Royal Saudi Arabian Strategic Missile Force

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Don’t necessarily disagree but if you only have a few dozen missiles or a little more than that not really something you want to fire off in tests let’s just assuming these are either for a first strike or a last resort option either way you want to have enough to strike anything of strategic importance

Ballistic missiles have shelf life

If you have a stockpile of ballistic missiles since the 1980s, they would've been periodically tested to ensure they still work and those tests would've been reported by international media at least if not by the national media.

 

[The SC]

Ballistic missiles have shelf life

If you have a stockpile of ballistic missiles since the 1980s, they would've been periodically tested to ensure they still work and those tests would've been reported by international media at least if not by the national media.

It all depends on the maintenance.. mostly when the missiles, the war heads and engines are dismounted and perserved in good condition in the right temperatures and humidity levels..

 

[Watandar]

Nukes, hydrogen bombs and a cobalt bomb (just in case we need our own Samson Option) is the need of the hour.

We have the missiles already (with many more to come) the uranium in house (5-10% of all the world's uranium reserves are found in KSA) and the political will should be there already. In fact from the very second that Israel received their nukes.

If need be, and we somehow don't yet have access to nuclear weapons, offer Pakistan, North Korea or China whatever it takes to build up a nuclear infrastructure within KSA.

I also hope that a future nuclear plant will be built in Haql (30 km distance from Eilat/Ilat and 51.5 km by road) just in case the Jews get any silly ideas.

That will put you squarely in the crosshairs of the Jews just like Osirik in Iraq or Natanz/Fordow in Iran. I forgot the site of that Syrian program.

Who is going to stop the Israelis when they inevitably come to attack these Saudi facilities ?

 

[Michael]

So, are there no flight launches, test launches and training launches of ballistic missiles reported since the 1980s?
Whether a program is secret or not, regular missile tests are necessary to ensure they still work and/or if any improvements need to be tested.

Are you referring to live-fire tests?

For such a strategically large missile, live-fire tests pose a significant challenge.
1. They can easily lead to misjudgment by "neighbors" within range.
2. Live-fire tests require significant manpower, material, and financial resources.
In short, such live-fire tests are a significant military operation.

Secondly, Saudi Arabia itself lacks many of the necessary conditions for such tests.
1. They require an absolutely safe testing environment. From launch, flight, and impact, all areas must be under absolute control.
2. They require extensive remote sensing and monitoring systems (even more extensive than those required for a combat launch).

In 1980, China conducted its first full-scale ICBM flight test. At the time, China dispatched a massive fleet consisting of two space measurement vessels, two scientific research vessels, six missile destroyers, and a large number of support vessels to the target area in the South Pacific.

At the same time, the United States, the Soviet Union, Japan, Australia, and other countries also deployed numerous warships and aircraft for tracking and reconnaissance. At the warhead's scheduled impact point, various parties attempted to seize the test warhead (actually a data testing chamber containing a large amount of testing equipment). Ultimately, Chinese escort vessels forcibly drove it away, and Chinese researchers were the first to recover the warhead.

China has not conducted such tests since then. It wasn't until last year that we conducted our second test (of the DF-31). But this time, no one came to seize the warhead.

There are many more practical methods for missile testing. In reality, countries rarely conduct live-fire tests. If Saudi Arabia needs to conduct such a test, China has a complete testing environment. This does not need to be done within Saudi Arabia.

I wish that we could know more as amateur military enthusiasts. The level of secrecy is very frustrating.

When it comes to the confidentiality of military technology and information, no country in the world is more stringent than China. The information the Chinese government chooses to disclose is only released after a thorough review process.

A PLA general once said in an interview with Western media:
When we disclose our information, you accuse us of posing a threat.
When we conceal our information, you accuse us of military opacity.
So, do you prefer us to disclose it or not?

Just kidding.
Don't worry, this isn't a leak!

 

[FuturePAF]

Are you referring to live-fire tests?

