Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[mythbuster]

The whole situation is a little more comely then envisaged here.
There are many nations who have maintained a working relationships with two adversaries.
A very good example here is Turkish-Israel equality. Till recently, Turkey had a raging bilateral business with Israel, while it was politically a very open anti-Israel policy. Was there any outrage at this double speak? Did it impact Turkey-Pakistan relationship?
Turkey and Saudi have almost non functional relationship. Pakistan and Saudi have a raging one. Would Turkey have an issue with this Pak-Saudi treaty?

Compared to that Indo-Israel one isn’t much different.
Moreover, Saudi Arabia isn’t a threat to Israel in any way at all. Just because India buys military equipment from Israel, it isn’t likely to sour our equation with Saudi’s.

You don't have the pull to do what other countries are doing in their foreign relations......quwa Chala hans ki chaal apni chaal b bhool gaya.

 

[Liquidator]

brother do you really belive that intelligence agencies follow moral and ethical values. i dnt think so. its brutal game if people know how it works they would all be stunned and wont believe a single words which is going

Who are these pigs trying to kid.

A cancer needs chemotherapy, not herbal.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Indians are not irrational, they are very calculating, but just make the wrong calculations. Trying to be too clever by half, sometimes you need principles, because principles can act as a guard against being too cunning.


My interpretation is Ukraine and then Gaza changed a lot for India, made the balancing act impossible

Furthermore, America must have had a timer in mind with respect to India taking China's seriously


All happened at once

But crucially, India clearly was not going to posture aggressively versus China - ok thanks but no thanks.

not that the Americans are stupid because in built within the relationship were incentives that can easily be pulled away, this is what we are seeing now.

Fine if you don't want to be a meaningful ally, please have your non alignment and usa take back our generosity .... Enjoy your non alignment


The lack of principles, on the Ukraine war they refused to support the global North

With Gaza they turn a blind eye to the global South



A massive nothing burger, with so-called interests that no one cares for

The Pakistan skirmish, also usefully dented French military equipment

Without making a value judgement, Pakistan understands that you need commitment to get something out, and so does the rest of the world compared to India

the last episode was very painful, the soviets, but a nuclear program was achieved


This time round, Pakistan is wiser and more diversified

In the Bharati mindset, being super clever and cunning is imperative to maximize one's gains while minimizing others. They assume everybody else is working on the same SOP; therefore, failure is no option for it turns them into a loser. It's a part of their rock-solid behavioral genetics with evolutionary traits. Look at the face of any random Bharati, and you can immediately fathom it for the face is the mirror of the mind....

 

[r3alist]

Has Indian not said doggedly they are non aligned ?


Does that mean the whole world should also be non-aligned to keep them nice and cosy with bilateral relationships


This is the emotional awareness of a child

 

[r3alist]

In the Bharati mindset, being super clever and cunning is imperative to maximize one's gains while minimizing others. They assume everybody else is working on the same SOP; therefore, failure is no option for it turns them into a loser. It's a part of their rock-solid behavioral genetics with evolutionary traits.....

Well.... By forceful choice I never try to be deterministic about people, trying to be an optimist.

Trying.

 

[TAC]

I ask again
Are you ready to risk your nation and people against Israel
You are seeing already Israel is military super power in this region
What have you signed up for ?
Defending Saudi ..
Saudi has two enemies
Israel and Iran
You ready for this commitment

You are so full of cope and s**t. How many times u want a reply to this? The deal is already signed, both countries have made what it means very clear including Nuclear cover and you keep asking if ‘you people are ready for this commitment’!!!? You really need to catch up. Here, watch this from one of the very few fair and independent thought Indian analysts left, and try to cope better.

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[gamaji]

700 Qadianis are serving Zionazi genocidal army ? I am not surprised they are duplicitous and want the Muslims defeated on their knees so that they can spread their vomit. They started when the Muslims were defeated and demoralized by the British in 1880s. Now they want to create same environment .

Yes, some observers claim they want a subdued (or even undone) Pakistan having soft borders (or no borders) so that these people can have free access to their 'sacred' places in India just like Sikhs have to Kartarpur in Pakistan.

