conventional side as to have rungs on the escalation ladder that can be saved rattled to dissuade aggressors.
Realistically, Pakistan will face blowback, incur costs, and need to build up more capabilities to fulfill the mission of extending protection.
All this can start by Saudi’s funding the KAAN program and Turkish air defense missiles programs, with funding to busy out the facilities to manufacture these aircraft across all three countries, so R&D can be sped up and production rates can be high enough to meet the needs of all countries. Saudi investment into the PFX program (powered by a single TF-35000) would allow all three nations (and any partners that join the program) to be able to field a backbone aircraft that can be build in numbers.
Saudi’s could also start by helping to find the entire movement of the means to produce the JF-17 to Pakistan. Full supply chain and help train the technical teams to be able to fully make the jet. Once complete; the PFX-Alpha; reduced RCS JF-17 could be build.
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
BrigSmart
Registered Member
If Israel brings the war to Pakistan, it won't be through TTP and BLA, but B-2s bombing Pakistani nuclear installations.
I removed your thread ban but you are discussing off topic. Pakistan is very different to what you are suggesting actually. Pakistan is not as poor as you seem to think about. Most people are living a perfect life in Pakistan. If their income is low, the expenses are also low compared to rest of the world.For some unknown reason, I was banned from posting on this thread from last night until just now. Now that it's been resolved, I can post again.
I seem to have sensed something. My comments last night sparked some controversy. I tried to explain them, but a mysterious force silenced me......
But that's not important now. Let's keep our respective perspectives and move on. Therefore, I won't respond to everyone individually.
I'm usually very direct in my approach. I don't like to mince words. Occasionally, I'll use teasing, joking, or sarcasm to express my opinion on certain matters. But I don't like to insult others. Of course, if any of my jokes are considered insulting, my Pakistani friends can remind me. This is not what I really mean.
===================================================
But, about @RajaBaja, I must strongly protest. Your unwarranted slander against me is unacceptable.
On the topic of "Second Meals and Rolls-Royces", here is a link to the original speech.
First, you proactively invited me to comment on this issue. I expressed my honest opinion. I don't want to comment on such a boring topic. But you keep pestering me. ------ Considering other threads and related posts, this isn't the first time you've raised this issue with me. You've repeatedly invited me to comment on this in multiple threads.
Second, this metaphorical statement was directed at your delusional thinking. It wasn't insulting in any way.
But, here you are spouting “I am insulting Pakistanis for not being able to afford a second meal”. You claim that I am anti-Pakistan. This statement is only directed at your personal opinion. If you insist on thinking it is insulting, then it is only directed at this opinion, not at you personally, let alone at Pakistan as a whole.
In fact, you actively spread all kinds of unrealistic fantasies in this forum. Even many Pakistani friends do not agree with your fantasy thinking.
Pakistan still has a large population of poor people and a large number of Pakistanis who have never received an education.
Even in many Pakistani cities, there is still a serious lack of basic living facilities (housing, water, electricity, gas, food, transportation, etc).
Pakistan still has a large international debt.
Pakistan still faces serious security problems.
Pakistan still has fierce internal political struggles.
...... Pakistanis know this better than I do. I don't want to mention these issues.
But, in this situation, you continue to promote your fantasy thinking. When even the simplest airframe manufacturing work of the 4th-Gen fighter JF-17B3 has not been fully completed, you are advocating that Pakistan should start producing the 5th-Gen fighter. You even want Pakistan to produce manned advanced fighter jets based on China's latest unmanned air combat aircraft.
When a reasonable person refutes your view, you think he is anti-Pakistan. What kind of bull$hit logic is that?
Baibers_1260
Trusted Member
Pakistanis are not "mercenaries for hire. ". Apologies for breaking your "saffron tinted " lenses but here is a more realistic view . Pakistan can't afford to be "mercenaries for hire"even if it wanted to. Pakistan learned it's lesson in Afghanistan fighting the Soviet Union in the 1980s.
With an existential threat Pakistan is facing on its eastern border from an enemy that is seven times larger militarily, and is ideologically committed to its destruction there is little scope for getting involved in any distant foreign conflict.
Pakistan cares a rat's rear what happens to Palestinians and Arabs who sealed their fate when they helped to topple the Ottoman Empire. Pakistan is well aware that the so called "Muslim" unity is the biggest hoax down the ages and is under no delusion that this "Muslim unity " is any real today than it was in 1971 when a civil war tore the country apart.
Pakistan is right now solely focused on surviving the savage vile threat of Hindutva, that is driving a 1.4 billion population war and vengeance crazed nation led by a fascist regime to mutual destruction.
Pakistan has no illusions from where the threat is and it's not Israel. This Mutual Defense treaty is a scrap of paper. If India thinks Pakistan will be distracted and plunged inti a Middle Eastern war weakening it, is in for a nasty surprise.