For such a strategically large missile, live-fire tests pose a significant challenge.
1. They can easily lead to misjudgment by "neighbors" within range.
2. Live-fire tests require significant manpower, material, and financial resources.
In short, such live-fire tests are a significant military operation.

Secondly, Saudi Arabia itself lacks many of the necessary conditions for such tests.
1. They require an absolutely safe testing environment. From launch, flight, and impact, all areas must be under absolute control.
2. They require extensive remote sensing and monitoring systems (even more extensive than those required for a combat launch).

In 1980, China conducted its first full-scale ICBM flight test. At the time, China dispatched a massive fleet consisting of two space measurement vessels, two scientific research vessels, six missile destroyers, and a large number of support vessels to the target area in the South Pacific.

At the same time, the United States, the Soviet Union, Japan, Australia, and other countries also deployed numerous warships and aircraft for tracking and reconnaissance. At the warhead's scheduled impact point, various parties attempted to seize the test warhead (actually a data testing chamber containing a large amount of testing equipment). Ultimately, Chinese escort vessels forcibly drove it away, and Chinese researchers were the first to recover the warhead.

China has not conducted such tests since then. It wasn't until last year that we conducted our second test (of the DF-31). But this time, no one came to seize the warhead.

There are many more practical methods for missile testing. In reality, countries rarely conduct live-fire tests. If Saudi Arabia needs to conduct such a test, China has a complete testing environment. This does not need to be done within Saudi Arabia.

When it comes to the confidentiality of military technology and information, no country in the world is more stringent than China. The information the Chinese government chooses to disclose is only released after a thorough review process.

A PLA general once said in an interview with Western media:
When we disclose our information, you accuse us of posing a threat.
When we conceal our information, you accuse us of military opacity.
So, do you prefer us to disclose it or not?

Just kidding.
Don't worry, this isn't a leak!

Now with the defense agreement in place, the Saudis could test from Somiani in Pakistan, clear line of sight all the way down to Antarctica. Saudi investment there could turn it into a proper satellite launch facility for launches into polar orbit as well.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Are you referring to live-fire tests?

For such a strategically large missile, live-fire tests pose a significant challenge.
1. They can easily lead to misjudgment by "neighbors" within range.
2. Live-fire tests require significant manpower, material, and financial resources.
In short, such live-fire tests are a significant military operation.

Secondly, Saudi Arabia itself lacks many of the necessary conditions for such tests.
1. They require an absolutely safe testing environment. From launch, flight, and impact, all areas must be under absolute control.
2. They require extensive remote sensing and monitoring systems (even more extensive than those required for a combat launch).

In 1980, China conducted its first full-scale ICBM flight test. At the time, China dispatched a massive fleet consisting of two space measurement vessels, two scientific research vessels, six missile destroyers, and a large number of support vessels to the target area in the South Pacific.

At the same time, the United States, the Soviet Union, Japan, Australia, and other countries also deployed numerous warships and aircraft for tracking and reconnaissance. At the warhead's scheduled impact point, various parties attempted to seize the test warhead (actually a data testing chamber containing a large amount of testing equipment). Ultimately, Chinese escort vessels forcibly drove it away, and Chinese researchers were the first to recover the warhead.

China has not conducted such tests since then. It wasn't until last year that we conducted our second test (of the DF-31). But this time, no one came to seize the warhead.

There are many more practical methods for missile testing. In reality, countries rarely conduct live-fire tests. If Saudi Arabia needs to conduct such a test, China has a complete testing environment. This does not need to be done within Saudi Arabia. ...

All that is very nice but I am referring to the Saudi ballistic missiles which are not ICBM's.

Where are their training tests to ensure they still meet the test parameters? Where are their flight tests of new short-range ballistic missiles that show their missile program has expanded since the 1980s.

All I see on this thread is photographs of some military facilities supposedly for ballistic missiles.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Now with the defense agreement in place, the Saudis could test from Somiani in Pakistan, clear line of sight all the way down to Antarctica. Saudi investment there could turn it into a proper satellite launch facility for launches into polar orbit as well.