 

[Vkdindian1]

You don't have the pull to do what other countries are doing in their foreign relations

Why is that so? What pull, Turkey had that India doesn’t have?
What about the pull capability of Pakistan?

Modi has been given highest civilian award by almost each and every ME country. And they didn’t give it out of kindheartedness.

Past few months have been a little BAD. But, before that India was doing pretty well. Russian oil, S400, US military equipment etc are all examples of that.
I do agree with your assessment of Quwa trying Hans ki chal and getting lost.
But who is Quwa and who is Hans can’t be deduced so fast in geopolitics.
I will hold my verdict for the time being.

 

[Tamerlane]

Really interesting article by Chatham House, could be US approves of Pak-Saudi pact as Pak nuke umbrella means Saudi will not develop it's own nukes.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2025/09/saudi-arabia-and-pakistans-mutual-defence-pact-sets-precedent-extended-deterrence

The article says that Pakistan has less than 200 nuclear bombs. For some reason, in the public space at least, for many years Pakistan’s estimated arsenal of nukes has been frozen at under 200. It assumes that no new ones are being manufactured any more. In reality, Pakistan could have anywhere from 300-500–enough to “take down half the world.”

Analysts, especially adversaries, need to be careful not to underestimate what can happen to them.

 

[r3alist]

You are so full of cope and s**t. How many times u want a reply to this? The deal is already signed, both countries have made what it means very clear including Nuclear cover and you keep asking if ‘you people are ready for this commitment’!!!? You really need to catch up. Here, watch this from one of the very few fair and independent thought Indian analysts left, and try to cope better.

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Ideally, everyone should just go radio silence on it

Because there will be lots of conjecture and undoubtedly much of it will be off the mark


And that's the exact space these guys have a reflexive instinct for

The NATO talk made me cringe, the Indian media leads with this, knowing it is of course ambitious

The Saudis are playing it right

 

[Oscar]

Mark of a failing, if not failed, society. It's the "other", the one below, or the one over there. Surely can't be us.

In my opinion, the phenomenon is innate, born from textbook collective cognitive dissonance against incontestable feelings of inadequacy. This member had no reason to pin it on the Ahmadis...but he did, of his own accord. Take the Ahmadis out and they will lock on to another for another reason, then another, and then another. Meanwhile these momineen will remain the primary source of corruption in the land and the Deen. The religious and political "leaderships" are just vultures ready to commandeer it to serve their own heinous purposes.

Does feel good when you can piss on the grave stone of the only Nobel Laureate the country has produced, even if you can't read what's written on it.

That is however typical mob mentality - take this exact case. It is “feel good” - to wish for nuclear support or “billions” on what is likely a cart before the horse deal.

In either case blaming zionists, qadiyanis, indians or otherwise is more convenient than to address or allow anyone to highlight leadership incompetence or corruption.

After all, why would it not be convenient for a local land extortionist to collude with a local mullah to accuse someone of blasphemy to take their land?

Or for that matter, lets say a single dishonest person in the Qadiyani leadership in the UK is approached by GCHQ for inserting a mole they identified also as part of the sect in a sensitive area - now it’s a Qadiyani conspiracy instead of two compromised individuals within thousands of individuals who share a belief?

 

[RajaBaja]

You say migration is normal. Everyone moves. Fine. Then why does the World Bank record over 800,000 Pakistanis leaving in a single year? That is not a trickle. That is a flood. Call it what it is.

Your story about American defense engineers walking out and the project bouncing back in four weeks? Fiction. Sensitive aerospace projects do not reboot on coffee and apologies. The US has entire clearance systems precisely because replacing skilled teams takes years - maybe if you were actually familiar with the process . And on the off chance If your tale were true, it only proves how catastrophic losing an entire team is. Not how harmless.

You dismiss JF-17 and missile delays as fantasy. Convenient. Yet the Parliamentary Committee on Defence in 2021 admitted skilled shortages caused slowdowns. Chinese partners have complained about retraining Pakistani engineers. Those are official records. Not gossip.