A missile just needs to be test-fired from Point A to Point B.

Considering Saudi Arabia is almost three times larger than Pakistan in area, why would they need to test them in Pakistan? Are there any known restrictions on their missile testing within Saudi Arabia?

 

[Michael]

All that is very nice but I am referring to the Saudi ballistic missiles which are not ICBM's.

Where are their training tests to ensure they still meet the test parameters? Where are their flights of news short-range ballistic missiles that show their missile program has expanded since the 1980s.

All I see on this thread is photographs of some military facilities supposedly for ballistic missiles.

1. The full range of either the DF-3 or DF-21 exceeds the maximum size of Saudi Arabia's territory, and Saudi Arabia has virtually no control over the Arabian Sea. They lack full-range coverage.
2. Testing medium- and long-range ballistic missiles is more complex than launching them in combat. This requires extensive remote sensing, monitoring, and control infrastructure. Furthermore, these facilities must ensure full-range monitoring.
3. As for short-range missile testing, such matters simply won't make the news. They are extremely minor.

=============================================================

India has been a laughing stock internationally, including its missile tests, where they themselves didn't even know where their missiles were flying. This is a classic example of a lack of comprehensive monitoring capabilities.

Most countries possessing medium- and long-range ballistic missiles lack the ability to monitor their movements throughout their missions. Often, they don't know whether their missiles were intercepted mid-flight, whether they ultimately hit their targets, or what the damage was...... They are usually manually confirmed by agents lying in ambush near the target, and often even confirmed through satellite photos from other countries.

If your missile test target is on the high seas, you must have sufficient capabilities to ensure that you get the test warhead. Otherwise, your test results will be snatched away by other countries.

A missile just needs to be test-fired from Point A to Point B.

That is not true. At least, when it comes to missile testing, it is completely wrong.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... 3. As for short-range missile testing, such matters simply won't make the news. They are extremely minor. ...

A ballistic missile test is a missile test, big or small. It's no small feat to test a ballistic missile of any range.

From your posts, all I've gleaned so far is that Saudi Arabia dies not have any battlefield range, short-range, medium-range and intermediate range ballistic missiles in its arsenal.

Also, how do you think Pakistan tests it's Shaheen ballistic missiles with a 2,700 range? Pakistan obviously doesn't fly it from north of Pakistan to South of Pakistan as that's only around 1,800 Kms.

 

[Michael]

From your posts, all I've gleaned so far is that Saudi Arabia dies not have any battlefield range, short-range, medium-range and intermediate range ballistic missiles in its arsenal.

Did Saudi Arabia test a ballistic missile? That's not important.
Or, did they test one? Did they announce it? None of that matters.
What matters is that everyone knows they have the DF-3/DF-21 and that they are very reliable. That's all.
I don't have enough knowledge of their military to determine the true situation. I can only make a judgment based on general knowledge.

Also, how do you think Pakistan tests it's Shaheen ballistic missiles with a 2,700 range? Pakistan obviously doesn't fly it from north of Pakistan to South of Pakistan as that's only around 1,800 Kms.

Medium- and long-range ballistic missiles or intercontinental ballistic missiles. For testing of these long-range missiles, if the country lacks the necessary conditions, a high-altitude trajectory is often used.

This means the missile is launched to a higher altitude, which is then converted numerically to its actual combat range. This also allows for accurate measurement of the missile's performance.

The DPRK's missiles all use this method.

Most Chinese missiles also use this method. To date, China has only conducted two full-range ICBM tests; the rest have been high-altitude trajectory tests.

This method is very common.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... Medium- and long-range ballistic missiles or intercontinental ballistic missiles. For testing of these long-range missiles, if the country lacks the necessary conditions, a high-altitude trajectory is often used.

This means the missile is launched to a higher altitude, which is then converted numerically to its actual combat range. This also allows for accurate measurement of the missile's performance. ...

That's correct so why say the following?