You blame rote learning. You are right that universities push memorization. But explain this. If our engineers are so hollow, why do the same graduates thrive in Canada, the Gulf, or the United States? They succeed abroad because the environment supports them. Which means Pakistan loses trained talent the moment they become valuable. That is the definition of brain drain.

You claim everyone is replaceable. A clerk, yes. A neurosurgeon, no. An aerospace engineer trained at state expense? No. Pakistan spends tens of thousands of dollars to develop each PhD. When that person leaves, the country does not retrain in four weeks. It loses years of investment.

You argue population size protects us. That is sleight of hand. If headcount solved the problem, Nigeria would be a tech giant. Bangladesh would lead in aerospace. They do not. The IMF has flagged skilled emigration as a structural weakness in Pakistan’s economy.

Bedtime stories about replaceability or training gaps will not change the feathers.
It’s clear you made all of your post up to try and justify your need to argue to be right.

Making up personal experience and being dismissive of others shows someone purely incapable of actual discussion.
Starting to agree with @arslank01 assessment of you.

I provided you with the narrative and can easily provide you references by studies. Lets see what you can find to back yourself up. Probably nothing much like your military or strategic threads.

Take JamDs advice - it is much kinder than my opinion it this point.

Here we go. Can't address based on facts, so let's twist the topic and try to insult the person. And the entire political gang "likes" the post! Might as well put IK's pic on top of the reply to, so in case ANYONE hasn't gotten the drift, can see it clearly as to why this repeated propaganda is being generated.

Accusing me of somehow "scamming" this defense forum with my experience . I don't mind that at all, it's funny. I've proven myself in very big places across the globe many times. Trying to impress or establish "credentials" on a web forum is hardly envious for me.

On topic, give me 5 studies done on India, Pakistan and China please regarding brain drain and it's effect. And by credible sources. Let's see.

I've already stated my opinion on the topic. I stand by it. Nations with less population around or below 50/70 million or some plus/minus, with higher educated percentage leaving the country should use this term. Countries like Pakistan, India, etc, this doesn't apply. There is NO skillset that can't be replaced via proper training and talent. Yes, we spend resources on talent, but this talent is a "Brain Gain" if he or she goes to the US or UK, makes it to the top (which Pakistanis barely make sadly), or, becomes successful at some business, helps Pakistan and Pakistanis in creating more opportunity. That's how Indians and Chinese have done so much for their nations. We can do it if we can get out of "my di*k is bigger than yours syndrome" like this thread. If we can unite for our nation, we can do wonders overseas too.

Also, elaborate for me what's the US's clearance system you referred to. The way you wrote about it, tells me you don't know anything about what you wrote and it was more like an "impress others" statement to fool people. So do clarify it. Remember, those who know, can't be beaten by google content or AI generated details. I'll ask you operational questions afterwards that one would ONLY know when worked in those areas. So please explain.

Lastly, I've seen it many times in my life, that, a team is either lost to a competitor over a few weeks, or, a team walks out because vendor negotiations failed (yes, the entire team), or, government decided to terminate a program or terminate people in quantity due to unethical actions. I gave you 4 use cases here from practical life. But from your post, like that other genius Arslan, it's obvious you guys don't have that high exposure into executive management, so naturally you'll speak from your own experience base, that's natural. What you don't know, you don't know. Us Pakistanis think "we know everything". So kindly share the things I asked above. Thanks.

 

[mythbuster]

Yes, some observers claim they want a subdued (or even undone) Pakistan having soft borders (or no borders) so that these people can have free access to their 'sacred' places in India just like Sikhs have to Kartarpur in Pakistan.

Qadianeys are interest group and sect , 2 in 1...... Jews are their role models.

 

[Oscar]

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Trump making Bibi do anything will be a sight to see

 

[r3alist]

What pull, Turkey had that India doesn’t have?

Turkey is more relevant in South Asia than India

How about that for pull

What about the pull capability of Pakistan?

Seemingly quite decent.

I guess we can compare the pull of the respective air forces huh

Modi has been given highest civilian award by almost each and every ME country. And they didn’t give it out of kindheartedness.

No, they give a trinket to people susceptible to flattery

Long may it give you solace