"1. The full range of either the DF-3 or DF-21 exceeds the maximum size of Saudi Arabia's territory, and Saudi Arabia has virtually no control over the Arabian Sea. They lack full-range coverage."​

Saudi Arabia is nearly 3 times larger than Pakistan and nearly 18 times larger than North Korea?

So whilst Pakistan and North Korea have conducted scores of ballistic missile tests in the last 30-years, Saudi Arabia has not conducted even a single test to date because you believe they don't have the resources, infrastructure, manpower or the area for such a thing.

 

[Michael]

That's correct so why say the following?

"1. The full range of either the DF-3 or DF-21 exceeds the maximum size of Saudi Arabia's territory, and Saudi Arabia has virtually no control over the Arabian Sea. They lack full-range coverage."​

Saudi Arabia is nearly 3 times larger than Pakistan and nearly 18 times larger than North Korea?

So whilst Pakistan and North Korea have conducted scores of ballistic missile tests in the last 30-years, Saudi Arabia has not conducted even a single test to date because you believe they don't have the resources, infrastructure, manpower or the area for such a thing.

I don't know the specifics.
Yes, according to public information, they haven't conducted such tests in Saudi Arabia, at least not yet.
They don't have the conditions for full-scale testing. They lack the relevant monitoring systems for high-altitude ballistic missiles. Of course, the most important question is whether they are interested in conducting such a project. They directly purchased finished Chinese ballistic missiles, which are reliable.
As for whether they obtained the technology to produce them locally, I don't know. Golden Wheel Project Company has been stationed in Saudi Arabia. What happened there? No one knows.

 

[_Arabia_]

That will put you squarely in the crosshairs of the Jews just like Osirik in Iraq or Natanz/Fordow in Iran. I forgot the site of that Syrian program.

Who is going to stop the Israelis when they inevitably come to attack these Saudi facilities ?

The difference between those sites/countries is that we are talking about KSA with all due respect. Different level altogether, different political/economic/religious clout/sway/influence/partners. Not to mention geographic proximity.

Is tiny Israel ready to risk nuclear malhama?

KSA is going to built 10-15 nuclear power plants in the not too distant future all across KSA (the size of Western Europe and one of the most challenging terrains in the world). There is no way for Israel or anybody else to prevent that from occurring unless they are seeking a nuclear winter for the world.

Similarly how they have not targetted the Barakah nuclear power plant in the UAE.

The only reason why Israel appears strong is solely due to the slavery of the US, West and NATO who act as their obedient slaves and allow them to act how they want to without any consequences. Not to mention giving them and supplying them with the best available technology. Free economic handouts as well. There is absolutely nothing impressive about that. Give such a support to even the smallest/weakest Arab states in the Arab world and we would see a similar results against defenceless people/militants.

With the West slowly but steadily waking up to the problems that Israel is causing and Israel losing support among even conservatives in the US and West, as well as the future demographics in Western Europe, their current immunity is on loan. They will come back to earth in the not so distant future and the Palestinians (who outnumber them already in Palestine combined as a whole) are not going anywhere either.


@Pakistan Space Agency

Why should KSA draw unwanted attention in order to test missiles (either those imported from China or those made locally) that can easily be tested underground (as I already wrote in facilities that are already present and have been present for 40 + years in numerous locations all over KSA), and when similarly those missiles are actively get up to date constantly?

Not to mention that the overall secrecy suits KSA perfectly and acts like a deterrent.

You want KSA to capitulate just like Iran due to stupid bravado? We are not talking about North Korea here but one of the most visited countries on earth (KSA) and one of the most connected countries with the outside world economically that happens to have cordial relations with all relevant powers in the world. Added scrutiny in this region is the last thing that any leadership or country needs. You need to be smart. No doubt the likes of Egypt are following a similar policy. Go look it up.

Pakistan, given the India angle and geography, is a totally different scenario altogether.

 

[_Arabia_]

Speaking of the devil, Zionist/Israeli observers are already doing the talking online.

Basically posts from precisely 1 week ago.

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[_Arabia_]

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